Public opinion on New Caledonia's independence is mixed, leaning towards moderately negative. Commenters highlight the importance of respecting democratic outcomes, noting past referendums have consistently opposed independence. Concerns center around economic viability and geopolitical implications, specifically potential Chinese influence. Some express empathy for the indigenous Kanak people's desire for self-determination, while others emphasize France's strategic interests in Oceania.

France

Indigenous Kanak population

New Caledonia Government

China

If I understood correctly from news it was mostly the indigenous people that favoured the independence. 

Could it be possible to have a cultural autonomy for them, like Sami people in Nordic countries? If they don't already have one.

vladraptor

I know too little to form an opinion about it.

[deleted]

Understandable decision considering how much support their economy gets from France. Would have understood if they'd decided otherwise though.

Dorgilo

I don't know anything about them, so I can't really have an opinion about that

szoszk

It would make far more sense for such a tiny polity to remain part of France economically and politically: the indigenous peoples would receive far more representation and attention as part of France than they would independently - even if that representation and attention is French first and Kanak second - but I think that every ethnic group has the right to form a sovereign nation-state if they desire that, so I wouldn't hold anything against them if that's what they chose. 

Andolomar

It's good that they voted against, but it is also good that they were given the choice

Reza_Jafari

Given that New Caledonia is a part of France and France is in the EU and losing it would mean a loss of influence in Oceania for France (and by extension the EU) I would most certainly not approve of them becoming independent. 

In_connu

I don't know the background but what i do know is that New Caledonia was the name i chose for my fictional country in one game i played a couple of years back

OriginalHairyGuy

Well, the rate of people who voted in favor of independence, 43%, is just about the 40% rate of people who are of Melanesian descent (aka, Kanaks) as opposed to people of European descent. Should be noted that, to vote, people had to have lived in New Caledonia for a long long while (20 years unless they are young), which explains why the rate is actually higher than the Melanesian population.

So it's pretty clear that the people who have historically been there are in favor of independence, and the people who are historical colonists would rather stay French. What a surprise.

I don't really have a mental model on how to approach what should or should not be done regarding New Caledonia, but something definitely does not feel right.

Brachamul

If Malta, a tiny island with a service economy solely based around serving the English Navy and RAF, managed to survive on it's own with little industry and no natural resources, Caledonia probably could have done it.

Alec_FC

I know someone who's been involved with the negotiations and tbh it sounds like the Europeans living out there are a bit of a nightmare - a lot of them are like 19th century colonialists whose only contact with the indigenous population is as domestic servants. My sympathies are definitely with the natives and I can understand why they want independence.

Lord_Hoot

zapetyt

They decided to stay, and that's okay. Given that most people in favour of independence seem to be the native Kanak people, maybe there could be a way in which they form some sort of self-government within the collectivity of New Caledonia (like the Sami people have).

metroxed

Apparently there were worries among New Caledonia's neighbours that an independent NC would become too influenced by China.

China, being an unfree one-party state under complete control of an oligarchy is not the kind of country that should be allowed to expand its influence even further than it already does IMO.

I thought this said Catalonia and I got really confused when people were talking about France

richardrasmus

If the people of Caledonia want to move to New Caledonia then what's the problem? I mean people moved from York to New York, right? 

collectiveindividual

It makes not sense that New Caledonia is part of France. Indigenous people should decide, not colonists and publice workers from the metropolis.

viktorbir

I don't really get how you can be against your own independence but it's their choice,  so whatever. 

The election is a good result. With independence it would be necessary to have an additional visa in the case of a travel in this region. 

This_Is_The_End

I worry mostly about the implications of climate change and how the people will be able to cope. 

Edit: When it becomes uninhabitable the people have to be relocated to mainland France. I wonder if the government will be ready for that.

The natives wanted independence, the immigrants wanted France. «—A warning for Europe in 100 years», is what my grandma would've said...
—I believe New Caledonia should have stayed in France, but the new caledonians voted for independence. So yeah, it is just as in Catalonia, where the catalonians support independence and the spaniards Spain.

The fine regards at reurope think it's racist for the original inhabitants of the land to not want people who moved in under colonial rule to have a vote in deciding the states independence. I even remember someone trying to make point against palestinians, like Israel doesn't go to ridiculous length to ensure the *right* people get citizenship.

chaal_baaz

Hey everybody, I'm french and lived in New Caledonia for a while during the second and third independence votes. I'm no expert on the subject but I talked regularly with kanaks (the historical people of New Caledonia) about it while there. If you have any question don't hesitate, it's a subject that I'm pretty passionate about.

tokyotochicago

Hi there i'm more of a youtube frog than a chatter so i Wonder if Hasan spoke about that situation on the stream. 
If yes, does anyone know on witch VOD ?

Nadirilitch

Liberté, Egatité, Fraternité! (For me but not for thee!)

"It was the first time that I had been in a French pawnshop. One went through grandiose stone portals marked, of course, ‘*Liberté, Egatité, Fraternité*’. They write that even over the police stations in France." - George Orwell

I’d love to see the French ejected from New Caledonia. Lfg!

Polpruner

Why is France tightening its colonial grip on New Caledonia?

callmekizzle

They have had 3 independence referendums in the last 6 years, in which only those of indigenous ancestry were allowed to vote. Independence lost every time. Even among natives independence is a minority position.

thatguy888034

Warum verschärft Frankreich seinen kolonialen Griff auf Neukaledonien?

Zusammenstöße zwischen Unabhängigkeitsbefürwortern, Polizisten und französische Gendarmen haben das französische Überseegebiet Neukaledonien übernommen, woraufhin der französische Präsident Emmanuel Macron den Notstand über die Inselgruppe im Pazifik verhängte, die etwa 17.000 km vom französischen Festland entfernt liegt.

Die Verhängung des Ausnahmezustands ermöglichte es, mutmaßliche Rädelsführer der wachsenden Unabhängigkeitsbewegung in Hausarrest zu nehmen. Außerdem wurde ein Verbot öffentlicher Versammlungen, der Freizügigkeit und von TikTok verhängt.

Die französischen Streitkräfte bewachen die beiden Flughäfen und den Hafen von Neukaledonien. Die Zahl der Polizisten auf der Insel wurde auf mindestens 2.300 erhöht. In der Zwischenzeit sind schätzungsweise 9.000 Demonstranten in und um die Hauptstadt Nouméa in Aktion.

Französische Siedler, weiße Chauvinisten und französisch loyalistische Gruppen haben ebenfalls begonnen, die „Zivilschutz"-Gruppen zu bilden, um den Demonstranten entgegenzutreten. Mindestens fünf Menschen wurden bei den Zusammenstößen getötet, drei davon sind von der indigene Kanak-Bevölkerung.

Die jüngsten Unruhen flammten auf, nachdem Macrons Regierung mit Hilfe des rechten Flügels eine Verfassungsreform verabschiedet hatte, die das Wahlrecht in Neukaledonien auf Tausende von Franzosen vom französischen Festland ausweitet. Dieser Schritt könnte die indigene Bevölkerung der Kanak weiter marginalisieren und pro-französischen Politikern zugutekommen.

Frankreichs Entschlossenheit, an Neukaledonien, was es 1853 kolonisierte, festzuhalten, kommt in einer Zeit, in der, der chinesische Einfluss im Südpazifik zunimmt und sich die Inselgruppe zu einer Frontlinie in dem sich verschärfenden Konflikt zwischen den Weltmächten entwickelt.

Neukaledonien ist zudem der viertgrößte Nickelproduzent der Welt. Angesichts des steigenden Bedarfs an diesem Mineral für die wachsende Batterie- und Elektrofahrzeugindustrie sind die Rohstoffe der Inselkette in Verbindung mit ihrer strategischen Lage im Südpazifik für die französischen imperialistischen Interessen essenziel.

Die Entdeckung von Nickel und die damit verbundene lukrative Bergbauindustrie war einer der Gründe, warum französische Siedler massenhaft in die Kolonie zogen und die indigene Kanak-Bevölkerung zahlenmäßig übertrafen.

Jetzt, da Frankreich erneut versucht, die indigene Bevölkerung mit französischen Siedlern zu überrennen, verstärken die Kanak ihren Widerstand gegen diese neuen Versuche, ihren Kampf für die Unabhängigkeit zu unterdrücken.

No_-Idea_-For_-Name

Gib den kolonialen hs*innen ein dien bien phu 2.0  🇻🇳

T3ddy_ka

https://preview.redd.it/uxtpqz03le1d1.jpeg?width=1200&amp;format=pjpg&amp;auto=webp&amp;s=3e66eb98bae9568bea37acb47ee0fa15dcb60dc6

GateExciting3753

Stell dir vor du ziehst in ein anderes Bundesland und darfst dort erst nach 25 Jahren wählen. Dann ändert die Regierung das auf 10 Jahre und deine einheimischen Nachbarn rasten aus. Umgekehrt stell dir vor Chinesische Funktionäre winken mit allen möglichen Belohnungen, wenn du in deinem Bundesland rebellierst, die Unabhängigkeit anstrebst und dein Nickel zukünftig nach der Unabhängigkeit günstig an China verkaufen. Die haben da gut nebeneinander gelebt, bis die Kapitalisten aufgekreuzt sind um die Insel auszubeuten.

Sounds like you try to draw us into conflict, de-stabalize the region and wind up western allies against each other.


Are you working for Putin?

Dingo-Gringo

They voted to remain part of France in a referendum less than 4 years ago. I’ll stick with democracy for the moment.

CotswoldP

Last time we told France to fuck off they literally committed a state sponsored act of terrorism and we are still friends...

Yeah NZ ain't doing shit mate, we the yappy lill Pomeranian next door.

Elegant-Raise-9367

Donopto

There has been three democratic referendums that were tilited in the native Kanak peoples favor by not allowing anyone else who moved there after 1998 from voting.  All three have rejected independence with a clear majority and France has a responsibility to protect its citizens.

Violence, terrorism and murder is not a legitimate pathway to independence, the democratic process is the only legitimate pathway in a modern nation.

edit

OP also seems to be suggesting that New Zealand invade New Caledonia...a French territory.  Has anyone seen what France is capable of?  The kind of military it has and that it can certainly deploy assets to the Pacific quickly and it wouldn't be pretty for NZ.

Chaoticfist101

lol NZ won’t be able to do shit compared to France. All it would take would be for France to send down an aircraft carrier full of planes and NZ wouldn’t have an answer for it military wise. 

Given that citizens of New Caledonia will have European passports, they are much better off as they will be able to fly to anywhere in Europe and live and work there without a visa. 

It’s more beneficial for them to be part of France than independent.

Bikerbass

noodlebball

they voted to remain french lol.

better care for nz's cost of living crisis.

zkn1021

duckonmuffin

The last three referenda for independence resulted in the Caledonians voting to remain part of France. A minority are now rioting because France wants to give voting rights to those residents who have lived in New Caledonia for over 10 years. These riots are undemocratic. 

Klein_Arnoster

With what military will NZ help New Caledonia? It'll quickly be taken by Chinese loans and then we'd have a much bigger problem.

stupidusernamefield

Do you understand nz's association with the cook islands

Hi999a

I don’t understand that some don’t realize China will take over in a flash.

You need to read online.

The locals are gonna get slaughtered when they try that and they will.

You want China as a neighbor?

vaindioux

Just watching OP get paid out for their ignorance.

Apprehensive-Gur1686

What is the tiny nation of NZ going to do about a French overseas territory. Emphasis on tiny nation, NZ, French and overseas territory.

Election Losers are rioting, they voted to stay with France,

Edit: personally I blame Donald trump

talkshitnow

Haven't they had a few referendums about this?

bigdreams_littledick

If New Caledonia becomes independent there will be an economically fragile and unstable country without establish governance in the Western Pacific. China will be there with ‘opportunities’ and ‘security’ agreements in a flash. 

That is why as much as the New Zealand public affects to despise the French and be guardians of Pacifika interests our government will support French rule over New Caledonia. They will, of course, keep a neutral and impartial tone so as not to generate resentment among the Kanaks should things fall apart.

Equivalent-Bonus-885

Top_Reveal_9072

NZ is not a player in this matter except for sending any troops to assist its own citizens to evacuate if there are any.

I would say the same thing about Australia’s role.

Socialist_Slapper

The issue is not about a vote for independence. They have had 3 referendums and all failed. The issue is about following Human Right rules and stop a freeze on voting rights for people who have been living there for more than 10 years, but arrived after the freeze was put in place. 
I don't know that NZ would look good when butting in  here, especially considering how we treat tangata whenua here, particularly under this government.

m4r0t3

Ah identity...such good times it has achieved for everyone.

Tikao

Agreed, but only if white new zealanders and white australians fuck off back to England.

PapaZoulou

Apparently the current problems are due to Azerbaijan stirring shite because of Frances support of Armenia, but tis the Internet...

[https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2024/5/17/france-blames-azerbaijan-for-new-caledonia-violence-unpacking-their-spat](https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2024/5/17/france-blames-azerbaijan-for-new-caledonia-violence-unpacking-their-spat)

osricson

The French are a brutal murderous colonising power,they last killed Kanaks in the 1980s,they are responsible for state terrorism in NZ with the Rainbow Warrior bombing.Their troops did mass killing and torture in Algeria when that country wanted independence,nobody should want them in the Pacific.

wiremupi

You're asking r/newzealand, a subreddit which is deeply hostile toward Pasifika and broadly supportive of neocolonialism. Good luck!

Soannoying12

Link to a relevant 1news article - https://www.1news.co.nz/2024/05/16/new-caledonia-clashes-france-declares-state-of-emergency/

Ambitious_Average_87

Considering we were founded on colonialism, we should denounce it but we won't.

SomeRandomNZ

Kanaks are no way good for running a lovely country like New Cal they need help. We’ve stopped going there over the years trouble been brewing. They are largely unfriendly and have seen aggression
Towards tourists. Shame nice place to visit.

Ok_Strike_43

The news this week was eye-opening. All my schoolfriends only go to Raro or Fiji for their school holidays, so I never knew there was a French copy of New Zealand as our neighbor, "New Caledonia." Is it really exactly like New Zealand? People raise sheep, play rugby, grow sauvignon blanc and brew craft beer, go to work in cities - except they speak French?

AlanWakeUpNow

I assume the massive win for No was because of a boycott from the Yes side. Considering last time it was much closer.

Psyk60

I lived in New Caledonia for a few years, I can guarantee that the feelings are way more split than this result shows (mostly around ethnic and economic lines, incidentally).

But then Kiwi's won't be able to take cheap trips to "France"!!

mtreddit4

What's the native population percentage of that island not counting french.

Mahameghabahana

Would an independent New Caledonia be economically viable? I know that they have lots of Nickel reserves, but also that France subsidizes them with about a billion or two a year... 

Also, would Independence (and presumably a very strong role for the Kanaks in the new National Government) lead to a large scale emigration of Europeans, who I would suspect have most of the more economically advanced skill sets that would be needed in an independent New Caledonia?

Along with possible Chinese meddling, I do not see this ending all that well...

JohnnieTango

Voting boycotts are just bad democracy. Not voting is always just voting for “I’m letting others decide” so, to me, unless there’s a minimum turnout threshold, a boycott just means you’re okay if the other side gets their way.

WekX

SteamDingo

I always disagree with the mentality of boycotting legitimate referendums because you disagree with it in one way or another. It never delegitimises the referendum/election in the way they think it does.

emizerri

TVPisBased

Why are they doing another one every year?

VirusMaster3073

Chances are they would become Chinese shortly after their independence. French nuclear arsenal is a very effective deterrent.

Seems the boycott was very effective....

If France doesn't give them another referendum on a different date, I can imagine there'll be some unrest.

Seeing the turnout, they might have actually won if they turned out in similar numbers as last time

a_reasonable_thought

lordZ3d

Piranh4Plant

It should obviously be part of Scotland’s empire, once they get shot of the English.

BrIDo88

This is a map from LeMonde, posted at 12:26 here : https://www.lemonde.fr/politique/live/2021/12/12/referendum-en-nouvelle-caledonie-quelle-suite-apres-la-troisieme-victoire-du-non-a-l-independance_6105742_823448.html

At least there is the legend.

Remy_Weidi

Didn't they have an independence referendum like a few years ago, this feels like an obvious outcome

Why did they even have a vote if support for independence is that low?

truthseeeker

theyre as likely to become independent as australia and new zealand

dbnur

Less than 50% of the population has voted, due to the conditions imposed by the French government.

&gt; On 20 October 2021, the Kanak and Socialist National Liberation Front (FLNKS) called on the French government to postpone the independence referendum to 2022, saying that the Kanak population was in a state of mourning due to the significant COVID-19 infection rate and death toll with that community. The previous week, French High Commissioner Patrice Faure had conditioned the postponing to the health situation going "out of control". Kanaks have extensive mourning rituals lasting up to one year.

There has been a boycott by yes supporters. You must look at the two previous referendums to see the real support:

* [2018 New Caledonian independence referendum](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2018_New_Caledonian_independence_referendum):


       Yes   60,199   43.33%
       No    78,734   56.67%
       turnout   81.01%

* [2020 New Caledonian independence referendum](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2020_New_Caledonian_independence_referendum):

       Yes   71,533   46.74%
       No    81,503   53.26%
       turnout   85.69%

* [2021 New Caledonian independence referendum](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2021_New_Caledonian_independence_referendum):

       Yes    3.51%
       No    96.49%
       turnout   43.90%

So:

* in 2018 there was a a 45,91% of total possibe votes voting for NO.
* In 2020 there was a 45,63% of total possible voters voting for NO. 
* in 2021 there has been a 42,35% of total possible voters voting for NO.

They didn't include the Crested Gecko count

dieItalienischer

Whenever i see a referendum result like that i'm instantly suspicious

cmzraxsn

hahahaha. they should ship some more french over there just to rub it in.

stockss_

Independence is a stupid past century idea.

southern world with black and brown folks revolted from europe after ww2

euro enclaves that are super south like australia and new zealand have different demographics and relationship with europe

The number of people on here defending colonialism is staggering

Beginning_Prune_4018

CaliforniaAudman13

New Caledonia, a French Pacific territory, has faced ongoing challenges relating to its independence from France since the 1998 Nouméa Accord.

New Caledonia Independence from France

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