Public opinion is largely in favor of U.S. legislation aimed at enhancing Taiwan's communications security, expressing strong support for Taiwan's sovereignty. While many view this support as vital to countering China's influence, there is considerable skepticism regarding U.S. motivations and the effectiveness of the legislation, with fears that it may prioritize political interests over genuine support for Taiwan. Concerns also arise about potential conflict and implications for global supply chains, particularly in semiconductor production.

United States

Taiwan

China

I hope that bounty never gets collected. He deserves to keep spreading democracy.

Virtual_Bus_7517

FYI Yaya wasn’t just saying she wanted “reunification” — she hoped that the PRC would invade and people would die. That was her message.

TuffGym

wallingfortian

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[deleted]

No surprise. China lacks free speech. This is totally normal and expected behaviour from communist China.

thedalailamma

For ordinary people there, talking about sensitive topics like seperatism on a public channel is like skating on thin ice.

KerbodynamicX

Note, there are still plenty of Chinese Youtubers paid in Taiwan that support Taiwan being invaded by China.

Yaya called for taking Taiwan through bloody means. She basically called for the mass murder of Taiwanese to benefit the CCP. She was one of those "If it comes down to it, take the island not the people" kind of genocidal maniacs.

ShrimpCrackers

You will be the first person I will haunt after dying for shadowbanning me in r/dhaka.

ParsaHasan

Trump will sell out Taiwan the moment he gets on a call with Xi. He is weak for dictators. Just look at him with Putin. Musk already said Taiwan is part of China and is a huge allies to them with factories in China. These people cannot ever be trusted.

WTFvancouver

I mean Taiwan already IS independent. So the US saying it "doesn't support Taiwanese independence" is just misleading the public about what the status quo actually is. If they were to say something like "US doesn't support a formal declaration of Taiwanese independence" that would be fine, but spelling it out like that would of course "increase tensions".

shinyredblue

&gt; The United States will continue to support Taiwan’s meaningful participation in international organizations, **including membership where applicable**.

The bold part is also new.

miserablembaapp

There’s nothing to support “Taiwan independence” it was always independent to begin with.

Carlos_Crypto

I'm skeptical about how significant this really is on a deeper level, and will believe it when the US takes some sort of actual, unequivocal diplomatic action. Trump's threats to longstanding US allies has demonstrated US to be an unreliable global partner. To me, the tariffs seem to be Trump's attempts to strong-arm Taiwan into giving away Taiwan's strongest ace and bargaining chip on the global stage (I wouldn't be surprised if there is even more strong-arming going on in US communications to Taiwan and/or TSMC). To me, if TSMC proceeds on further developing its production capacities in the US and folds to Trump's bullying tactics, it will be an ungrateful betrayal to the Taiwanese people since they are the company they are today because of the initial and continued support of Taiwan's government (which includes Taiwanese taxpayer money). The US couldn't (and still can't) even deliver on a backlog of approved military equipment that is worth billions of dollars before Trump and some of his key US officials essentially threatened Taiwan or publicly expressed willingness to sell out Taiwan to China. If US wants to pursue a US first approach to the exclusion of the wellbeing of its longstanding allies, then Taiwan should also look out for Taiwan's interests to the exclusion of the US' wellbeing. This will mean increased focus and taking a more proactive approach to further repair relations with some key EU countries (France, for example, comes to mind). But let's be honest: Taiwan really should have made (or at least considered) this a top priority sooner (if it has made substantial efforts on this, please let me know - Taiwan's actions have thus far seemed pretty passive to me).


(Rant over. In addition to already not liking Trump, I'm also both Taiwanese and Canadian.Trump's unhinged diplomatic stances against both Taiwan and Canada and those who believe Trump is ushering in some kind of "new golden age for the US" through his diplomatic policies - or rather, lack thereof - has made me even more skeptical about US intentions and trustworthiness. If anything, Trump's claim that "other countries are taking advantage of the US" is a convenient distraction to US voters about the glaring problems of US corporatism, similar to CCP propaganda tactics that seek to stir up Chinese nationalism to redirect public anger to some source other than the CCP itself.)

So just curious, why do all of you who can't seem to get over TSMC think that the US has been helping Taiwan since the ROC [retreated] there? I'll give you a hint, TSMC didn't exist then. Taiwan is enormously more important strategically than Ukraine for the United States which is a maritime power, more so than a Continental power.

aaaltive

People are forgetting that Japan has been hedging defensive warfare for 80 years. Let me tell you all, they are more than  prepared to fuck up China by themselves if they fuck with Taiwan. I had insider knowledge 15 years ago. Japan is waiting for a reason.

darumapotato

Any country including statements against Taiwan independence is such an obvious compromise to CCP. It definitely displays weakness towards CCP.  Otherwise they needn't include it. No reason.   

The US has been so wronged by CCP for needing to include and repeat such statement for decades.

SkywalkerTC

And fyi, allowing this type of posts, while posts about tsmc potentially tariffed getting banned is again another reason why this sub is heavily censored towards a very pro independence side. 

MakeTaiwanGreatAgain

Hi folks— fellow person-not-living-in-Taiwan here. From the messaging, it looks to me like Trump is preparing to cut Taiwan loose in a deal with mainland China, because the ROC constitution makes claims about territories in mainland China that can’t be backed up 😮‍💨

EstablishmentUsed901

Scary moment. US wants Taiwan to have a war with China, then they can put all kinds of sanctions on China plus defaults all debts owing China.

Future_Recover1713

i don't think it means much by itself, they have been making changes to lots of websites, many with mistakes. this could have been an accident. 

Trump himself and the members of his admin also contradict themselves and each other everyday. can look at what they say about Ukraine as an example.

whereisyourwaifunow

For all those Taiwanese American voting for Trump...

Chigibu

Only fools believe Trump will help them. He only helps himself.

Yoongi_SB_Shop

They would sell out Taiwan just like they are doing with Ukraine if it benefited their pockets. Trust no one.

imironman2018

I am shocked Trump of "covfefe" fame has not actually mixed up Taiwan with Thailand in a presidential speech, to my knowledge. One would think he of all people could not resist cracking an unflattering "joke" about kathoey (กะเทย).

SHIELD_Agent_47

This means that China will make its move before the next president comes into the office and changes things back.

downgoesbatman

Very interesting.  If it is by mistake or someone edited it without formal approval.

txiao007

lol. If you people think that the US anre anble and willing to come to your rescues when the PRC comes for you….

No-Bluebird-5708

Everyone should actually read the article or at least the beginning. This title is very easily misunderstood without context……..

TUNEYAIN1

TuzzNation

People who think forcing the CCP's hand here is a good idea better hope the US is going to send their sons to die.

Savings-Seat6211

Tomasulu

Taiwan is the world’s source of semiconductor chips. You give up Taiwan, you give up electronics to China.

jha999

we’re already sending marines to Taiwan and Okinawa for training 

PlaneResident2035

Yeah, if we have learned anything is this is the pull before they let go for good. Fuckers.

nopalitzin

It’s a lot of nonsense. Because it still mentions the one China policy, and all the strategic ambiguity bs they regurgitate all the time, opposition of unilateral change, peaceful resolution that people on both sides accept. 
Taiwanese independence is an act of unilateral change, so anybody making anything out of this is delusional.

That’s the issue with electing new leadership every 4yrs. Change, dynamics. Times of turmoil make people desperate. And so the 🍊 was reelected after a resounding defeat to Joe. Kamala just couldn’t reinvigorate the populace that came out for Joe.

_chip

Wow. A permanent sino usa war.  Chicoms are the opposite of Mayor Adams.

tannicity

That's good news. Why is everyone in the comments shitting on Trump?

This reddit trump hatefest is getting old.

hiimsubclavian

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Surrounded-by_Idiots

You are mistaken.  The chip industry is a major strategic and security concern for the US.  Controlling the technology and distribution of semiconductors is a way the US keeps itself safe from our adversaries. 

We will absolutely bring the manufacturing this technology to the US.  But the manufacturing will be largely automated so the labor concerns will be on no issue.

I expect the us government to pay for the construction of the plants.

The issue has become the challenge of fighting China at such a long distance from our shores.  They have made it difficult to fight so far from home.  It will be difficult for us to defend Taiwan.

Competitive_Jello531

Interesting take. Your premise is that chip factories being overseas in Asia allows them to exploit the higher education pool and productivity conditions that the US doesn’t have and wouldn’t allow?

kjoseph91

&gt;The factory only promotes East Asians, supervisors frequently communicate in Mandarin rather than English, and American employees are often berated as lazy by supervisor.


Oh, how the tables have turned. The founder of TSMC hit the bamboo ceiling at Texas Instruments because he wasn't white.


It sounds like the East Asian workers are working harder and that is why they are getting promoted..


----
&gt;The reason? Taiwan's semiconductor industry relies on exploiting highly educated workers. That means making master's degree graduates work in 20th-century factory-style three-shift rotations, all while being subjected to the high-pressure, authoritarian Asian management style—where bosses act like "tiger parents," berating employees and issuing orders instead of fostering discussions. Additionally, there is an absolute responsibility system: in the event of an earthquake or natural disaster, employees are expected to immediately return to the plant to ensure uninterrupted production, no matter where they are.


TSMC engineers are in the top 1.5% of earners in Taiwan.


High earners in the United States deal with the same hours and working conditions as the engineers in Taiwan. This is nothing new. You want to drive the Mercedes and own three houses, you put in the work when it is required.


Yes, in the event of natural disasters or issues on production, they are expected to show up and fix it. The same is required by doctors and tech engineers in the United States. If a data center has a power failure at 3am, are you telling me they will ignore it to the next day?


No. Absolutely not.


----
&gt;Americans cannot and should not accept TSMC's labor conditions. But TSMC’s major advantage is that Taiwanese workers are submissive enough to tolerate this exploitation in exchange for high pay.


This is just xenophobic. Are doctors that are always on-call submissive? Are data center engineers in USA submissive? Or do you think only Asians are submissive?

Eclipsed830

the US has several key bits of leverage over TSMC. which is why they are moving (token) production to north america. 1: The Us designs the chips they build, 43% of all chips are designed in america. the next largest source is south korea. tiawan only designs 8% of their chips 2: the machines that are used to make them are also american. with 40% of semiconductor manufacturing machines being american compared to tiawans under 1%. 3: the high grade silicon itself is primarily from the area around Spruce Pine North Carolina. meaning that no one can make high grade semiconductors without America providing the raw materials

colepercy120

Plenty of American manufacturing companies work three shifts in order to operate 24 hours a day.  Americans command higher salaries, but this is largely offset by billions in CHIPS Act subsidies.  So your argument boils down to Asian management style being necessary for chip production.

Why should this be the case?  Asian management styles don't seem to produce real margin benefits in other industries.  Productivity per hour is better in the West than Asia, even if it's not better per dollar.  And there doesn't seem to be anything about semiconductor manufacturing that particularly demands this style of management.

So what's the real issue here?

ghjm

I'm gonna say this with the least amount of words:
Unless Trump makes a deal with China. I take TSMC's fab, you take the land. Adios.

azaz104

You’re right, the US won’t take the most advanced semiconductor manufacturing from Taiwan, but not for the reasons you think. 

That’s Taiwan’s competitive edge. If the US doesn’t need Taiwan any more, they won’t have any interest in defending them from a Chinese invasion any more. Taiwan doesn’t want that so they’ll use every tool at their disposal to make sure that TSMC keeps their most advanced processes at home.

tudorb

You’re talking about chip manufacturing like it’s some sweatshop where you can insert anyone to do the job. Because at 2nm chips that are iPhone 17, the EUV machine has to bounce a precision laser at 50,000/sec to make the chips…..so no because of the technical constraints even if you could convince non-Asians in Arizona to take on the work they don’t have the skill set to perform the work. So Donny can throw $100 billion, $1000 billion, $10000 billion at the process and it’s gonna be a decade before we master making the chips for iPhone 3G

bruindude007

The successful cultivation of talent is what makes any business profitable in the long term while the exploitation of competent and talented workers is rarely sustainable. 

Talent is still very much exploited in America, arguably to an even greater degree than in Asia, but it is arguably not as sustainable and all the real talent burns out more readily due to the fact that labor rights have largely been hijacked to defend the "peter principle" and employ people who simply cannot do what they claimed they can do. 

The only thing we would need to see economic success on American soil is to stop trying to deny the fact that some people are simply way more valuable than others in certain fields, and they should be treated accordingly.

The ruthlessness of bosses in fields which depend on talent and work ethic is arguably not just about exploiting competent laborers, it is also about keeping the poseurs/parasites off the payrolls. 

American culture regarding employment since the rise of neoliberalism is weird AF and David Graeber wrote a paper about "the rise of bullshit jobs" to illuminate the fact that we seem to reward charismatic but incompetent people while we enslave all the folks who actually create our wealth. 

I may be mistaken, but I am under the impression that highly demanding employers who are not under this American spell actually compensate their workers more accurately because they are allowed to tell useless people to GTFO.

An American employer pays a bunch of losers way more than they contribute and then takes it out of the  workers who actually perform. Ironically, they do this while claiming that taxes and social welfare by the government are bad ideas.

All this is to say that there is absolutely a possible route to success for high skill requirement American manufacturing. I am an American, and we largely agree on why American manufacturing jobs have been off-shored, and if we can agree on that, you should acknowledge that the probability of America bringing these jobs home is not absolute zero even if it is incredibly slim.

Gullible-Minute-9482

I feel like if mainland China invaded Taiwan is semiconductor manufacturing could overtake Taiwanese manufacturing. 

I've got my fingers crossed that doesn't happen but that's a whole other discussion.

Seiei_enbu

China will make it a warzone sooner or later. Why wouldn’t the US not want to secure a critical part of the supply chain of such a strategic good?

jellobend

Taiwan has expressed its own interest with moving away from Taiwan for the semi conductor business for several reasons,


- not enough land to develop for more semi conductors
- not enough capacity in existing to meet today's demands
- preparation for natural disasters, they sit right on the ring of fire
- goods distribution, apparently shipping costs have gone up enough to impact trade


I have probably not vocalized all the reasons Taiwan wants to expand or move production. Some of those are political but if you eliminate politics they have a lot of reasons to build more fabs already. 


US is very interested in TSMC building more fabs in the US.

1_H4t3_R3dd1t

I agree with the idea, but i think it has more to do with the fact that TSMC is at the bleeding edge of semiconductor tech and the americans are having a hard time just establishing their first plant, for relatively crude chips and even after they establish their chip FAB, they would then have to compete with the entire semiconductor eco system that already exists around TSMC where they've been working on chips for years vs... arizona

Super-Soyuz

You've to understand that 4-year delay is a live proof that you can’t graft Taiwan’s “human precision robotics” ethos onto a Western workforce. 

Even if TSMC somehow clones its culture stateside, the lawsuits alone will bankrupt their margins.

The US isn’t losing because of laziness. It’s losing because it values labor dignity over lithography dogma and frankly speaking that’s a tradeoff no subsidy can fix.

Ok-Funny-6349

TSMC plants are for when China tries to take you guys over.

Sleepcakez

Considering current politics.  
  
I would not surprised if China takes a swipe for Taiwan.  
At which point, good luck getting chips from there.  
  
We just flipped Canada and Mexico off.  
Dear bob, what a terrible position for a highly technology dependent nation to be in.  
As a IT sys admin, I'm really hoping we don't go back 20 years.

piedpipernyc

I disagree with the idea that the advantage lies solely on the local highly educated Taiwanese. 

TSMC also employs tons of non-Taiwanese contractors who definitely also get paid very little and that is likely something that cannot be replicated in America due to the labor laws that exist here. This cuts operating costs substantially IMO

Enchylada

It’s not about being more profitable or taking over the international chip market. The US wants to increase domestic chip production for national security purposes so that we can continue to produce weapons systems and other machinery when China inevitably decides to retake Taiwan by force. 

AcadiaWonderful1796

All it takes is a Chinese invasion and there is a good possibility Taiwan goes offline forever. Why do you think there is a US panic to onshore semiconductors, ATM?

The chance US will overtake Taiwan in semiconductors is reasonably high because of geopolitical risk to the island.

BrokerBrody

All you have to do is make it a six hour shift instead of eight and you’ll get tons of people trying to do that job. As far as masters degrees I don’t know.

Dizzy_Culture2846

You want the simple way? US sanction Taiwan, forbid sales and services of their EUV, how can Taiwan dodge that?

Lazy-Employment8663

All it would take is for ASML to change their view on who they want to sell lithography equipment to..

Livid_Breath_5585

If no American accepts the work conditions, the country will keep bringing more skilled immigrants. Producing semiconductors domestically is a matter of national security.

alkbch

or any other manufacturing. if employees cannot afford rent, they are unable to work.

sharkbomb

The documentary American Factory is very telling

drewskie_drewskie

Is it possible that less efficient plants, whether in the US or elsewhere, might still end up being more productive than Taiwan's?

RandyFMcDonald

US lawmakers have introduced bipartisan bills aimed at strengthening Taiwan's undersea communication infrastructure amidst rising tensions with China.

US Legislation on Taiwan's Communications Security

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