Public sentiment is largely negative regarding Netanyahu's military actions in the Middle East, with widespread criticism of U.S. support for Israel amidst allegations of human rights violations. Many commenters call for an end to U.S. funding and intervention, emphasizing perceived injustices and the need for accountability. However, there is some admiration for Israel's economic achievements and resilience, reflecting a polarized public opinion on the issue.

Netanyahu

U.S. Government

Trump

Palestinian Authority

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I can think of a couple of things at the top of my head:

- Advanced technology - Israel has some very unique and advanced weaponry tailored to the region, much, MUCH more advanced than its neighbors (mainly funded by the U.S., of course) and therefore are able to solidify their position much better than its immediate neighbors and punch many times above their weight. Combine that with a battle-hardened military and a population constantly fighting for survival on all fronts and you have a country that is very tough to take down. 

- Israel keeps a check on the U.S.'s most dangerous enemies in the region (namely Iran), mainly because of my first point. 

- Mossad - Their intelligence agency, while not omniscient, is still legendary. One of the best in the world. They are capable of stopping threats before they happen and have foiled many enemy attacks in the region. The intel they have on America's enemies in the Middle East is an actionable gold mine.

The benefits are mostly strategic/military but US influence in the Middle East would significantly weaken were it not for Israel. They are the best allies in the region.

swagonflyyyy

Waiting for a comment about something called "Judial-christian" values. No idea how thats defined.

thePope8918

They’re a strategic counter to the radical Islamic countries in the region. If Iran was to ever get nukes, Israel can take destroy them with no political blowback to the US.

Davec433

Israel has a 550 billion dollar economy, based on high tech hardware and software - with 50 billion in trade between the nations.

It is the highest concentration of tech startups outside of Silicon Valley, and most in computer security.

Israeli cyber security is so good I don’t even know where to start. Read about the Stuxnet case if you want your mind blown.

They have co-developed tons of next generation military hardware in joint protects between Raytheon / Lockheed Martin and Israeli counterparts - interceptor missiles, you name it.

You know how Jews are 0.2% of the population and 20% of Nobel prize winners? Yeah there’s that.

They are a strategic ally in a super hostile part of the world that provided enormous amounts of intel. Take a guess at where you might find the best Arabic speaking anti terror experts on the planet.

On top of that they’re an egalitarian democracy and support of them is just *right* morally. They’re an egalitarian democracy with strong cultural ties.

They may be a slight liability in our relationship with the surrounding Arab states. But real talk: the surrounding Arab states are regressive places whose only contribution to the world right now is what they dig out of the ground. And we in the U.S. are energy independent and moving to greener tech. We do not need to kowtow to them the way Europe does.

Kman17

With respect; this is surely a question that is better answered by research across history and politics rather than the commentariat of Reddit. 

It will be challenging to sift out accurate / reasonable information from the political viewpoints of individuals on both sides of a very politicised debate.

TheObrien

It's not strategic, it's largely political.

The USA's partnership with Israel is diplomatically disadvantageous, as support for Israel has pretty much killed the USA's popularity in the region. Though I don't think he ever was particularly interested in it himself, it's no surprise that when Osama Bin Laden called on Muslims to join together against the USA he used their support for Israel as a rationale.

Militarily it doesn't offer much support, in the USA's recent wars in Iraq and Afghanistan where you might have expected Israel to be a key contributor, it did pretty much nothing besides offer some faulty intelligence on Iraq. The reason for this is that any overt military action by Israel in the region would have been viewed as incredibly toxic and poisoned the whole endeavour from the offset.

Economically Israel is advanced but not huge or home to unique resources and doesn't really deserve special treatment on that account.

It really comes down to a host of internal political reasons, from evangelical religious support to the strong Israel lobby to the ingrained support from the Cold War.

Toverhead

It is all about money.  Our politicians send Israel $4 billion per year, and in return they buy our weapons and pay off our politicians.

Nearby-Astronomer298

It's all of the above.  Improves soft power in the region, supports democracy abroad, counters violent and extremist organizations out to persecute a religious minority, is the right thing to do.

Israel is an important partner to us in all facets, and they need our support given the genocidal, terroristic behavior of many regional groups that exist near them.

ClockOfTheLongNow

All the commentary and almost all of it seems to ignore a basic reality, the country of Israel is where the three Abrahamic religions converge.  Israel the country and government may not be a perfect match for the United States in all aspects, but it's the most palatable one while maintaining open access.  There are still some historically significant religious sites that have limited or no access to outsiders throughout the region in different countries.

AVonGauss

I think one of the main reasons is Iran. Iran wants to be the dominant power in the region, but they're chiefly challenged in that respect by Israel (who we support) and Saudi Arabia (who we also support.) Meanwhile, Iran arms Hamas and Hezbollah and the Houthis. Israel and Hamas/Hezbollah/Houthis are duking it out right now, with Iran, the US, and Saudi Arabia behind the scenes. Saudi Arabia doesn't really provide direct military assistance to Iran, but Saudi Arabian and Israeli intelligence are known to work together, and Saudi Arabia provides Israel with access to its airspace and some strategic coordination. It's basically a US/Saudi Arabia team vs. Iran team going on here.

In a broader sense, Iran allies with other anti-Western powers like Russia and China. So there are significant geopolitical consequences if Israel would cease to exist. If you zoom out far enough, this is basically just "West vs. East."

UnfoldedHeart

it's a glorified american military base in the middle of a region that (rightfully) despises america.


this is the actual reason america is willing (eager, even) to lend support and military aid to israel's genocide and colonial ambitions - because they are, de facto, *america's* colonial ambitions, and genocide is necessary to see them fulfilled. a lot of hay is made over AIPAC supposedly controlling u.s. politicians, but Israel has no military, economic or diplomatic power that the u.s. does not give it.

Complex-Field7054

I believe Noam Chomsky says that the US supporting Israel is much about being able to maintain some control of the resources (mostly oil) in the Middle East.

There's also the biblical/religious stuff, such as the End Times believers, and both conservative parties tend to be "fundies" or go along with that crap.

Factory-town

Attacks they inspire on American soil (9/11) give US imperialists the justification they need to overthrow countries in the region (Iraq).

boyyhowdy

There are two things going on. The first one is that the US has a lot of religious nutcases who think that Isreal is related to the second coming of Jesus. The second thing is that Isreal acts as a political foothold in a generally hostile area of the world for the US.

kittenTakeover

There is none. On the contrary, a lot of experts like John Mearsheimer directly argue that Israel is a strategic liability for the US, which I agree with.

.Complete and unconditional support of Israel is the main reason why the US has no other allies in the Middle East. Before that, they had no problem with most countries in the region, even with Iran

.The total disregard for the war crimes, human rights atrocities, and the apartheid system of Israel throws the entire Western values argument out of the window, exposing them to be complete hypocrites when it suits their needs. This alone gives an immensely powerful card to the likes of Putin all across the Global South.

.They spend billions of dollars on supporting an already wealthy country, creating a huge opportunity cost for their citizens.

.They make every single US soldier stationed in the region an open target. If Israel attacks Iran, their first reaction will be to respond by attacking the US bases in the region.

Israel is a burden on the shoulders of the US. They take a lot from the US and give back almost nothing in return. The only reason why the US supports Israel is AIPAC, as explained by a former US president quite clearly:

[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NsKy9GKpwE0&amp;ab\_channel=IfAmericansKnew](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NsKy9GKpwE0&amp;ab_channel=IfAmericansKnew)

Broken_thermocycler

As others have said, it's not a strategic position, but a political one, similarly to the completely counter-productive Cuban embargo whose sole purpose is to appease rabidly anti-communist Cuban emigrants.

In this case, the appeased groups are zionist American Jews and evangelical Christians. There is no long-term strategic reason why Israel should recieve such incredibly generous military and financial aid from the US, especially as it has repeatedly shown it has no problem with thumbing its nose at American requests and advice.

Pimpin-is-easy

Strategic reasons:

1) hoping to bring on the Christian ends times sooner.

2) we helped create the situation in Palestine, so we feel obligated to stay, further allowing more violence instead of making them learn to negotiate. 

There’s definitely more and better strategic reasons, but I’m not an expert with loads of analysis. I think we have military bases in Israel, but we could have them with others.

etoneishayeuisky

There are a lot of rich Zionists jews in buisness (much of it is due to limitations placed on Jews over the centuries regarding their occupations) who strongly support Israel. The west sees them as Allies to maintain their interest in the Middle East.

You also have aipac which bribes the government to support Israel. The ADL has also been taken over by Zionists in recent decades and have promoted the idea that its anti semetic to not support Israel.

96suluman

Israel represents one of the long term allies in the region. We have obviously been involved in the Middle East for a long time and made few friends Israel has been an ally during the whole time. They are also one of the only democracies in the region.

Specific-Hand3439

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DeltaBot

You’ve got to separate survey results from diplomacy.

Popular opinion in a country frequently does not determine the actions of a government. The Arab states that have normalised relations with Israel did so despite the overwhelming hostility to Israel amongst their populations. You can’t attribute that solely to US pressure when countries like UAE and Morocco are continuing trade ties with Israel including purchasing Israeli weapons

If the EU decision actually makers actually wanted to cut diplomatic or trade ties with Israel they could quite easily. They choose not to because Israel is a Western ally in a region that mostly isn’t friendly to Western interests. The EU also appreciates that Israel is fighting extremists who the EU classify as terrorists, that’s very different to despots like Saddam who started a conflict with Iran and indiscriminately gassed Kurdish civilians

Your assertion that 17 EU states voted for economic sanctions on Israel is false. In reality they voted to review the trade deal the EU had with Israel, any attempted suspension by left of centre EU states would be blocked because the EU decisions need unanimity. 

The EU governments such as Spain who are vociferously opposed to Israel are typically left wing who normally are hostile to Israel. That can easily change in an election.

You’re also forgetting US adversaries who maintain ties with Israel. Russia and China maintain good diplomatic relations and trade ties with Israel despite being unaffected by US pressure. China invests billions in Israel and is the second biggest trading partner of Israel

Valarmorgulis77

Was it like that before the US gave support?

Seems like you are forgetting that part of history and Israel was still successful

NegevThunderstorm

Having worked with many Jewish business owners in accounting, I can say with confidence that there are billions in private donations and financial support flowing to Israel from individuals, communities, and organizations worldwide, not just from the U.S. government. This includes large fundraising networks in North America, Europe, and even Latin America, as well as powerful diaspora organizations that consistently mobilize private capital for Israeli causes, whether humanitarian, military, educational, or tech-based.

While U.S. government backing certainly plays a strategic and diplomatic role, the global Jewish diaspora’s financial and organizational support for Israel is deeply entrenched and resilient, and wouldn’t just vanish if the U.S. stepped back. That economic lifeline, from wealthy donors, endowments, and business relationships, would likely continue to give Israel a degree of insulation against total isolation, especially when it comes to keeping sectors like tech, defense, and innovation strong.

So yes, U.S. backing is a key pillar, but it’s not the only pillar keeping Israel afloat internationally.

Beardharmonica

You know the Arab states actually like Israel, right? Not the people, sure, and not as good pals, but as a convenient political entity. Israel keeps the Palestinians down, the people in, and the Iranians out. The Jordanians, Egyptians, Lebanese, Syrians, and Saudis don't want Palestinian refugees, and Israel is a convenient government to do their dirty work. Hatw for Israel is soemthing leaders can always tap into to shore up their political regimes, which is also something they appreciate. The Saudis appreciate that Israel will keep Iran a non-nuclear State to maintain the balance of power.

Delli-paper

China would happily step in. Possibly Russia. 

Israel is strategically important foreign policy-wise. They also likely have nukes. 

The US wasn’t supporting Israel just out of the goodness of its heart. 

Foreign policy is about power. Israel is not at all in the same position as Iraq was.

nothanks86

Intel makes a lot of their chips in Isreal. Also Isreal and India have a very close relationship.

Informal_Cry687

I think this is one of the biggest misconceptions in IR today.  International Relations are ultimately reciprocal. Despite apearences Israel has a lot to offer militarily, economically, and politically. 

[This Article](https://www.israelhayom.com/2020/06/15/how-russia-saved-israel-from-a-palestinian-state-based-on-the-48-borders/) is a good example of Israel influencing a country that isn't the US. At the slightest hesitation of the Obama administration, Israel easily pivoted to Russia. Israel intentionally cultivates relations with many countries you wouldn't think of as Israeli Allies: Azerbaijan, Singapore, Vietnam, China, and many others. 

Pivoting away from the US wouldn't be the first pivot either, Israel's first Sugar Daddy was actually France. France was the original supplier of Israel's air power and even helped Israel develope nuclear weapons.

fghhjhffjjhf

You made three main points, so I’ll tackle them one by one.

1. “Without the U.S., Israel would be isolated.”

Honestly, U.S. aid is a tiny piece of Israel’s economy—about 1% of GDP and ~15% of its defense budget. It’s helpful, sure, but Israel isn’t collapsing without it. And let’s not forget: the aid is part of a broader regional balance (like the Egypt peace deal), so cutting it off would mean the U.S. also has to stop giving money to Egypt and others, which they’re definitely not eager to do.

Plus, Israel’s not stuck with the U.S. as its only option. It’s already building strong ties with Europe and Asia—record arms exports ($14.8B in 2024), booming tech industry, growing trade with China and India. If things really soured with the U.S., Israel could pivot eastward and still be just fine.


2. “Everyone hates Israel—look at the UN.”

Yeah, the UN is full of resolutions against Israel. That’s not news. In fact, in 2024, the UN passed 17 resolutions against Israel and just six for the rest of the world combined. That’s not balance—that’s obsession.

But despite all that, Israel’s economy is strong, its defense industry is booming, and it’s still a hub for innovation. More patents and unicorn startups per capita than just about anywhere. That stuff matters way more than symbolic UN votes. If Israel was truly isolated, countries wouldn’t be lining up to buy its tech and weapons.


3. “The West is turning on Israel.”

Some Western governments are more critical lately, but that doesn’t mean they're cutting ties. A lot of it is performative politics—saying the right things for their base while still doing business as usual behind the scenes. And let’s be real, public opinion shifts fast. It wasn’t long ago that Ukraine had 100% support and now you’re seeing people get fatigued there too.

As for the genocide claims—people were shouting that on October 8th, literally the day after the Hamas massacre. It’s clear the labels were political from the start. And while you can argue about tactics, most military experts actually view the civilian-to-combatant ratio as low given the urban combat in Gaza. Israel has invested a lot into minimizing civilian harm—AI targeting, roof knocks, phone calls to evacuate. You don’t have to love it, but the methods are being studied by other militaries for a reason.

Israel’s still a democracy (flawed like most are), has a high human development score, and isn’t going anywhere. Even without U.S. backing, it’s a country with a ton of talent, resources, and connections. The idea that it’d suddenly be Iraq 2.0 without U.S. help just doesn’t hold up.

Also, let’s be honest: academic takes on this topic are super polarized. Most pro-Israel scholars haven’t suddenly switched sides, and neither have the anti-Israel ones. The narratives are already entrenched, and with 2 billion Muslims worldwide, of course their framing gets louder. Doesn’t automatically make it right.

Second26

We're in a TikTok age where public opinions a formed and deformed in a heartbeat. Israel and the Jews have been world scapegoats for eons and it is easy for them to be cast that way again for political gain. All ME countries other than Israel are effective dictatorships, and all good dictatorships need boogie men to distract their populations with - a role Israel has played valiantly since its inception. Right now Europe, like an idiot, has welcomed tons of ME people who dont have any appreciation for the human rights that and moral standards that have been fought for there. Those are a very loud and voting population who can now rage without the accountability they would have in their home countries. The general dislike for Israel is proportionate to the increase in those populations. So if antidemocratic people hating on Israel and political parties appeasing them is an indication then yeah, but in the same token Europe and likely Canada and maybe the US are screwed as real democracies as well. With all that going to my first line, we're in a strange time with social networking and AI shaping public opinion like it was clay ... lets see how we survive that. My one take though is that the Jews will survive and ultimately thrive like they have no matter what evil crap was thrown at them.

ChinCoin

If US will become hostile to Israel it will be very bad for Israel, but will not devastate the country. Israel won 48 and 67 wars - the last great wars it actually won in a determined way - despite US embargo. 

In the scenario of a hostile US I can see 3 possible developments:
1. Jews in US are very Zionist, and they are more wealthy and educated on average. They will support the country with donations and with actual immigration which will strengthen the country.
2. China will jump on the opportunity with 2 hands - a nuclear power with advanced tech? With direct access to US tech? And lots of potential agents in US and Europe? Amazing opportunity for China. Israel already cultivated ties with China which it had to freeze due to US pressure. 
3. Europe, Canada, UK are no longer directly aligned with the US, maybe a recognition of Palestine will pave the way for Israel joining the EU or strengthening ties with these countries. Everybody is hungry for Israel Cyber and Defense Tech, Europe would not like it to fall into Chinese and Russian hands.

No_Locksmith_8105

The thing with Israel it's pretty much the only democracy in the middle east and therefore extremely important to the west as whole. It's an important arms manufacturer for European countries, especially with the US on the retreat and the EU needing time to get it's own defemce industry back on track and pretty much the only thing held against it at the moment is Gaza. A conflict that it will realistically not be abled to continue for much longer, in the way the war is conducted at the moment, not because of international pressure, but pressure from within. Don't overestimate Palestine being recognized too - that's a mostly symbolic act as there is no government or state to speak of, except for the autonomy authority to which almost everyone in Europe has some kind of relations. 

But I think you actually miss the most important factor, which is Israel's second most important Ally after the US - Germany. Almost nothing in the EU is decided against Germany's explicit dissent. Not only because it has Veto power on many decisions like every country or it's hard to get qualified majorities for others without Germany's over 80 million inhabitants, but because Germany is soft power powerhouse in Europe in many fields. France is more important in shaping Europe's foreign policy, but just as Germany will usually consult with France to not cross any red lines of their most important ally, so will France in return. 

Germany considers tze safety of Israel a "Staatsräson", which can roughly be translated as a "reason of state." Germany considers the safe existence of a jewish state for jews to have a homeland to flee to, if every being under threat again, one of it's reasons for being allowed to exist and act in international politics after the horrors of the holocaust. 

Even though chancellor Merz recently criticized the 
conduct of the IDF in Gaza this has to be viewed as an attack on the Netanyahu government rather than a change of tone towards Israel as a whole. Merz even stated, although realizing he wouldn't be abled to do that due to probabl court orders, he couldn't defy, he wouldn't be willing to arrest an Isreali prime minister (Netamyahu) inspite of international arrest warrants, if he wanted to visit Germany, because it couldn't be that an Israeli politician wasn't safe in Germany at all times.

Therefore - although obviously not a US like power - Germany would probably step in, if the US took a step back and guarantee Israel's seat at the table in western diplomacy. Although I highly doubt that any western country wouldn't support any other Israeli government anyway five or ten years into the future after the probabl end of the war in Gaza with everything being basically reset to the status quo ante.

EmporerJustinian

Don't look at UN votes. Look at military sales and economic ties .For it's size Israel is a major supplier of arms and tech R&amp;D. 

This is even among Muslim countries which have overt or covert economic and/or military ties. Even china owns Israeli port, a significant investment.

Most countries it's not in their best interest to cut ties with Israel, although they don't mind keeping it humble every now and then just to keep prices low. 

Ironically Palestine would be a pariah state isolated from rest of the world if not for US support

ConsequencePretty906

[deleted]


People will change their minds. There’s a lot of propaganda surrounding this war. Lot of dirty tactics. Notice how nobody ever talked about Hamas?  The conversation was entirely about Israel. 


“That’s the point.” -Hamas

The west doesn’t understand ideals you’d be willing to die for. 

We were introduced to the darkness at 9/11 but Israel was born in it -Some guy from Batman. 

When we took out two countries you know why we did it?  Because we lost a teeny/tiny fraction of our population. 

But for Israel 10/7 killed a huge fraction of Israelis. 

DO THE MATH YOURSELF. 

Everyone forgot about the tunnel network already. There will be lots of footage of that released eventually. And where did they get that idea?  Vietnam. 

And didn’t US get like 25% of civilian casualties for that war?

What about comparing apples to apples —or at least close. 

Iraq. What was the civilian casualty rate? Like over 60%!

Israel civilian casualties rate is staggering at 80%!  But wait ITS HAMAS GIVING US THESE NUMBERS and if you believe it out right because Hamas said it then you hate Jews. Simple. 

In a tightly packed Iraq you’re gonna get a lot of casualties especially when the people have a highly developed philosophy of MARTYDOM. And you don’t have to always volunteer because if you die they consider it part of the war and you’re a martyr in their eyes even if you didn’t want to die for HAMAS!  Hamas fought from behind civilians. They threw rocks and hid their hands. I’m not judging. I think we should be studying for when USA goes corrupt. I mean full on corrupt. Wait… are we there lol 

Moving along
The US hasn’t been in a good war since when? 
I bet your entire life they’ve been fighting Cold War nonsense or “Terrorism”. Am I rite?

What is this Cold War except a WAR of ECONOMICS. And I tell you that isn’t a good fight. 

Jews have nowhere else to call their home except the place that WAS CALLED JUDEA UNTIL ROME RENAMED IT AFTER ANCIENT JEWISH ENEMIES THE PHILISTINES. 

It’s the land of JUDEA. Say it with me JEW-day-a. 

Pick up a Bible it has all the info threre. Then you’ll need to study the Jewish-Roman war.

Jews fought so hard for so long, Romans had to crucify thousands of them and destroy all their buildings and salt the Earth and rename it Palestine so people would forget the Jews and Judea. 

Spoiler Alert: Jews KEPT their IDENTITY. 

Romans wouldn’t let Jews live in Judea (renamed Palestine). 

So guess what they eventually went to Europe where civilisation was developing. 

Then EUROPE purged its Jews and Russia purged Jews so Israel was born. Between the USA and Israel there’s half Jews here and half in Israel now.

But now Jews are rethinking their place in the USA with all the antisemitism. 

What happens to nations that purge their Jews?  Should check that out. It’s not a good idea to kick out your best and brightest lol. Doesn’t end well.

But Jews will endure. 

Anyhow back to Judea. I mean Palestine, sorry. 

The people living there didn’t belong to anyone really for a long long time. They lived like shepherds. 

Look at before and after pictures of Palestine vs today. 

Palestine became an actual place with tall buildings and everything AFTER DIFFERENT GROUPS IN THE AREA GAINED AN IDENTITY —BY OPPOSING ISRAEL. 

ISRAEL WAS OPEN TO SHARING THE LAND. 

THE “PALESTINIANS” (they’re not ancestors of the Philistines) rejected any offer. 

Since then how many fights have there been?  How has the peace process looked on the Palestinian side last three decades?  

Buffer zone after buffer zone was the result of every big. attack on Israel. I say big because they get shot at regularly we just don’t hear about them because Israel has the Iron Dome. 

Literally they NEED the Iron dome since the neighbour’s want to keep land THEY CONQUERED.  

But in truth Arabs and the language of Arabic and the religion of Islam come from….Arabia!!!

They conquered the land with sword in the Name of Allah. But their right to the land was no greater than Rome’s who also took it by sword. 

Liberals in USA some reason support a conquering Muslim Arab army and their lands but not Israel who WAS GIVEN THE LAND LEGALLY.  Then they fought all their neighbors AND WON. 

Muslims wanted the land but I guess ALLAH WASNT WILLING. 

SO HOW DOES ONE OWN LAND. LET US DISCUSS THIS BASIC PRINCIPLE. 

Why are all these Redditors complaining about people they’ve never met?  Palestinians and Jews being a super minority in the USA. Has anyone actually grew up around Jews or had dinner with Jews?  

I think IDENTITY POLITICS has taken over the nation and everyone wanna FIT IN and not understand the reality we live in. 

Israel is the USA’s greatest ally in the Middle East.

WE LITERALLY HABE THE SAME ENEMIES IN THE MUSLIM FUNDAMENTALISTS

Palestine is teamed up with Iran!  Why are supporting people who not only want Israel gone but THEY ALSO WANT THE WEST GONE!!!

The GREAT SATAN IS USA LOLOL. 

THIS IS THE MENTALITY ISRAEL IS FIGHTING. 

YES NATIONS ALL MAKE MISTAKES. 

BUT LIKE TRUMP DOESN’T REPRESENT EVERYONE IN THE USA. IN FACT BARELY EVEN 50%!!!!! 

ISRAEL HAS THE SAME SUPPORT FOR NETANYAHU! Like 40% approval and majority DONT LIKE HIM. 

SAME IS GOING ON IN THE UK!!!

Should the world hate ALL of the USA because of friggen Trump???  Of course not!!

Bottom line. A war has begun. Allies are being separated by propaganda. It’s part of the plan coming from the East. Russia is attacking the west on its Eastern side. We all await China on the Western side. 


But it began with dividing us. 

I say bye bye to all fundamentalists and they need to go settle one big country so they can all just have at it with each other while the rest of us work together for a better tomorrow. 

This won’t happen without Israel. 

Am chai Y’Israel 🇮🇱

No-Midnight-8718

&gt;Israel isn’t well liked by the world, there's over 40 Muslim countries that despise Israel and would cheer for their destruction and in the western world, Israel public image has suffered massively after October 7th with the vast majority of westerners having unfavorable views on Israel.


Do you not realize Israel is basically a Bastion of western ideology in a sea of Muslim oppression?


Obviously those authoritarian regimes would like to see them fall. In those 40 countries gay marriage isn't even a thought they are more worried about keeping it hidden so they are not publicly murdered to the cheers of a crowd. 


Do you realize Hamas wants the west to hate Israel and constantly attacking them while hiding behind hospitals and schools so any retaliation gives Israel a black eye is the whole purpose? Oct 7 was never going to topple Israel by force but its succeeding in turning western countries against Israel. These types of posts are litteraly furthering a terrorist agenda.


Do you think it would be good if Israel fell to the Palestinians and became another authoritarian Muslim country? They would scroll through the recordings of the last gay pride parade Israel had and slaughter everyone that attended and you think that's better because Israel had enough of terrorists and the people who harbored them are paying a severe price?

EnvChem89

Israel just announced a record in arms sales, near 15 billion dollars just last year. More than 50% of the deals are to Europe. This country is objectively a leader in a lot of fields and many countries would love to have stronger ties with Israel.

Everything you hear in the news is literally just to appease the muslim vote which is just numericly too big to not try and appease. At the end of the day non of those countries would have reacted better to some terror group breaching their border, killing raping and kidnapping hundreds of their citizens.

Guinsoosrb

If America left Israel Israel would enter the China/Russia orbit very quickly. 

They both have a ton of US military secrets and they are a technological powerhouse. Not to mention the expansive intelligence network they have.

Israel is too valuable of a regional player to not be scooped up by a bigger state.

BuffZiggs

You are failing to distinguish between public opinion and public policy.

1. There's a huge difference between cricicism of Isaraeli government policy &amp; total diplomatic isolation. Foreign policy is rarely, if not never, dictated by public sentiment and despite public opinions in many countries, they still maintain fairly robust relationship from defense contracts and security cooperations.
2. There's zero chance that China &amp; Russia would go along with isolation tactics if it opened up opportunities to gain influence in the region. Did you know that Israel is one of only countries in non-ex-Soviet bloc / South America where its citizen can just hop on plane at any time and go to Russia for fun?
3. Israel was never a natural resource rich country nor was it a dictatorship country that went to war with its neighbors for fun like Saddam did so that comparison doesn't work. It's economy is powered by high tech and cybersecurity industry so zero chance that gets isolated.

Bitter-Goat-8773

It's true that the United States plays a major role in Israel’s diplomatic and military position... but the idea that Israel would become a full pariah state without U.S. support overlooks several key dynamics.


First, Israel has established significant economic and technological ties with countries beyond the U.S. Its innovation sector, particularly in cybersecurity, medical technology, and agriculture, has led to strong partnerships with nations like India, Japan, Germany, the UK, and several African countries. Many of these relationships are based on mutual economic interest, not just U.S. pressure.


Second, Israel’s recent normalization agreements with several Arab and Muslim-majority nations... including the Abraham Accords with the UAE, Bahrain, Morocco, and Sudan... demonstrate that its regional isolation has already started to shift. These were not brokered solely by U.S. force but involved long-term strategic considerations by the countries themselves.


As for UN votes and international sentiment, it’s important to recognize that votes at the UN General Assembly are non-binding and often reflect domestic political posturing rather than actionable foreign policy. Countries frequently vote symbolically without translating that into economic or diplomatic disengagement.


Regarding public opinion, the Pew survey shows that Israel's image has taken a hit, especially since the October 7th attacks and subsequent war in Gaza... but image does not necessarily translate into full-scale diplomatic abandonment. Public opinion in many democratic nations does influence policy, but not always in direct or absolute ways, especially in matters of national interest, trade, and security cooperation.


Lastly, while U.S. support offers Israel unique strategic advantages, Israel has consistently demonstrated a high degree of self-reliance... including developing its own defense technologies like Iron Dome, maintaining a strong domestic arms industry, and securing energy independence through offshore natural gas fields.


So yes, Israel without U.S. backing would face new diplomatic and economic challenges... but the idea that it would become a pariah state on the level of Saddam’s Iraq or Cuba under embargo simplifies a far more complex and resilient geopolitical reality.

averagerustgamer

Not everyone on the left wants Israel to be a pariah state.  I speak as someone who has always been against Israeli oppression of the Palestinians but I see the BDS movement as being unnecessarily antagonistic. I think that people who want peace have to work for peace on both sides. It’s extraordinarily complex. To “support Israel” can be seen as being wanting a peaceful resolution to the conflict and also supporting the cause against right wing elements in Israel. Because the way I see it, the right wing militarization and occupation is ultimately very destructive to the integrity of Israel.  The right wing is happy to have Israel be a pariah state. They want the population to feel paranoid that everyone is out to get them and that it is an existential battle against antisemitism. (It happens to be that the situation IS existential but it’s one that Israel has participated in creating).  

 Furthermore, I know a lot of people from the EU left who say that the problem of Israel/Palestine really is magnified in the USA and it isn’t something that animates the left in Europe. Perhaps because they know that they hold historical guilt for the situation that led Jews to flee to Israel in the first place.  But what they say is generally true. The Gaza war / ethnic cleansing is horrific, but it’s not more horrific that other ethnic cleansing or wars elsewhere, it just happens that there is a lot more media coverage and there is a lot more suffering concentrated in a very limited amount of space, so it seems more intense than another conflict such as in Sudan where it’s spread out over hundreds of miles and it’s not reportable in the same way.

Longjumping-Layer210

Israel is a democratic state in a region that’s never known that. Women and gays have equal rights. Arabs are part of the government and live comfortably there. Every progressive nation on earth- not just the US- has reason to support the big picture idea of Israel. If Israel lost influence to the larger Arab world, that would be very bad for women, gays, Europe, western civilization, etc. 

Other countries that care about that stuff would fill the void quickly to keep Israel afloat.

CrookedTree89

I don’t think this recognizes how geopolitics works. The other major powers could support Israel if they could get the benefits of a solid ally in the region. You actually aren’t cynical enough. The USA supports Israel for geopolitical reasons, it is a foothold in a region which has value. France, UK or even Russia would love to have that same foothold. 

While there is no likelihood of US losing its access other nations have more to gain out of pandering to Islamic countries for concessions. But if they could have an unsinkable air craft carrier in the region it would be more valuable than friendship with Israel’s enemies. 

ezk3626

The US began supporting Israel after they agreed not to occcupy major territory around themselves they won in their like 4th major defensive war.


Do you not realize how significantly more wise Israel's position is to be more offensive than they are? If you remove oil extraction then their economy is 40x the entire Middle East. They also have, for their economic size, the most competant and well funded military in the world.


On top of this, Israeli restrictions on combat are greater than any other nations in the world. Their tactics activelt undermine themselves due to how much they basically tell their enemies they are coming, in order to minimize civilian casualties.




You must not think about the situation Israel could be in and think about the one they are in. They are the single land of their people. They have a history of genocides. Their neighbours have a history of instigating conflicts. The occupied people near them have exploited every deal theyve ever made to minimize their suffering.


If you cut off their support, then they are doomed in their current strategy. The only logical thing to do would be to be far more proactive in the Middle East.

Existing-Jacket18

You do realise Israel kicked multiple arab states ass in conflict when it was attacked by them even before receiving open US support, as much as people hate the country (never understood why) i never understood why would you fuck with a nation who fought 5 countries at the same time and won and managed to build a nuke WITHOUT oil money or real resources, ask yourself why, Maybe, just maybe, they are smart, determined and ready at all times and not just a medieval natural resource state like most of its neighbpurs, for the record i am from europe and not jewish but for the love of god i do not understand jewish hate

ProfessionalPie1287

Please try to get your facts right and presented accurately. US 'aid' to Israel is under 4 billion a year, and about the same that Egypt and Jordan get. It is less than one percent of the total US defense budget and would be used to support US defense interests in other ways if not via Israel. The so-called 'aid' has to be spent in the US and provides jobs for tens of thousands of American directly, and many more indirectly. It is also against Israeli interests in that it stymies the local arms industry,and making Israeli subservient to US dictates. Apart from that Israeli companies invest heavily in the US and provide jobs for tens of thousands of Americans.

One tiny Jewish country not popular in a world that is predominantly Muslim and Christian (and predominantly M and C on account of real colonialism, invasion and ethnic cleansing), funny that. Also a world that relies heavily on oil, when said Muslim countries are the source of much of the world's oil. The fact that the vast majority of westerner's being unfavorable to Israel for the audacity to fight back after the atrocities of Oc7, says more about them than Israel. 

Everything you write only confirms that this is a religious war, Islam will not tolerate dhimmi Jews being sovereign in their own country. Especially, as it was an area that Muslims once included in their vast portfolio of conquest and colonisation, the irony is that they have their sights set on Spain next. You go Spain, when you find yourself in the firing line of dar al harb. Europe otoh has not forgiven the Jews for surviving the Holocaust. Allowed to live as a small, cowered minority, but not as a sovereign nation, masters of their destiny. Don't forget the Inquisition chased Jews to the other side of the world in Latin America, so determined were they. 

The Jewish Israeli population is the most resourceful in the world, bar none. 

And you clearly miss the most important aspect of all: Gd Himself is obviously on Israel's side. To survive as a scattered, exiled nation after many centuries of persecution by said Christians and Muslims, to return home, to build a beautiful, thriving country, one of the happiest in the world is literally miraculous.

Temporary_Job_2800

Israel should not be a pariah state

There has never been a country of Palestine. Jews and Arabs have lived in that territory since the earliest recorded history. The Ottoman Empire controlled that territory since the 1500s. The people were never offered citizenship by the Ottoman Empire. 

Near the end of the 19th century, when anti-semitism was ramping up in most parts of the world the Jews started migrating  to the territory and were welcomed by  Jews, Muslims, and Christians.

The Ottomans sided with Germany during WWI. As a part of the surrender Britain took over the territory. No citizenship was offered by the Brits, either.

After WWII, The UN divided up the territory designating a place for Arabs and a place for Jews.
The Jews almost immediately issued a declaration of independence from British rule and declaring Israel a sovereign country. In that declaration of independence Israel offered full citizenship to any Arabs living in the Jewish part of the territory. 

There were 155,000 Arabs that accepted Israel's offer and became citizens. That population grew and now 1 in 5 Israelis is an Arab. 

There were 800,000 that rejected the offer of citizenship. Egypt, Iraq, Jordan, Lebanon, and Syria declared war on the new state of Israel almost immediately. Those 5 countries and the Palestinian Arabs that joined them lost that war.

Those 5 Arab countries could have and should have absorbed the 800,000 that rejected Israel's offer of citizenship. Instead they left them in place as suffering refugees for the last 7 decades.

mrhymer

Israelis are a unique group of individuals.  They’re like Batman, they’ve got a plan on how to kill their enemies 10 ways and their friends 15 ways. 

Being constantly threatened from multiple sides will harden you in a way most people can’t understand.  I don’t think the US is doing as much for them as you think. 

I understand what you’re saying and I see it but the reality is:

European’s moderate and left party is having a hard time staying in power.  They can denounce whatever they like and write strongly worded letters but they’re not going to do anything.  The US leaving (whatever that means) wouldn’t suddenly see the EU “loan” Palestine weapons like they do for Ukraine. 

Countries like Saudia Arabia give precisely 0 fucks about Palestinians (per a direct quote from their king). It isn’t like if the US disappeared tomorrow people would rush to help Palestine. 

Those of us who have been alive and adults for 40-50 years (like world politicians) are fully aware that Palestine is and has been a really really bad actor and that the world would be better with out it. 

We are burdened by altruism but many leaders are not and stability for a region at the expense of a group of people is acceptable.


 We’re just not allowed to say that and actually stepping in and stopping the bullshit would probably be the final straw in seeing the EU adopt a far right stance. 

Ready-Issue190

Historically they had support from other nations, e.g. the UK and France, and they have decent relations with Russia. 

If the US hadn't developed the relationship that they have with Israel it is likely that Israel would have made an effort to  foster stronger relations with other countries, perhaps Russia, to prop it up. India even could be a decent ally, as they are pretty amicable now. China has somewhat chilly relations with Israel, but if Israel didn't have US support they could attempt to develop a good relationship with China.

Israel serves a useful role in the middle east for the US, and so the US supports it. If the US didn't support Israel, then Israel could serve that useful role for another state, and that state would support them. 

Obviously, the fact that the US is (or at least has been) definitively the strongest power means that in alternate situation where Israel is propped up by another power Israel would be worse off. Especially in a scenario where it largely relies on Russian support, which I think would probably actually be the most likely alternate scenario, it would be more isolated, more of a pariah and economically worse off, but still not entirely.

Obviously if we are discussing a situation where the US withdrew its support immediately now then Israel probably would be a total pariah, or it would have to somehow scramble to gain support from elsewhere rapidly. Possibly if withdrawal of US support led to Israel being militarily or existentially threatened then the EU would probably step in to prevent, despite their moderately oppositional attitude.

anarchist_person1

many Muslims countries don't really care about palestinian, why would you think that western countries solidarity with gazans is anything but performative?

no country would end economic ties with a high economically and technologically advanced nation, which doesn't threaten them directly, just because they wage a war in a different from you region you have nothing to do with

being allies with Israel will always be more beneficial than being enemies with it for any country, and that what actually matters

koetyan

I disagree because you aren't thinking of what happens after day 1. In this case, when the US pulls out, Israel would not have allies (yet). But Israel and AIPAC spend a lot of money on our politicians to keep us as an ally. If that money is freed up from us, I think Israel could find other corrupt politicians who will take that money and they would have a new ally very shortly after.

Vladtepesx3

I mean, what is a "pariah state"? this seems like another Israel CMV that smacks of wishful thinking against the world's only Jewish state.

There are no true pariah states in this world. Russia still conducts trade with almost all of Europe. China and Saudi Arabia's human rights records make no difference to almost anyone. Cuba, Venezuela and Iran may be pariahs politically, but their misery is primarily due to their own corrupt and mismanaged systems

I think you vastly underestimate Israel's independent capacity as a regional powerhouse, with an educated and capable population and a vibrant culture. I invite you to visit and see for yourself.

Shalom.

LowRevolution6175

If your argument is about what \*would\* happen, rather than just what you think \*should\* happen, I think you're wrong.  Israel would probably seek out and obtain stronger partnerships with countries like China.  Israel's tech and pharma prowess alone makes it an unlikely candidate for full-blown isolation.

Well the US isn't stupid, they understand the importance of Israel. Considering the recent leaked reports of Muslim brotherhood infiltrating government positions in many European countries especially the UK and France, I would take what they say right now with a grain of salt

AwareMoney3206

As an American Jew reading this thread is fascinating. I don’t know how to explain this but the most fervent state actors against Israel of late (South Africa) would still rather have diplomatic relationships with Israel than not. What’s most interesting to me here is the suggestion that other countries would abandon Israel. The Uk populace might not like Israel but there’s no government there not even a Jeremy corbyn Labour one that would treat Israel like a pariah state. And he’s an antisemitic pos or was. You’re dealing with an economic, cultural and politically developed nation.  Which is a good partner to have in a world not filled with that many of them. While I understand the premise here it’s almost impossible to even consider the USA not supporting Israel. Israel’s actions might make a vocal minority of our country mad enough for this there’s no Arab partner in the world that meets the criteria to supplant Israel. We didn’t even make Saudi Arabia a pariah after they executed the wash post reporter. I mean you can sanction your friends in ir while still being their friend

dumberthenhelooks

Muslims dont like jews, or most non-muslims. Countries that you listed have increasing Muslim populations, so I am not surprised to see an increase in hatred towards jews.


I think Israel would immediately jump to Russia for support, to the detriment of America and the rest of the Middle East.

NotToPraiseHim

Soon the USA will be a Pariah state too if it already isn't and its extension in the middle east that is the zionist entity will collapse.


The US admin is full of inept, unqualified fools. It is being driven into the ground by them. It's like how Hitler killed Hitler. /s


Think about it, how long can the US afford to be a hybrid kleptocracy and kakistocracy? 

melelconquistador

Sorry this is an extremely misinformed take. Israel number 1 arms importer is Europe. The volume of trade only increases every year even during the war.

Guyb9

I think most of the middle east states would be full pariah states if they didn't have so much petro-dollars.

rayoflight110

No, that’s not how the world works. The world is composed of many different factions.

If the U.S. abandons Israel, why wouldn’t Russia or another major power swoop in? Israel is unclearly armed with a strong army and advanced economy in a majorly important area next to oil producing regions and the Suez Canal.  Additionally, given their hostile area, if you ally with them you can generally trust them.


And you underestimate any political backlash to someone else jumping in. Foreign policy is often at the bottom of any public’s importance list.  Yes they may voice support for a foreign policy issue but unless they are directly affected, food, housing, and education matter more.

And guess what, Israel can provide a strong trading partner, fresh water supply, energy, and security…

Additionally, if the public doesn’t care about foreign policy, the elites due.  And a lot of elites like Israel due to all the things I mentioned. 

Also for the Islamic world.  It’s not unified.  Amor of Sunnis strongly dislike Shia’s and Iran…. And Israel is the only nuclear armed power in the region that count counter a nuclear armed Iran…


If the U.S.  abandoned Israel.  Middle eastern politics wouldn’t change much.  The Sunni world would continue to take slow steps towards Israel to counter Iranian aggression, and non Salafists would also move towards Israel due to the extremism in the Palestinian movement.  It would be slow but it would be there.  And another major power, seeing an opportunity to gain major influence in the region over the Suez Canal and the flow of oil… would step in…

Also the fall of the Iranian backed Shia regime in Syria means the ability for the gulf states to send an oil Pipeline through Syria and Turkey to Europe is a massive plus for Israel.

Iran and Russia vehemently don’t want that to happen and Israel with their advanced airforce and nukes can gain alot of influence protecting or hampering that pipeline

TheHammerandSizzel

I think Israel or rather Bibi wouldn't pull the shit he's pulling without US support.

IggyVossen

Without US backing, someone else would have backed Israel, much as someone else has backed Israel before the US did.

And arguably, other countries are glad the US is giving Israel diplomatic cover, so they wouldn't have to, but Israel is the most legitimate country in the world in the sense that the world VOTED IN FAVOR of its existence

pet_genius

Without the USA... Israel, Intentionally or not, Would have Conquered Egypt to the Nile, Jordan Fully, as well As Syria and Lebanon.

Remember.
Israel has Taken the Sinai twice *With no Help* from the USA, more than Doubled her territory when under Embargo, And only ever gave land due to political Effort from the USA.

If the USA was not involved... 

Now.
If you are talking what if the USA left Israel *now?*

Israel foght this war just fine while having an Ammo Embargo from the USA, which is a violation of the standing agreement, BTW. Probably a big part of why Trump's Administration went on the whole *Fight Antisemitism.*

They want to keep that agreement going, with as little change/compansation as possible.

Because While Americans are deluded and think that their taxes subsidize The entirety of the Israeli Economy...
they really don't. 

barely a significant minority of the defence budget.

And Israel gives the USA *way more* than anything Israel gets.

Which is why... After Biden did that Embargo, and PR ships that did nothing of substance... And *then* USAID turned out to have funded Israel's enemies. Which is not a good Ally behaviour...

Trump *really* wants that agreement to not be amended to add American obligations, or reduce Israeli ones.

Because again, the USA *needs that allyship.*

So, that is why it us nor likely to happen.

Now, if the USA left Israel to dry, like Ukraine? 

Israel is a key producer of Computer Chips that are necessary for *a lot* of tech Civilian and not civilian Industries in the USA and the rest of the west *need.*

They can act all bitchy as they like.

But if they could replace Israel in that capacity and many others. *they would do so ages ago.*

They can *officially* badmouth Israel all they like.

But that will never get *too far.*

Leading-Chemist672

There’s a lot of imo misinformation here especially on us aid and how much you’re valuing it but there’s a super simple rebuttal to your point. If Israel were to lose the wests support countries like India, China, and Russia would most likely step in to fill that vacuum. India has a very close relationship with Israel and despite being a us ally Israel has decent relations with the other two less so with Russia though since the Ukraine war due to pressure from Biden admin. If the whole west shunned Israel, China and Russia would jump at the opportunity most likely to gain a strong ally in region with advanced tech they could leverage for themselves. China even now is Israel’s second largest trade partner. I also think your account of the west is overblown. People may hate what Israel’s current government is doing and want to recognize a Palestinian state but none of these countries want Israel’s destruction like the Muslims do nor have they flown a full economic boycott besides maybe the far left who are losing power in the eu. that vote you listed was to redo the current deal not boycott and specifically to target settlers/military products. Wouldn’t be comparable to like saddams boycott. Overall if they lost the wests support it would be a big blow but not nearly the knockout you think and would free their hand even more to do whatever they wanted to Palestinians ironically since they’d have already lost support.

Slow-Seaweed-5232

I think just give Islam what they want, to claim full control over the whole Middle East without any Jews, Christians and Indians too, do sanctions on India! because they oppress Pakistan.

madirva

The world likes Israel’s weapons https://www.newsweek.com/israel-defense-exports-new-record-gaza-2080805 Israel's Weapon Sales Break Record Despite Gaza Outrage - Newsweek

imaginepictures

Morocco does the same thing in the west Sahara. Turkey does the same thing in Kurdistan and syria. Neither is a pariah. If Israel was Muslim literally No one would care.

Kasperle_69

1. Popular opinion does not always determine government direction.  
If we went by popular opinion, the Gulf Nations and much of North Africa would be at war with the entire West. And I mean literally.  
2. A lot of Israel's legitimacy is from its ties to Europe, not the United States. Heck, Israel became and American ally only after Johnson came to power and in full during and after the Yom Kippur War.  
3. Israel is the only nation in the region where both its government AND its people are pro -West in the entire region. Everyone else either has a pro-West but very hostile population or is hostile on both fronts. There is no true ally in the region to the Americans or Europeans because religious dogma and ideology (and a sense of inferiority complex over the fact that Western civilization superseded the Islamic one and attempts to overcome it have failed) trump any positive feelings that the region has towards the West.  
At one point, Lebanon was on par with Israel as a true Western ally. That period was when Christians were the majority though. Because that meant that both the population and the government were pro-Western. That is no longer the case today

Brilliant-Lab546

Nah almost the whole west loves/or is deathly afraid of  Israel.  They might make the odd statement against them for show yet otherwise back them to the hilt

ThimMerrilyn

A diplomatic gap would form, and another country would fill it right away to gain power in the middle east. Geopolitics is not about ethics.

BigBaibars

Doubtfull. Isreal is the key to the middle east at the moment. China, India or Russia would be happy to jump into the void left by the US.

Immediate_Gain_9480

“Israel is past the point of no return.”

the US isn’t just supporting Israel bc they have a soft spot for them, they’re supporting them bc having a super strong military and nuclear presence in the Middle East is hugely beneficial. If the US cuts ties with Israel someone else would swoop in to reap the benefits the US previously got. 

Israel is incredibly powerful for their size, their military especially their tech is next level, Mossad is insanely skilled, they have nuclear weapons, and they’re one of the only politically stable countries in the Middle East that would be a reliable ally. They’ve got a decent amount to offer.

So I think it’s highly likely that there would be countries willing to back them in exchange for some of those benefits. Particularly countries opposed to America who would view supporting Israel as a dig against America, or countries like India who hugely support Israel already bc of their anti-Islam stance.

dontreallyknoww2341

Chawax

&gt; If the US pulled all their support...

If they did that, Russia or China would come in and support them to the same degree, and Israel would probably be a lot worse to the Palestinians b/c of it. Israel is a nuclear armed state with the most (i.e. only) advanced military in the region and their economy is as innovative and productive as the US. Israel money and power and nothing is going to change that.

A lot of the hate is driven by the fact that they are supported by America, not in spite of it. There is no reason for the CCP to be crying at the UN about this. Their ally Ehtiopia did a blockade of Tigeay that killed 200k like 2 years ago and it got basically no coverage or outrage. Iran used to be Israel closest ally until their government became principally Anti-American for the sake of it.

Europe has never really supported Israel since their empires disintigrated, they'd rather just be on the Arabs good side and they know the US will stick up for Israel so it doesnt matter that they vote against them at the UN (btw, the UN doesn't matter, the SC voted for a ceasefire like 2 years ago).

Adorable-Volume2247

I have never understood this conundrum:

Israel: “We must exist as a safe place for Jews to flee to if the western world turns against them.”

Also Israel: “We can’t exist without continued military support and financial investment from the western world.”

MiniZara2

What I will say is that at least half of Canada’s Jewish community believe there is a genocide in Gaza. I have spoken to quite a number of Jews who find Israel’s crimes embarrassing, demoralizing, and downright wrong. many are learning what they didn’t for decades…the history of the Nakba and successive uprisings, and how Israel has cynically tried to get the world on side with them despite their atrocities, ethnic cleansing and genocide. Israel has a very long history of committing atrocities in Lebanon and the Occupied Territories, or of having their proxies do that for them, often targeting Palestinian refugee camps. The world and yes, its Jewish population, are waking up. Israelis are increasingly leaving not because they fear for their safety but because their conscience cannot allow them to be a part of the oppression machine that is Israel.

habbbiboo

Israel would totally be fucked without us backing! Or they would learn not be arrogant and aggressive! And now committing war crimes on the Palestinian civilians. Hamas committed 1000 crimes on Israel! Israel has murdered 70.000 - 55.000 being children. I grew up in uk and every year we remember the holocaust! Never again!? Well of all the nations in the world Israel is the one that is repeating the holocaust on Palestinian children! Are their soldiers not brave enough to in on foot and kill Hamas terrorists face to face ?! Why do the bomb school and hospital! 
They say hamas is hiding underneath the buildings! Maybe so ! But why are they now blocking aid ? ! To starve the innocent! Israeli soldiers and government are all going to hell !

Aggressive-Ocelot-56

It would be a pariah state until those country citizens start asking "where did all my cancer meds go?",  "why do I no longer have good technology?",  "why has my army started losing?".  Israel is a medical, technology and arms powerhouse.  Any country that stops working with them or implements BDS will learn the hard way what they are missing and their people will demand that relationship back.

jomamma2

During the Cold War Israel chose to “buddy up” with the US instead of Russia. Ever since then Israel has been part of the US sphere of influence. Therefore, aligned itself against enemies of US namely Russia, who has been undermining Israel for decades now, funneling money through Iran to Hamas, Hezbollah, etc. to be clear I don’t believe Israel is a pariah state, but you could make the case that a lot of the world has turned against it. Basically my point is that it’s not without the US support, but it’s also due in part to the support of US that Israel finds itself in a pickle, sort of a middle man between super powers- not to mention surrounded by jihadist terrorists hell bent on Israel’s destruction.

hashbit

Israel is openly committing genocide in Gaza and the USA is supplying them with weapons to do so because of the strangle-hold the Jewish lobby has over the US government.  Prior to their current genocidal practices, Gaza was simply and overtly an open air-prison for Palestinians in which Israel denied these poor people even basic human rights to water and other basic needs.   Israel has touted it's victimhood for decades as an excuse for horrific behavior and with it's current actions, the world is no longer buying that line.  Israel warm crimes against Palestinians are easily as horrific as those committed in WWII. Israel is a terrorist nation, plain and simple.  The USA must stop supporting these atrocities.

SeaTie4541

Israel has done what any other country on the planet would do if hundreds of their civilians were kidnapped and murdered by a neighboring region which vowed to continue carrying out such attacks in the future. 

The violence would end tomorrow if Hamas stopped attacking, but they won’t, and so too will Israel continue to defend itself. 

Nothing about that makes them a pariah state any more than the U.S. was when they bombed Tokyo after being attacked at Pearl Harbor, or the bombing of Dresden after Nazi Germany’s aggression toward other European countries. Every country has a right to defend itself after being attacked and Israel is no different.

emmer

You have it backwards.  Israel has many enemies and is hated because the US supports it. Iran and other middle eastern countries see Israel as a US  vassal state and hate Israel because of all the things the US and the west did to the Middle East.  The US and Europe have been meddling in the U.S. long before Israel existed, and as a result, middle eastern countries see Israel as a western colony.  In 1948, Israel had the opportunity to join the USSR side against the U.S.   had they done so, there would be no PLO, and Israel would be another poor middle eastern country.

manhattanabe

I disagree. I don’t think that Israel would be a pariah state if the US pulled support. 

I think it would be a mass graveyard and smoking ruin. I think many of its neighbors would use it to hold a big ol proxy war amongst themselves, like they’ve done since biblical times — and like they do over Gaza. It would not go well for anyone living in or near Israel. That includes the Palestinians. They would suffer pretty badly too. Maybe not as badly as they are right now, but it wouldn’t be great.

Boulange1234

America and Europe were not originally on Israel’s side. As soon as things looked a little dicey Britain was ready to simply walk out and let the Israelis be wiped out.

America only started supporting Israel when the Israelis proved they could do more than stand in their own two feet. 

Criticize Israel all you like - plenty to talk about there.

But let’s not get confused and label them a weak state being propped up with an imbalance of power. It’s just not accurate. 

Flat_Possibility_854

Without US leverage, Israel would do whatever it deemed necessary using overwhelming force. 

Without the support of mealy-mouthed white rich women and college students, Palestinians would never engage in terrorism with widespread abandon as they do now.

Gompiters111

Europe is still generally supportive of Israel. Some have put out words but words are not the same as concrete actions. Simply reviewing a trade deal to appease the public is not a concrete action.

My country for example, the UK, is still very much supportive of Israel in terms of its actions of exporting arms for example. The government defended selling F-35s to Israel because suspending those sales would cause a "profound impact on international peace and security".

hexmasx

You might mean the West, but Israel will always be friends with India. Israel also has more friends in the Middle East itself. So it would never be the "entire" world. 

Israel has a relatively and absolutely high number of tech start-ups as well as advanced cybersecurity, advanced anti-missile and drone systems and advanced agricultural and water filtering technology. If the West is not interested in these things, maybe China and Russia are.

tkyjonathan

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Atschmid

False flag seems almost guaranteed at this point imo. Would not be surprised if it's on American soil

roboticoxen

You wrote some non-truths, which I will address later.


What is important to understand is that *nothing* major that Israel does is independent of the US. It's hard to overstate how much Israel is dependent on the US, and they know it. Very well.


If the US really wanted to avoid a war and to prevent Israel from going on with their operation, it would simply not happen. They have MANY leverages on Israel that they could utilize, for example: threatening to cut defense aid, telling Israel that in case of Iranian retaliation they would not help with intercepting it and/or that they will not share intelligence with Israel, or notify that they will stay neutral on aky UN vote on the matter and not use their veto power, etc. etc.


Attacking Iran is an interest of American imperialism. It's a huge opposing force in the Middle East that thwarts US geopolitical interests in the region. Not just against Israel, but Saudi Arabia, Syria, Lebanon, etc. They are allied with China. They're a pain in America's neck. Weaking their ability to oppose US interests or evem toppling the regime altogether is a clear American foreign affair goal.


Israel can attack Iran because America allows it, and in addition it helps it distance itself publically from this attack (commom US/Israel tactic). Of course Israel would like the US to help and make life easier for them, but if the US chooses not to - tough luck.


Never let liberal Zionists trick you into thinking that any particular behavior of Israel is just Nethanyahu's self-survival craziness. It isn't. There might be tactical disagreements between different Zionist political groups in Israel, but there is no fundamental strategic difference and they all supprt the weakening and/or elimination of Iran as a geopolitical adversary. They might go differently about it, but they're not really an opposition in that sense. Israel attacking Iran is part of overall American imperialist strategy. 


Now for the incorrect stuff you mentioned: there was no downing of a single F-35 by Yemeni forces - there was a single almost-hit. The US didn't lose an F-35 to a carrier accident, it was an F-18E superhornet fighter. And Yemen didn't hit any runway in Ben-Gurion Airport, the explosion occured within the Airport perimeter but away from the runways and taxi ways, and also away from any terminals.

echtemendel

I don’t think you’re wrong to be spooked but I don’t think the ships are there to be false flagged (imo). I think they’re there in preparation/to exert pressure against for a potential Iranian response to a significant escalation from Israel that is probably coming soon. 

If there is a false flag it would probably occur somewhere else (like an American base).

wut_91

Concerns are rising within the US regarding Israeli Prime Minister Netanyahu's military actions in the Middle East, which may undermine diplomatic efforts.

US-Israel Relations and Netanyahu's Military Actions

Why This Matters

Public Sentiment Summary

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What the people want