The public response to India's decision to sever ties with Turkey is predominantly negative, highlighted by concerns over India's foreign policy being weak, unreliable, and strategically flawed. Critics point out the potential economic and strategic impacts of the boycott, considering such actions as jingoistic and potentially detrimental to India's interests. There is an ongoing debate regarding India's non-alignment policy and its international stance, with commenters worried about diplomatic isolation and inconsistency in foreign relations. The decision is seen as symptomatic of broader issues within India's international relations strategy, intertwined with the geopolitical dynamics involving China, Pakistan, and neighboring countries.

India

Turkey

Nah what actually happened to us? Nothing. Russia got sanctions for the attack on Ukraine. Have even turkey or Azerbaijan sanctioned us? As to whether we will have direct support for fight. We didn’t need it it turns out. Pak probably needed the drones which I doubt turkey gave for free. Every single country gave a statement which read ‘we call for de escalation between India and pak. We also condemn the attack on the tourists in Pahalgam’. Even china gave a statement more or less like that. That’s quite telling on who they actually support. We technically attacked parts of a foreign country. Yet afaik no body has condemned that attack. Not even the taliban or the GCC countries. That speaks to who is actually being supported in this 

No one is going to support anyone else In a fight with troop support unless there’s something in it for them. We support Israel but do we send our troops to fight for them? Then how can we expect Israel US or any other country to do the same?

zabardastbandawast

If you are a big country, no one would support you lol, that is some dream. US gets support from UK and EU because look what they do for them. Why would anyone support India who could become a future rival?

Specialist_Offer_511

India is a meek country. It never allied with anyone neither the Eastern Bloc nor the West. Why would anyone want to back such an unreliable partner?


Despite being part of BRICS, India is seen as a weak link against the hegemony of the West, mainly because of its reluctance to support bold changes to the world currency system. India doesn't want to rub the US the wrong way.


India wants to reap benefits from both the West and the East. But in times of real need, this non-alignment won't work. You have to take a bold stand to show where your true relationships lie.


Look at North Korea, Iran, and Russia they openly opposed the West and were hit with crippling sanctions. But China and Russia still back them, because they took a clear stance.

HotConsideration95

Yes, our foreign policy is pretty shitty. We don't want to stand with anyone and then make picachu face when no one wants to stand with us. We want to shout at Canada for not showing credible evidence about our alleged involvement in assassinations but we want to whole world to believe what we say about Pak's involvement. We don't want to stand with EU when our buddy Russia attacks Uk and we want to benefit financially from the war, but we want EU to take our side. We don't want to fully align with US to counter china but we want US to align with us to counter China/Pak. 

We have had issue with every one of our neighbors. We have burnt goodwill in SL, BD and Nepal. We have tried to bully many smaller countries and now we are surprised why no one wants to align with us. If everywhere we go it smells probably the problem is us. India has to do a introspection and spend time correcting course.

stuputtu

Yes. Of late, we have managed to burn bridges with half of our neighbours.

We have pissed the entire EU block by dealing with Russia.

Furthermore, we have allowed China and Pakistan to get closer than they were ever before.

And due to the RW IT cell spamming every Israel Palestine post with inhumane comments during the past two years, we have totally destroyed our image in  the eyes of global media/public.

vyomafc

You got to factor in the differences in India and Pakistan. Many countries support the underdogs because they see any big power as a threat in the long term, that is the reason why the West hates China now, it is perceived as a threat. Nobody wants India to become another dominating force and would like us to be a quiet docile nation that is perfect for them to offload the polluting industries to and a market for them to shove their goods into. I wonder how is it any different from colonialism because Britain pretty much did the same thing by making their colonies produce rice and indigo and cotton (all the pollution) and then have it manufactured there and again dumped in their markets.

gorgeouspuppers

All our neighbours are against us. Pakistan and china obvious. But we have added Nepal, Sril lanka, Maldives and Bangladesh to it. We could have good one with iran but we did blunder. After what we did to Mangolia , no country is ready to trust us. And in name of snuggle to USA we have sorta alienated Russia. In IMF meeting NO nation was absent with india to protest Pakistan. They even gave money to pak.  I don't think I can name even a one country whom I can trust to support India right now.

Sad-Engineer4826

Yes, it's been super weak tbh. As the saying goes, it may be dangerous to be America's enemy, but to be America's friend is fatal. And we shouldn't have alienated China purely because China and Pakistan allying can only be bad for us as China still has a lot to gain with Pakistan for their Belt and Road strategy, while it's a massive hit for us if they do. 

US, despite us strongly allying, as you can see still hands out loans even now via IMF to Pakistan and treats them and us equally - which is a major strategy/diplomatic fail IMO. Diplomatic relations/foreign policy is important especially when it comes to tackling situations like what we're facing right now. We should sort our shit out wrt diplomacy and focus on building our nation like China did.

boisickle

The fact that other countries didn’t outright start blaming us and tried negotiating itself is a huge win according to me. Else there would have been some strong condemnation etc etc from all countries for India by now.

N1z3r123456

It's amazing what India has achieved in recent years. Even a Hindu country like Nepal doesn't get along with India anymore.

xhaka_noodles

Boss when you get caught trying to murder US and Canadian citizens on their own soil, it will come to bite you at some vulnerable point in the future. 

RAW is inept when it comes to Western countries if they are sending amateur guys to conduct extra judicial killings.  Modi's chest thumping Vishwa-duffery only sells in India, the rest can see through the facade.

homosapienmorons

China and Turkey are arms/defense equipment manufacturers. They show interest only to conduct business whenever pakistan is in conflict. Then we thrash them, and for these manufacturers, they save their business by supporting and spreading a certain narrative, which is perceived to some level as support for Pakistan.

As someone mentioned, we have now sort of entered the big players league in the last few years. Asking for support, little power projection, dependence on other countries can be seen as a weakness and can be exploited.

Lastly the government of Pakistan has to make their people believe that they are supported by other countries which then becomes a justification for the fake "victory".

pomegreynade

I have a mixed feeling about this tbh. Yeah sure you want others to come in your support but also I feel like support comes in open when you are weak. India didn't want any intervention when dealing with Pakistan and that's what happened. US also kept out until very end(whatever nuclear site attached theory is). India wanted to treat Pakistan like it's bitch and didn't want to see anybody else in-between. It was also proved that we don't need any support from others while treating Pak like our little bitch

No-Establishment3367

Nationalism is the answer, the government must be tough on the outside world in order to be recognized by nationalists, and India has no shortage of nationalists. That's why India is so isolated in geopolitics

FancyChinese

Western nations learnt their lesson by supporting China in the past and they look at what China has become today. They don't want to repeat the same mistake with India.

Ill_Tonight6349

We haven't been able to delineate inner political and hardlined agendas away from the international narrative.

Raj_Valiant3011

Nah, our policy has been neutral.
Neutrality doesn't get your friends.

Pakistan will align with anyone for money/religion.

Check your own friends circle - how many friends do you have who won't go an extra mile for you if you spent the money? Pakistan is that friend who will for some free snacks and support. 

You know the friend who doesn't have the budget to go to goa so you pitch in so that you have 4 people to go together. pakistan is that poor friend.

Cool_Drummer_5511

Let’s be clear, Israel was never under threat. They are merely a European settler colonial project that actively displaces and oppresses the indigenous population. Radicalism is a natural outcome to peaceful means being oppressed and witnessing the slaughtering and imprisonment of your families and friends growing up. The real terrorists will always be Israel.

theblyndside

For eons, we maintained a non aligned status minding our own business. Slow and steady growth which was beginning to show fruits of all the efforts that had been put in to build indias stature.

Then came an asshole who started sucking up to the US while maintaining a relationship with Russia as well. The confused as fuck asshole then joined the BRICS movement targeting the US while making statements against everyone that mattered at time to time.

Now we stand in isolation around the world where everyone has figured out that this bear hugging piece of shit asshole is not reliable at all.

gumnamaadmi

India did 3 things wring.

Try to enforce hedgemony in the region when they are not remotely in a position to do so.

They made matter eirst by deploying airspace and voilating other country sovergienity. Obviously you turnred to be an aggressor and thus will be isolated on global scale.

We turned our long time allies like france and canada into a neutral if not enemy country.

Israel, U.S and UAE are just american proxies in Middle east and how much atrocities and pain they have inflicted in this region out there sheer greed for resources and money by killing innocent people and bombing countries its pretty evident pakistan would aeitch side to someone more accessible.

China has the means and resources to support pak and they can certainly have the hedgmonical stature in next few years. 

Our diplomacy id shallow and vague and more based on social media post than actual geopolitical nuances.

This so called operation "sindoor" if its means anything than just a PR and an escaping mechanism or saving grace for army and politician turned out to he a disaster as we not only lost important aircrafts but also loose our soft power on global stage

Parking-Spray2

Non-alignment policy might also contribute to this

no1bullshitguy

Short answer - Yes. Long answer - Hell Yeah.

DryBicycle5629

Do you see India supporting Russian and Israel in their respective wars for anything apart from support during UN votes.

You would see the same thing in return.

Every one of these countries is holding a gun and a flower against and for their "allies". The stronger you get, the word ally keeps getting weaker and starts converting into being seen as dominance.

If India has indeed done the level of damage that we have seen us proclaiming, we are no more just allies, we are looked as someone that can turn the tide in case of choosing sides globally. So, to make sure that we are grounded and don't fly too high too soon, the US and Russia (though our allies on TV) have remained silent - plus it also becomes awkward for enemy (US-Rus) powers to support same side.

I would say it's too early to say anything, the impact of this operation will be felt in coming months of diplomacy.

ronyx86

India can never be as crooked as the Chinese. 

Also, Irony is, All the so called Islamik countries are bunch of hypocrites.

Like Turkish people are very racist and anti immigrants. They don't like black or brown skinned people. Or people who can't speak their language. 
(Unless one is like super wealthy or famous).

But when it comes to geopolitical issues they always support Pak. 

Same goes with Malaysian people they hate Bangladeshi, Pak dark skinned Muslims. Police brutality is common against dark skinned people. They even use Bangla as a slur. 
But if someone is super wealthy all is pardoned. 

But again Malaysia recently they supported Pak over us. 

So the important thing to do is make our country stronger. We need better leaders and people who refrain ad hominem and concentrate more on overall development of country. 

No more budget compromise on education, research, education, defence and security of citizens.

waryinsomnious

India works closely with the USA, although it’s done without much fanfare and noise.

SuperannuationLawyer

Indians foreign policy has not changed a bit since past, only thing changed is India has become more assertive. 

If India wants to be a global power, it has to deal with its own problem. The two countries that generally helped India in the past are fighting their own wars. 

The difference between past and now is, it was a clear cut divide during cold war and now it's a tangled web of mess.

longhornfinch

Muslim countries support each other regardless of their actions. It doesn't matter if they are rapists or terrorists. India is 100% backed by Russia and Israel but we weren't in a situation dire enough to ask for their financial/militarial help or even a statement. As far as the US is concerned, they learnt their lesson from China. Not repeating the same mistake with India.

Slimy_Cheese998

Relationship with Turkey goes back to the khilafat movement days. One wouldnt think do, but China, So Korea, and Singapore owe a lot to Pakistan for their growth. And the top: Indian FM ‘shankar things too highly of himself - arrogance is not respected

Healthy-Pear-299

Russia is more than "no permanent friends- only shifting interests" tho.


For Russia, surrounded by NATO, India's support and favor is a huge plus point along with weapon market and economic cooperation...I personally think favoring Russia sometimes might be for our best interest than being neutral always.


For Israel, it is common threat but it is also kinda cultural..our history, travesty among others brings both the countries closer.


Which is why I believe that pak-china or pak-truck relationship is more superficial than what they portray.

LogicalAndBased2

Idk what are you talking abt. Israel, Russia and France explicitly told we had the right to defend ourselves. It is, In a way, approval for our actions. The biggest support from the USA we can get is them not involving and it was working, JD vance simply said not our business, but shit hit the fan when he attacked the nur khan and sarghoda base. I suspect USA has some strategic importance there. The Arab countries didn’t condemn our actions. 

So yeah, when we are fighting Pakistan, them not condemning us is support in itself. Pakistan was rag dolled in the closed door unsc meet too apparently. 

Since we are not ‘allies’ with anyone, no one would completely put their support behind us. Except for Israel I guess

Soggy_Ad_4612

People, Ik we all have many questions and some thoughts, about all of what’s happened in past few days. 

But i don’t think we should be discussing these so soon. 

Still the fog of war/battle has not settled yet, the military battle may have ceased but the narrative and information war is still ongoing, we shouldn’t be talking about these things as of yet IMO. 

We should be focused on pushing our narrative forward.

We have actually won this battle, and that beggar is claiming that they’ve won and sadly their narrative is getting ahead of us. And these kinda discussions are only gonna fuel their narrative to move more ahead. 

Obviously time will come maybe after a month or two when the dust settles and world has kinda forgotten about this, then we should be talking about these things. Questions must be answered by the govt they cannot escape it, at the end of the day this country is still a democratic one, and they are bound to answer the questions. 

But in my opinion this is not the right time to raise these questions.

69cartman69

The bear hugging modi enjoyed was because of the hard work of the previous government, that had laid the foundation. But this government is extremely incompetent, bunch of morons!! I am sorry,
Let’s do some deep soul searching.

Alert-Key-1973

It’s not about how many countries supported India or Pakistan, it’s all about the perception and narrative. Before the war - the narrative that was peddled day in and day out was the rise of India and Modi as a strong influencer on the international stage, viswaguru. But the recent battles show where international politics lie and how much influence India has. 

At the end of the day you are on your own, however perception and your ability to present narratives to influence that perception is equally important.

No-Leopard7644

West hate India -  Russia relations 

They openly say to quit Russia relationship 

In the end they just need India as their vassal

Loud-Sherbet-2404

India got private support from Israel and Russia. S-500 will be jointly manufactured soon and Putin is visiting India, which should speak volume. Public support from Israel would stain India's relationship with muslim countries, the same from Russia would result in public outrage in western countries

So no, India's foreign policy is doing fine. But we should retaliate against Azerbaijan and Turkey by recognizing Armenian Genocide. It will show them their place. (Fun fact: Turkey, Pakistan and Azerbaijan are the only countries that completely deny Armenian genocide)

nrkishere

You can’t be friends with everyone. Geopolitics is very tricky.

Nervous_Principle205

India's biggest issue has always been not just outright befriending it's fellow Asian countries. Specifically China. Don't get me wrong I know the whole thing is not really our country's fault but we already export huge amount of products from China anyways (so does the entire world) we're literally neighbours and two of the most populated countries in the world. India also have access to two oceans that can be leveraged to strike an even better friendship with China. We really could benefit from forgoing the past and accepting them as allies because let's be honest, defeating them is never gonna happen with the way they secretly control trade with an iron fist rooted in literally every industry. If the two countries worked together USA would definitely have to watch out. I mean the sheer man force alone would be able to achieve such huge results and that's exactly what the west does not want.

Memoirsofswift

Yes, the Modi administration has a very transactional view of the world and has not nurtured consistent relationship with any faction. Most of it's relationship with other countries are around weapons (Israel, Russia) or economic gain (Qatar business, Russian oil). In fact inspite of subscribing to a Hindu nationalistic ideology India under Modi has very poor relationship with Nepal the only other hindu country on the planet. Nepal is more aligned with China. That is proof of how poor Modi's foriegn policy is.

I think at the fundamental core the right wing nationalists don't know what they want. They claim to want a multi polar world where India is a super power and one of the poles. talk about de-dollarisation to achieve this aim. Try and assassinate American citizens in America without telling the American government because India does not care for American power. But then when war happens act like a damsel in distress and wonder why they don't support us.

If India wants world support India will start having to pick sides. If it stands by the side and remains neutral in other conflicts nobody will come in to support India when it needs help.

As for China, they have never been interested in being friends with India. They have a strong relationship with Pakistan and swayed many other south asian countries like Sri lanka to their side. india is just an obstacle for them.

MindlessMarket3074

The Indian populace and leadership don’t really have an understanding of deep alliances with strong obligations and long-term ties. Maybe the biggest consequence of the non-aligned movement.

placeknower

Turkey Azerbaijan - ummah is ummahing. nothing to see there. China sees itself as the next great power and wants to keep India in check. Plus CPEC is necessary for them as they cant depend on strait of malacca for trade in case of a future war. The only real threat to CPEC corridor can come from India so they will support Pakistan. Israel supports us because it knows pakistan provides "support" to palestine. In fact Israel wanted to destroy Pak's nuke program in the 1980s.

Coronabandkaro

India has to buy weapons, do trade in equal proportion with USA, Europe, Russia and China

OR

Go with Russia. Support them for every damn thing. Don’t press that neutral button in UNSC or WHO or wherever it is.

Dinstl

Indias problem Big but internally divided (more energy spent on having internal issues such as corruption sorted and fight communal elements)

Dependence on west for most tech (a few domestic innovations, but not in a scale where we can stand upto the West, China)

Hinduism and thus India is perceived as arch enemy by Muslims (large Ummah countries from South Asia to Central Asia and North Africa)

Not being part of any block in the past, although we boast of non alignment, that policy set us back in gaining trust of super powers

Delhi_3864

It's nothing to do with diplomacy. In the world economy there is no true friend, it's all business and religious alliance.


China - &gt; we threaten their investment in pakistan and trade  access to Asia. Don't misunderstand that they fear india or something. They see india as weak as we see pakistan. They are way bigger and they want to keep us in check with us via proxy which is pak.

Us -&gt; pakistan and Bangladesh are equally important for them to counter china but at the same time they have investment in India . So choose to be neutral.

Russian: busy in their own affairs and can't afford to be involved in extra. 

Now the puppet counties to us and  china will follow what their master follows .


Their 52 muslim countries which either support  the Muslim brotherhood or remain neutral but never against the Muslim brotherhood. 


Which is pretty much the whole world. No country available in the world to support India.

saand_asur

We attacked pakistan, didn't provide proof of Pak involvement except: " Because I said so". Ofcourse it wasn't baseless, we have history but it was pretty much our word against their's. They called for an "independent inquiry" which we pretty much ignored and let loose some missiles on what we claimed to be terrorist infrastructure (again, not baseless) but they claimed we attacked civilians. Nobody batted an eyelid, they just said, "de-escalate". So no, while the west may not be that invested in south-east asia because the problem doesn't spill over to them, we were the aggressors and walked out of it with our heads held up high. 

We also suspended the Indus Water Treaty with impunity - and that's a win. We have a massive bargaining chip now :)

Able-Aide-8909

As long as you have jingoist EAM and Feku PM who goes to every country to further Adani business, nobody will take us seriously

mannykalsys

One thing is for sure, China won’t target us else US would pitch in. It sure won’t want to have China playing superpower when Russia is already there. It will need someone to neutralise.

Previous_Motor6720

India has always followed the policy of Non Alignment. Meaning we don’t take sides in any conflict. It worked for us in the 60s and 70s as we could work with Russia and US and seek their help to develop our country but In today’s situation it becomes dicey. We are slowly moving away from Nonalignment but it will be a while before we see any major impact.

We do have strong support from our international partners but it is just not vocal.

a220599

Because talking about foreign policy pls look into your security and intelligence policy.   Your security and intelligence policy is so bad that it couldn’t prevent those attacks.

Dark-Knight-Rises

well this is the result of being "neutral". You wont have that many conflicts but you also wont have true friends in dark times either. India tries to play all sides so of course when there is conflict in india the sides that get played dont have an interest to stand up for india. And honestly this was clear years ago.

squidguy_mc

The fact that India, even after the Cold War ended, solely relies on Russia (itself an almost total pariah state)  to be its only BFF and ride or die should tell what a colossal failure its FP is.

watermark3133

Not just that. The Quad didn’t say anything. Trump just blew away 25 years of diplomatic work. Who see how Jaishankar will spin this 🤷🏼‍♂️. I bet he won’t be at anymore seminars!

2013bspoke

India needs to Progress, Prosper then profess. One thing that is abundantly clear is that the west doesn't see us as a natural ally because our skin is not white. 

Other medium and small nations are mostly within the orbit of the west or somewhat in the orbit of China. So they take cues from either of them before they put their policies/statements through. Russia is all weather but be complex equations can test that relationship as well. 

We need to rapidly progress and prosper for us to have leverage, for others to have a reason to give a damn. Our piousness is not leverage, the purity of heart is not leverage, our aid during times of need, our message of global unity, none of that is leverage.

The world put us, and the vile and rouge pakistan state in the same platform. US, despite having killed osama within pakistan, after they swindled billions in the name of anti-terror initiatives, referred to India and Pakistan as if we are equals.  One can see from where Pakistan is getting that leverage. (hint, why IMF gave them the 25th bailout)


WE HAVE TO GET BETTER! WE HAVE TO CREATE LEVERAGE. WE HAVE TO GET STRONGER. WE ARE ALONE IN THIS. WE'VE ONLY GOT EACH OTHER, MY BROTHERS AND SISTERS.

venom_blood

We also end up with a lot of chest thumping (one particular person) and the world has started to notice. Pakistan asked for independent inquiry into the Pulwama attacks, India denied, why? This was our chance to humiliate Pakistan at global level considering Modi had 100% accurate information that Pakistan was behind this. Pakistan openly admits its loses and pays tribute to the fallen soldiers, why is India unwilling to accept loses and pay respect to the fallen? We are always over confident and treat Pakistan like they are easy to beat, they took down our airplanes the last time and also caught our soldier alive. Lets not even get to the media which made matters so much worse by spreading all the false news it could. Lastly, Modi made people forget about the real 4 terrorists who took innocent lives and are still roaming free somewhere. He nicely covered the security lapse. Watch his old videos as a opposition leader and see how he put the entire blame on the ruling party for the terror attacks. 

So yes, the world is not stupid, if anything it made Modi realize that we have to change our current strategy, we do not have a lot of friends as we thought or assumed there would.

shaild

India is just entered in the next phase of the journey of becoming a developed country.

No country wants to deal with one more superpower in the equation!
 
Now we are going to face more heat and drama from international politics, until we reach a position which has a huge impact on the international market like US and China.

China and the USA are going to really test us!

Weird-Section-5056

I mean there was an international arrest warrant against Netanyahu and Putin of I'm not mistaken.

If other countries jump in they become part of the war, recall the events that triggered world war 1, the assassination was just the light, the fire that came after was each country coming out in support of each other. 
In any conflicts over the past couple of years India has, at least not openly, taken any sides, we have our allies and trade partners. 

If nothing else it should be a reminder to us Indians that is ok to be friendly with everyone, but when it comes to us becoming a developed India we have to strive for self reliance and give dignity and respect to all nations who consider us their friend.

Low-Self2513

China doesn't have strong Islamic culture lol. They pretty much locked up a bunch of Muslims (Uyghurs) and use them as forced labour.

Squirtle8649

Honestly, we live in a rather unfriendly global neighborhood, and our refusal to take sides hasn't helped much. 

We know the usual rivals, Pakistan, China, Bangladesh. 

Nepal works with both China and India. And they're also too weak to be any real ally. 

Bhutan is the same, but they do like us a lot. 

Sri Lanka is too much into debt with the Chinese to be of any real consequence. 

Russia is too busy with the Ukraine War, plus they're also going to be indebted to the Chinese by the time the war ends, so they're also not an ally. 

The USA has strategically undermined us for decades with their support of Pakistan. While the attitude is definitely shifting towards us, I'd say it's not there yet, and Trump is the most unreliable person to call upon as an ally. Europe also wants to be our economic partner, but they won't stand with us for our defense. 

Our neutrality works against us, because while we don't harbour any outright animosity towards most countries, that also means that we don't have any outright alliances as well.

KinTharEl

&gt; In the past, even Arab countries like the UAE and Saudi Arabia supported Pakistan. But now, they’ve become more pragmatic. They understand the consequences of Islamic extremism and terrorism, and they prefer to maintain neutrality rather than take sides.

Erm ... Saudia Arabia funds or has funded Salafists in particular. Or the new syrian "government". So, nah - they are definitely all but neutral.

&gt; In geopolitics, there are no permanent friends—only shifting interests.

Depends on the alliances. I'd say that the EU is kind of having permanent friends for the most part with other EU member states, give or take. But indeed large countries rarely have true permanent friends.

shevy-java

Yes, Indian foreign policy is absolutely classless. Vote modi out and bring in a leader who’s a bit more presidential and can handle foreign affairs on their own without memorizing any scripted speeches or performative hugs. Someone who’s a a natural leader and can hold their own in a global village that the world has become in the last 50 years.

SituationSerious1589

India while it had nehru or even mms as the pm would have negotiated diplomatic relationships far far better that the idiot narcissist who has gone around making things far far worse. Even when he was doing Europe a favour by buying Russian oil for cheap to refine and export to Europe while allowing European leadership to posture about boycotting Russian oil in solidarity with Ukraine, Europe hasn't shown any kind of gratitude. Forget siding with India right now, even before this, they haven't shown any kind of favorable treatment to India in trade, security etc. I would call it a monumental diplomatic failure to not be able to get the bare minimum after literally helping them avoid choosing between keeping their economies from tanking or losing elections due to wrath of their electorates. 


As for Saudi Arabia understanding the consequences of Islamic extremism and terrorism, that is a monumental joke. They are at the root of it all. They're just pragmatic about now overtly owning it anymore, and letting countries like Pakistan take the blame. They continue exporting the most extremist forms of Islam like wahabism, providing massive funding and propaganda support. Forget hating the kafir, many sunnis of the subcontinent now hate the very sufi peers their past generations worshiped because the Saudis have them convinced that the sufis are heretics. Violent jihad is very much part of the discourse of salafist movements like the one controlled and funded by the Saudis. So yes, they're not overtly supporting Pakistan, but they are very much responsible for terrorism. If you can't even acknowledge that, you can't even begin to think about solving the terrorism problem. 

charavaka

Yes Indias foreign policy is bad. We have 0 PR, our embassies around the world are so tiny, they look like huts. We don’t have a strong image

Over_Station_8944

Islam has nothing to do with this; Islam does NOT promote terrorism. This just shows the level of ignorance you possess. 

Find me ANYTHING in the Quran/Islamic source of AUTHENTIC reference that promotes harming the innocent????

Every religion has bad people. This is such a shit kind of generalisation you're making. Since when has China supported Islam? They have nothing to do with it. They'll just oppose whatever side the US or India is on, and Pakistan has a lot of military strength.

I can list a million terrorist attacks from every religion, i've even studied religious conflicts, but if someone straight up says, "Jews have been indoctrinated terrorists since 1948", or "Christians are brainwashed idiots who can't even decide on the rules of their bible", you're going to fight back, because these generalisations have no way of being true; and they aren't.

Say what you want about a culture, but leave religion out of this. Religion is a concept of love and peace, and even if the people in the spotlight don't show it, it's nobody's place to bring down or slander the religion.

And the USSR was COMMUNIST Russia. Headed by that idiot STALIN. A totalitarian despot who killed nearly half the population. Why would people want support from a place that would be struggling from within itself?

Gold_Meaning3688

Buddy, the UAE and Saudis are the handlers of various terrorist organisations plaguing the world.

Pakistan’s terrorist organisations are almost entirely focused on India and Afghanistan that serves their own political purpose. Such as their joint US policies like ‘Operation Cyclone’ responsible for the destruction of Afghanistan.

Tall-Objective-7839

West helps Pakistan partly in the fear of them being exposed for all the bs they have done / been doing in our region, and also to keep India in check. 
They didn't like us being close with the Russians, on one hand they want someone to compete with China, and on the other hand they don't want India to become the next China, India is no one's lap dog so they can't pull their strings whenever they feel like it.

railagent69

In geopolitics there is no permanent friend or foe

sun_13B

AbhilashHP

The most fucking naive take on “international relations”. Koi tumhara saga nai hei, tumhara khud ka desh tumko daily basis pe laat maar raha hei, and bro is worried about international image

Dig_Express

No. Don't believe in Congress/pakistani propoganda. Pakistan is an important nation for both china and US to keep us in check, that's a fact. Plus they have ummah support. Don't worry we're doing fine, no sanctions no repercussions for us for bombing the shh out of that inbred nation.

Nemesis4408

Wild_Possible_7947

You're the fourth-largest economy in the world. The USA publicly condemned the attack and silently supported us by being silent when we hit Bahawalpur and Muridke, right in the heart of Punjab. The next night, we targeted their bases from Skardu in the north to Karachi, including Rawalpindi. China responded in its usual and expected manner. Pakistan's claims of civilian casualties, including women and children, have fallen flat. There may be some temporary setbacks, but once the dust settles, everything will be managed effectively

TraditionalReport973

because world can see who is wrong in this conflict. 

So many red flags,
1. India failed to provide security to its own people. 

2. India start blaming Pakistan within 10 mins of incident without any proof. 

3. India rejecting neutral investigation. 

4. India attacking at mid-night when civilian are sleeping. 

5. India rejecting any down Rafael but slowly now accepting it. 

6. Despite, a 10-year kid is being killed they still claiming of attacking attackers with no condemning of kid death.

tab8612

It is bad, because :

1. You got hyphenated with Pakistan again, by the US. Despite all the Trump dosti &amp; support from India. He says both countries are his friends and won't even call them out on terrorism.

US or any western country didn't even call Pakistan out on terror.

2. China, Turkey siding with pak are expected. But this time even OIC did.

3. We were unable to stop the FATF money release to pak. Earlier our govt claimed they had put Pakistan in greylist with their diplomacy.


This govt mixed ideology with foreign policy :

4. Canada didn't even condemn the attack. Because our PM snubbed him during his visit to India. Just because Trudeau was a liberal. It spoiled relations unnecessarily. 
(they used excuse of khalistanIt is bad, because :

1. You got hyphenated with Pakistan again, by the US. Despite all the Trump dosti &amp; support from India. He says both countries are his friends and won't even call them out on terrorism.

US or any western country didn't even call Pakistan out on terror.

2. China, Turkey siding with pak are expected. But this time even OIC did.

3. We were unable to stop the FATF money release to pak. Earlier our govt claimed they had put Pakistan in greylist with their diplomacy.


This govt mixed ideology with foreign policy :

4. Canada didn't even condemn the attack. Because our PM snubbed him during his visit to India. Just because Trudeau was a liberal. 

(Govt used excuse of khalistan, but how did the khalistani person get visa to India, to attend Trudeau dinner?) 

5. Western countries don't like you because of your support to Russia, your lecturing and trolling by our 'laser-eye' foreign minister.

They would have understood if we just maintained relations w Russia, over oil and defense. But we did much more. 

We did joint military operations w Russia during the Ukraine war. Immediately next week there was a response from US, when they funded Pakistan with F16 upgrades changing balance of air power in the region,, made comments about kashmir from POK, and more.

You don't realize how , but how did the khalistani person get visa to India to attend Trudeau dinner?) 

5. Western countries don't like you because of your support to Russia, your lecturing and trolling by our laser eye foreign minister.

They would have understood if we just maintainer relations w Russia, over oil and defense. But we did much more. We did joint military operations w Russia during the Ukraine war. Immediately next week there was a response from US, when they funded Pakistan with F16 upgrades, made comments about kashmir from POK, and more.

You don't realize the current &amp; future consequences of your support for Russia.

6. Troll armies, biased media and biased intellectuals from India don't help give a very good impression either. We troll everyone, look at everyone with suspicion &amp; hostility. Then how can we expect them to help us? 

7. Bangaldesh is out of our sphere of influence. And it could become another open front for us to face attacks from, during a war.

whatev401

You need to understand a few things. The West doesn’t want India to progress. They want to use us but ensure that another super power doesn’t arise. China doesn’t want it. The Pakistanis are always going to use terrorism as a weapon against us. China and the West count on Pakistan to keep us in check. We’ve changed that dynamic in 48 hours. Ofcourse the western media is not going to like it. We’ve only always been able to rely only on ourselves. 

No our foreign policy isn’t bad at all it’s infact excellent and cohesive. We want to be friends with the world, we are and will  be friends with the world as long as they don’t harm us. What we won’t do is pander to interests other than our own. This is what countries that want vassals don’t like.

theEntreriCode

Apart from Srilanka, are there any neighbours we have good relations with at the moment?

srv05srv

See Turkey is also selling drones to Pakistan, and China is also giving weapons. So there's that. Foreign policy in my opinion , is being transactional with other countries. That's what India has always done. That is what is happening to us. What will we do with their support?

Messy_Monica

its as simple as underdogs get more support of the neutral audiences.

imsandy92

eliastms

The people complaining don't understand India's foreign policy. We practice non alignment and don't believe in allies. We don't trust USA, China, Russia, UK etc. We don't expect these countries to come to our aid in our conflicts vs Pakistan and China. Our foreign policy is working exactly as we expect.

None of these big countries can be trusted. China isn't helping Pakistan because they are allies. They are doing so to keep us in check and to get access to trade routes through Pakistan for cheap.

Our non alignment has allowed us to work with both Russia and USA while largely ignoring the Ukraine conflict. If we sided with Russia then we wouldn't be getting the foreign investment into our country that is crucial for growth. If we sided with the West then oil prices would go up causing high inflation especially in food prices.

Also other countries might be allying with Pakistan but look at how much they are investing in India. We have the potential for massive growth in the coming years as countries continue to increase outsourcing/investing in India.

mni_dragoon

Ambani Reliance recently launched China's Shein in India but no one has the gut to speak against them

EasyRider_Suraj

Until Turkish or international media acknowledges this, it’s hard to believe the impact.

Aader7

There is ao much competition if Udaipur won’t, someone will. Business me log opportunity ka wait hi karte rehte hai.

humbleqwerty

CrispyDick420

quickscoped_sniper

Emotional_lavdu

Is he seriously going to through away 18lakhs worth of tile that he already got

420kai

Sena deshbhakt hai isme koi doubt nahi, sarkar bhi hamari apni deshbhakti dhika chuki...ab desh ke har nagrik ka duty hai apni deshbhakti dhikane ka....apni desh k dushmano ka boycott aur usko jawab dene ka...hope bollywood wale bhi apni deshbhakti dhikaye

LG_Childhood2897

I can understand that these ppl are doing their bit. But for Turkey, currently this is not a big deal as we Indians are not their target customers for their travel industry: https://www.reddit.com/r/AskTurkey/s/LCLiIKqH9O

Also, India is not their top customer for marble. That's China and China is plenty happy with Turkey.

Although on a couple of fronts, Indians boycotting Turkey goods may not be a big deal, but if we come at it fr more and more angles, then every bit counts making a big impact. 

What is more important at the World stage right now about Turkey is that Putin refused to visit it for peace talks. India-Pakistan conflict is not yet registered in the world's eye by and large. It is as if the world politics is conspiring to get India and Putin on one page even if they are unwilling.

As others mentioned, in this conflict, Turkey is not the only country supporting Pakistan. To make an impact, Indian govt has to come up with a more organised approach to trade wars as well which I feel is an utopian wish on my part

Gloomy_Tangerine3123

It goes both ways. You are not selling products to certain countries. You are in return losing the money.

tall-glassof-falooda

Chinna provided them jets and missiles. But andh bhakta dara hua hai!!!

Fun_Coffee_9207

Yeh sab temporary hai. If Turkey and Azerbaijaan are affordable foreign destinations people will Rajshree travels the fuck out of them.

Sufficient-Can5785

Larkin Sarkaar Vyapaariyoo kaa saath Degi?! Nahi!!

Fearless_Chart_7136

I was getting a pair of socks for myself from decathlon when I saw it was made in turkey. After little more scouring, find pair of socks made in India and buy that one. I do the same with Chinese as well as Bangladeshi based products as well. 

Only in very rare occasions I tend to buy some chinese products.. like my oneplus phone which I actually ended up regretting. Should have gone with S24 ultra which was partly made in India but due to much steep in price.. ended up in getting a trash.

Otherwise-County-942

There is a Pakistani YouTube podcast channel called “The Pakistan Experience” which has done several videos on this topic with various guest interviewers. The points they raise very often are as follows:

1) During partition, the newly formed nation lacked Colonial era institutions in what is now Pakistan (although I don’t agree with this completely as Karachi and Western Punjab did have these). Also, before 1947, the entire Subcontinent was the largest or the second largest Customs Union in the world with free moment of goods and services from Afghan border to the Myanmar border. As partition took place the Customs Union was severed. Think a no-deal Brexit but on a more massive scale as the two nations also went to war against each other. This had a lasting economic impact on both Pakistan and Bangladesh as well as West Bengal and North East India.

2) Migration of large number of Urdu speaking people to Pakistan during Partition which led to creation of a new Pakistani identity and suppression of existing ethnic identities in regions which formed Pakistan

3) Most of the foreign aid and support in initial years was concentrated on Army because Army was the only modern institution Pakistan had in 50s (see point 1) which led to Army being overpowered and conduct coups.

4) From 1947-1971, the region that is now Pakistan which was then called West Pakistan behaved as a rent seeking state which survived on excess economic activity and exports of what is now Bangladesh which was then called East Pakistan which was then heavily subsidising investments in West Pakistan. This along with suppression of regional identities (see point 2) culminated in the 1971 war which cut Pakistan in half and took away the economically prosperous region out of the Federation.

5) Following 1971 war (and starting from sometime before it actually), Pakistani state engaged in what can be called - Geopolitical Rent Seeking. What this means is that the Pakistani leadership realised the significance of their geographical location with respect to USSR and China and the overall context of the Cold War and got economic assistance from US specifically to give US access to Pakistan’s territory for engaging in Cold War. This meant there was a literal money tree for Pakistan state to run its business, another money tree for the Pakistani army to run itself by seeking patronage form US and this led to them not needing to actually run the economy. This meant much of their economy also became a rent-seeking activity led by real estate and various extraction industries run on patronage of politician. There was no real
actual development of the productive part of the economy. And this continues to this day because a lot of Pakistani economy is still based on real estate boom. If you have land you don’t bother to build factory of manufacturing unit on it, just build a housing colony and sell it off.

6) All of this reached a perfect storm during the Soviet Invasion of Afghanistan where Pakistan sought an opportunity to extract geopolitical rents from the US and collaborated with US to run Jihad camps in Pakistan in exchange for money.

7) This led to radicalisation of Pakistani society which would have dire results going ahead. USSR was kicked out of Afghanistan which was then occupied by the Jihadist elements trained in Pakistan. By US, Saudis and Pakistan. They then first turned on the US and engaged in several attacks on American interests culminating in 9/11. 

8) 9/11 opened the next chapter in Pakistan and overnight they were asked by the US to turn on the same Jihadist groups in Afghanistan they had allied with which resulted in further radicalisation in North West parts of the country. Now Pakistan collected more geopolitical rents from the US once again as America sought Pakistani cooperation in the war against terror. This led to further destabilisation because several elements of Pakistani society were now ideologically aligned with the Taliban while the state supported US against Taliban.

9) After US found OBL in Pakistan, the Americans turned the tap of geopolitical rents off. This cut off of American aid led to disastrous consequences within the Pakistani economy. Thus, Pakistani economy goes through cycles - cycles of receiving American geopolitical rents when their economy booms - and cycles of not receiving it when their economy tanks. Their problem is that they did not build a stable economy during their boom period. Right now they are in a cycle where they are not receiving geopolitical rents from US. 

10) Pakistan have tried to cure the issue by joining the Chinese Road and Belt project. It remains to be seen how successful that works out. There are several reasons to believe that the Belt and Road project within Pakistan is basically Pakistan seeking more geopolitical rents, this time from China for access to the Arabian Sea and it won’t really stimulate the economy much because the infrastructure is geared towards connecting China to the Arabian Sea, not towards getting Pakistan to build industries within Pakistan. But, the jury is still out on this one and let’s see what happens.


In Contrast to all of this, India had to develop its economy from scratch without much foreign aid or support or preferential market access. This has meant Indian economy, especially from 1991 does not depend excessively on demand in the West (much of it is internal demand) and is hence more insulated from global crises (unlike China and East Asia) is not overly dependent on extraction of resources (unlike, say Brazil or Russia) and is not overly dependent on remittances (unlike Pakistan). This has led to India becoming inherently more stable because a lot more people have a lot to lose from instability. This has also meant the Indian army never reached the level of influence Pakistan army had in Pakistan.

Sumeru88

One actively suppressed the indulgence of military on politics while the other didn't

chaoticji

[deleted]

Pakistan is also doing far worse than Bangladesh, which up until 70s was part of Pakistan. What Pakistan have and India and Bangladesh don't have is a military acting as deep state. In India and Bangladesh, political class needs wide support to get into power (general public, buisness, beurocrats etc). In Pakistan they need only one support: generals. 

That means in India and Bangladesh, politicians need to get things done to get elected. In Pakistan they just need to appease generals and protect their priviliege. Sure politicians in all three countries are insanely corrupt and authotarian, but former two societies put restriction on ruling elites. You can take bribes for building bridge, but you still have to build it. Otherwise you're voted out.

BadenBaden1981

India is a country with a clear "positive" notion of identity, a vision of "Indian civilization" stretching for millenia across history. The country may be divided among untold nations and languages, but it has a certain abstract fundament of this kind, formed in the 19th century via the opposition of "us, in the British Raj" vs "them, British and therefore also Westerners, and the outside world". You have Sanskrit, Dharmic religions, Vedas, shared political tates across history, and in cade of Muslim minority - shared cultural practices and coexistence over 1400 years. Such framework helps to serve as a unifting factor and to sustain civic government, especially as India has been big enough not to really feel existential terror.


Pakistan historically had a "negative" identity: as an "Islamic not-India", Muslim dominated part of the Indian subcontinent, which split from the rest in a terrible orgy of violence at both sides. The unifying factor has been religion: Pakistan has been thoroughly delfined as an Islamic country (Islamic not-India), with little else to unify its major nations, being torn apart by the sectarian and fundamentalist factions. Of said nations, at least two (Pashtuna and Balochi) have developed violent and nonviolent separatist movements. On the other hand the comparative weakness of the country next to the Indian giant and being squeezed between it and the Afghan chaos helped a lot with the paranoid siege mentality of the powerful army elites - which are also largely clan-based, due to the cultural makeup of the region. 


So you end up with a bunch of ethnic groups who are not entirely happy of being together, united mainly by the ultra conservative strands of Islam, divided by a mess of tribal and clan systems, stuck between a 7x more populated mortal enemy, China, Iran, and permanent clusterfuck of Afghanistan, with a ton of Afghan fighters going across the border both ways for half century of war, with a history of terrible economic problems... Army and God are the only things Pakistan can rely on. 

LunLocra

[Half of pakistani exports are clothing.](https://oec.world/profile/country/pak#yearly-trade) [Indian exports are much more diversified.](https://oec.world/profile/country/ind#yearly-trade) Economies (like venezuela) are really price sensetive when theyre not well diversified, and clothing is a notoriously tough business to be in. Thats probably not the whole story but probably a decent chunck of it.

The major divergence in gdp[ per capita happened pretty recently](https://data.worldbank.org/indicator/NY.GDP.PCAP.CD?locations=PK-IN). around 2009-2014. So, maybe the fact that the US was winding down its middle eastern ops probably had a decent role to play in the present day instability.

Ambitious_Mess_4649

I have written a paper which covers this and blog on Indian national security, which includes Pakistan related matters.   
In summary:   
- Since 1991, India embraced economic liberalization, while Pakistan embraced radical Islam.   
  Every year thereafter India's GDP growth was more than Pakistan. Bangladesh's GDP has also   
  overtaken Pakistan, as the govt adopted economy friendly policies and discouraging Islamist   
  policies.    
- Pakistan is run by the army, which manages elections. The civilian govt only provides a veneer   
   of democracy. Defense expenditure takes a disproportionately high share of the budget.   
- A trade ban with India hurts their exports and increases inflation (of for e.g. Pakistan has a poor  
  wheat harvest and India has a bumper crop).   
Sharing an old but related post on Pakistan from my blog (on the CPEC trap).  
[https://rpdeans.blogspot.com/2023/07/pakistans-cpec-delusion-first-published.html](https://rpdeans.blogspot.com/2023/07/pakistans-cpec-delusion-first-published.html)

Dean_46

Tank_Top_Koala

India is severing educational, aviation, and trade ties with Turkey in response to its support for Pakistan during Operation Sindoor.

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