Public opinion on Russia's development of the AI-powered Su-57M fighter jet is predominantly negative. There is widespread skepticism and criticism around Russia's financial, infrastructural, and corruption-related barriers that are perceived to hinder the production and deployment of these advanced jets. The ongoing conflict with Ukraine and comparisons with China's defense capabilities further highlight concerns about Russia's ability to modernize its military technology effectively. Commenters express distrust in Russia's claims about its military advancement, perceiving such claims as deceptive or exaggerated.

Russia

Sukhoi

China

Ukraine

The Soviets were already trailing behind the US in the tech race in the 80s. The dissolution of the USSR only compounded this; Russia was reeling from the effects of the breakup through the 90s up through the early 00s and the defense industry was not spared from it either. Additionally, they lost many companies that now exist in a different country like Antonov in Ukraine. You mention their lack of aircraft carriers; the Kuznetsov class was built by the Black Sea Shipyard in Ukraine.

Regarding their disparity with China, you can primarily chalk that up to money. Just look at the difference in size of their respective economies and that will correlate very well with the gap in their defense industries. This is also compounded by the amount of their budget that they have to allocate to maintain and upgrade the vast Soviet nuclear arsenal that they inherited.

geezlers

To put it simply, Russia simply doesn't have the financial resources to carry out all these projects all at once and yet chose to do so anyway. Doubly so now that it's been fighting an attritional war for the batter part of 3 years now.

I don't doubt that Russia has the neccesary expertise to carry out these projects as seen with the SU 57. The problem comes when they want to scale up, there just isn't enough resources to make the Su 57 economical even when factoring in the relative Purchasing Power Parity Russia enjoys.

tomonee7358

With the exception of the su-57, I don't think it is fair to say that Russia has failed to develop them. With the T-14 family of vehicles, they seem conceptually sound and functional prototypes/serial production has happened, they just haven't been put into full production. The Su-34 seems to have been quite successful for its intended role. The AK-12 family seems a bit troubled, but it's not like Russia is alone in that, for some reason new service rifles often seem to have challenges. 

The Shtorm class aircraft carriers seem like a pipe dream based on a more modest idea for something that Russia doesn't need. I doubt much money was spent on it. Russia's conventional ambitions don't really go beyond what can be supported by land based aircraft. Aircraft carriers can be super useful for small wars, but the russian approach for that was establishing a network of allies like Syria. 

Ultimately, Russia's problem is money. Prior to the war in Ukraine, the Russian defence budget was a bit larger than the British one. Exchange rates fluctuate, but whatever a dollar was in rubles in Russia got you more than it would in the US, actually the same can be said about all big countries, the US is a very rich and therefore expensive place. The "real" Russian defence budget went further than it would look, both because russian costs(especially salaries but also raw materials) are low in general and because Russia could cheat a bit with conscripts who were paid 30 dollars a month. 

Even if you pretended that Russia's defence budget was 1.5x the size it looked, that's just not enough money to be building super carriers, designing 5th generation fighters, replacing all your army equipment and maintaining a gargantuan nuclear arsenal. Think back to the UK. The British defence budget isn't actually enough to build two big but not really super carriers, buy 5th gen fighters(not develop alone), try to replace a couple of big army systems and maintain a modest nuclear arsenal. I say it isn't actually enough because there was a large budgetary black hole before the increase in defence spending, but that's what the British armed forces were trying to do. 

Russia relied heavily on exporting to India in order to fund that stuff. India's domestic industrial capacity isn't what it needs to be for the ambitions of the Indian armed forces, while the Indian economy as a whole is pretty big. A side effect was that if India wasn't interested, it was hard for Russia to do. 

Why can china do it? Well, china started from a lesser technological base, but it has a far larger economy and thus far more money to spend. It's as simple as that really. The Chinese defence budget also goes further than it looks.

will221996

Su57 has seen combat for nearly a year. They have something like two sqdrns in service. They are at what the US calls low rate production and its likley it will be scaled up, t[he factory has been expanded,](https://www.aviacionline.com/rostec-expands-industrial-capacity-to-accelerate-su-57-production)
The 2022 era memes about it are really outdated.
The T14, well that seems to be a system they aren't really oputting into production for now. The Ukraine expeience may well have made them rethink it.

aaronupright

It is more than money.. Russia doesn't have the infrastructure and the sub contractors to handle production of present day military equipment.. It takes more than money.. It takes allowing a long list of subcontractors in handling detail parts..  The corruption and graft within Russia is huge..   United Aircraft Corporation (The main conglomerate that makes Russian Fighters) has to take out huge bank loans in order to meet payroll, because they are waiting for money from the Russian Government, (aka much of goes to Nomenklatura of Putin's circle).  So if aircrafts were  produced, it  is few and far between..

The main Russian Shipyards to lay a keel for an Aircraft Carrier are around Murmansk , which is pretty rough place to have dry docks, given it is above the Arctic Circle..  (Admiral Kuznetsov had a crane crashed on its flight deck from a floating dry dock). The only group that has the shipbuilding prowess in Russia are the former Submarine manufacturers in Murmansk area..   Once again, for any major project in Russia, Corruption is endemic.. (Ask the Indians about their refitting the former hybrid carrier Kiev into an aircraft carrier for the Indian Navy, it took years and billions more in dollars to get this project done).

Sub Contractors have a tough time trying to survive in this environment..  So either they are bought out by a top Russian Oligarch favored by Putin, or they simply disappear..  Whatever money is in their bank account is most likely sent off shore..

There is a reason that China, which has its own problems building a 21st Century Armed Forces can build aircraft carriers, nuclear submarines and modern aircraft, is their more vast infrastructure than Russia..

Projects like the Euro Fighter, which are very expensive, but the EU can at least farm out many of the contractual work to top of the line firms across Europe..  Ditto with the vast US Military Industrial Complex.. (places like Brazil can produce aircraft more for commercial use, but they have the infrastructure)

Russia main weakness is their endemic corruption, that makes producing state of the art military equipment difficult or in very small batches..

Shigakogen

even the US's record post cold war on this front isn't exactly stellar either. people complained about F-35 yet USAF actually had the best record of all the branches: just look at the series of debacles afflicting US army and USN. Even the nuclear part wasn't so good, the quote on replacing Minutemen 3 missile was so outrageous that one must wonder if the whole triad thing would actually hold 10 to 20 years from now.

Ok-Stomach-

There is a very strong bias in the Russian military industrial complex against what they view as western style products. Nationalistic thinking in the MIC is always a major factor. 

Just in terms of the T-14 project the Ukraine war really killed it. I was watching an interview (on a pro Russian channel) with a former Russian FSB guy talking about Ukraine and he was talking about how the Ukraine war and Russian experience fighting modern western MBT really killed the T-14 project bc there was a major fear that they had fallen heavily behind modern tanks but the actual difference in battlefield performance between Ukraine T-series and modern western MBT was so negligible that Russian planners basically decided that the t-14 wasn’t worth mass production. T-72 modernization and modification is viewed as the future of the conflict. 

The t-14 really was viewed as a western style tank internally which also probably explains the slow roll out pre war as well. 

Another interesting thing he mentioned is how different the war time R&amp;D is in Russia vs peacetime and with the war on they focused find what field solutions troops are making that work and trying to evaluate them and then scale them up. Apparently the turtle tank thingy was considered a major success and is getting a factory turtle kit soon. On the t-72. Apparent stories of turtle tanks taking atgm hits and keeping going impressed a lot of the Russian internal R&amp;D. And active APS has not been quite as effective as everyone had hoped. 

I also got them impression that the Interviewee himself was against the western style thinkers internally, he mentioned changing mindset around making new technology more around something like a AK-47 with ease of mass production becoming the focus vs prototyping. And he was sounding alarm bells about how much of Russian drone production is actually modification of production in china and in no Russian drone except the Geran isn’t dependent on Chinese production. 

Aside from the T-14 I think it’s interesting to look at projects which don’t have a bias against them like the missile programs which are quite modern and rolled into mass production quite successfully. Russians view missiles as very Russian. Iskander, Tornado etc.

Against my point are 3 western style systems that rolled out quickly and bigly, the FAB jdam clone kit, orlan recon drones, and krasnapol guided artillery shells. These are all very western style and rolled out into mass production quite quickly and successfully. the FAB kits, you can credit the war but the other 2 were done and in production prewar. It would be very interesting to figure out how certain projects get tagged with the “western” tag in the Russian MOC.

count210

I don't think they have enough to endure losses

Medula_

I don’t have any specific non-open source intelligence, but I would wager that it’s a combination of multiple potential factors:

- They are high-value low-density assets, because the Russian industrial base has been hobbled by sanctions and technology restrictions, exacerbating an already low rate of production — the Su-57 is essentially hand built 

- They aren’t nearly as capable as Russian state media claims and they’re worried that revealing as such would impact foreign sales or support

- They want to limit the ability of western governments to collect intelligence on the capabilities of the platforms in actual combat

- They don’t have enough trained operators/they don’t want to lose the skilled operators they do have

dvsmith

For the SU-70 the answer is quite simple, it is not produced for the moment. It “should” be produced at the end of the year (source: https://www.opex360.com/2024/01/26/la-production-en-serie-du-drone-de-combat-russe-s-70-okhotnik-b-devrait-bientot-debuter/) 


For the SU-57 it is probably used in the war against Ukraine because even the Ukrainian themselves say it is used (source: https://kyivindependent.com/russias-su-57-hype-versus-reality/#:~:text=%22So%20far%2C%20the%20Su%2D,that%20regularly%20attack%20Ukraine’s%20cities.)


Probably not in large scale, low risk, low intensity missions, but still used.

BestResult1952

They don't have very many. Roughly a couple dozen Su-57s are in active service (they built at least a dozen pre-production aircraft for flight testing, but those aren't combat capable), and you're always going to be short available aircraft because some will be broken down at any given time. Plus they've lost one or two to Ukrainian drones. They may only barely have enough aircraft on the ramp to qualify for IOC status.

Some of the critical components that's under the skin of the Su-57 is an evolution of what's already in service with the Su-35. So they're not going to be able to do much of anything that an advanced Flanker can't already do.

It's looking more and more like the Su-57 is just a swing and a miss.  I’ll be shocked if they’re ever fielded in any serious numbers.

The single-engine delta you're thinking of is the S-75. It hasn't progressed beyond the wooden mockup stage. Yeah, what they showed off wasn't an actual aircraft, it was a prop. And that's not uncommon in the industry. Western manufacturers have sent mockups to major airshows before the actual planes are built to drum up interest in their programs. The S-75 was designed specifically with the export market in mind.

RobinOldsIsGod

Russia has been using their SU-57 in active service, they just have been keeping over friendly air space when it deploys missiles.

Pattern_Is_Movement

The Su-57 is used. It's most likely the platform that shoots the Kh-69s that land inside Ukraine. Meaning it's the most likely culprit for the destruction of the Trypilska Thermal Power Plant. Although perhaps that could also have been T-50s, which are pre-serial Su-57 prototypes, so not production spec Su-57S.

But they're not featured heavily because there are like 22 Su-57S in service, mostly uses for training of future pilots. While there are 10 (perhaps 9 depending on the damage of the one that was struck) T-50s. However some of these don't have the full spectrum of what the Su-57 has. Some T-50s for example lack the composites used on the later T-50s and Su-57s, meaning they use more metal, this equals a stronger radar return and higher weight. Some of the earlier T-50s also don't have functional IWBs, again this isn't lending itself to low observability.

The S-70 UCAV isn't in serial production yet. Production is expected to start late 2024 or early 2025.

[deleted]

I think the Russians don't want to use the Su-57S they have and they would rather wait for the Su-57M production to start using the aircraft operationally. Also probably they don't want them to be shot down because they are expensive, and it would look bad for any of their export customers.

Shadder3kks

Russia is always spreading propaganda about how amazing and advanced their tech is. Admittedly, my favorite YouTube channel to watch videos about Russian jets is that Russian channel in English, with the dark haired guy. But that's hella fake, anytime a Russian speaks English, you should be wary.

The truth is historically, their planes are often either dysfunctional or too expensive. The SU-57 was aiming way beyond their means, and they've barely managed to produce a fleet. In other circumstances, it would be able to safely operate, but the 57 simply is too precious to lose over an invasion of Ukraine. Ideally, their flagship fighter would be mass producible and sellable, like the US F-35. There are projected to be thousands of F-35's in a decade or two, because as expensive as it is, the US is able to produce them on that scale, and there's already hundreds of them in service right now

brttwrd

Probably because of the engine.

Su-57 supposed to have “izdelie 30”, opposed to what is being used now - upgraded ALF-41, that is used also by su-35, this is might be the reason su-57 not being actively produced.

As for the price, Russia produce around two or three Su-35 per month and probably one or two Su-34. Officially su-57 is two times expensive, while it’s a step increase it doesn’t look that drastic.

Last bit, I assume the edge it has compared to other planes is not that critical in Ukraine with only patriot being serious threat.

Delicious-Service-19

They almost certainly don't work as advertised, and Putin would rather keep the idea that Russia has fighters capable of competing with the US' alive.

AKidNamedGoobins

Bragging and boasting is very likely all they have to equip their Air Force with. Sweet expensive complicated stealth jets need maintenance, crews, trained pilots, weapons, fuel, logistics, spare parts, etc. They either don't have any that are fully operational, not enough trained pilots, no logistics, reluctance to lose any or all of the above. Which means, either way, they're useless. Shiny toys don't win wars (see: Nazi Me-262 jets vs piston-powered aircraft, that big railway gun they used during the siege of Sevastopol, V1 and V2 rockets, FG-42 rifle, Tiger tanks, etc), logistics and sheer numbers of people and stuff do. Russia would need dozens to hundreds of those jets running daily sorties in order for them to matter enough to turn the tide and gain true air superiority. 

Ukraine is getting up to 80 F16's and frankly I don't think those will turn the tide much either. You need people, food, ammo, and armor to win this war. A few nice jets striking targets is a PR win at best, they're not game-changers or tide-turners. It's just one piece of a huge puzzle.

Stuntz

sgonefan

I guess this is about different tactics.SU-57 it's a jet of new generation,made for big war,and this is not worthy to risk lives of pilots and money,when the other generation fighters still doing their job well enough.

PrimarisShnel

Sukhoi has major issues with the manufacturing. They are behind a few years even with the Su-35 iirc

cesam1ne

The only reason is that antiaircraft weapons are too powerful on both sides. Any fighter that approaches the AA systems will be destroyed. That is a fact.

Al1301

They do use them MSM won't cover them plus if you believe MSM and there lies prapoganda then no hope for you ppl do your own research you will be shocked what you will discover compared to the nonsense MSM is feeding you all.

Strike-Eagle-2

It was shown in the very beginning’s of the war that Russian stuff wasn’t up to snuff. I’m sure that’s not what Putin was told. I’m sure all of his generals one year before the war began were telling Putin he was swinging the biggest bat on the block. One example is the tanks supposedly covered with reactive armor. There’s video of Ukrainian soldiers opening the boxes and where there should have been plastic explosives, there was strips of rubber. Some oligarchs and some generals pocketed the money for the real thing. Also the Russian personnel, those people were not legitimately prepared for war. Captured Russians were reporting they were not issued bullets for training and sometimes they were given wooden weapons.
The vaunted Spetsnaz turned out to be drunks. They were supposed to be Putins Sardaukar!  The only effective troops who went over the border were Wagner Group mercenaries.
I’m sure these issues are endemic in Russia just like the corruption is. It’s naive to think the corruption you find everywhere else in Russia doesn’t exist in Russian Aviation. In aviation you have to be 100% on your game. Even when you are your maintenance downtime is multiples of flight time. They’re not putting their good shit up because they don’t want their exposure to be completely known.

Spodiodie

I’d guess for 2 reasons.  

First is they probably don’t want to show them to world on this stage yet. In the same reason you don’t want to your opponent to see all your plays in the playbook ahead of time until you need to run them.  Whether that is to hide how they really aren’t as good as they are made out to be or if they have more capability than advertised, don’t know. 

Second guess is they are probably really expensive. Russia doesn’t seem to mind using cheap cannon fodder.  Ukraine hasn’t had cutting edge stuff, so they probably keep their expensive stuff out of the line of fire so they have it as a deterrent for other people (nato) 

Grungy_Mountain_Man

Because their jets have none of the capabilities they claim. They just make them look like whatever the West has.

You can count the number of Felons they have on your fingers.  
You can count the number of Hunter-Bs they have on your nipples.  
They’re not deploying them in numbers for the simple reason that they don’t _have_ any numbers

jocax188723

That was definitely a "holy fuck" by the pilot lol

Cruel2BEkind12

I thought it was a picture and I was looking for the SU-35

TheJudge20182

ligmaballs22

I wonder how much it’s gonna take until there’s an actual shoot down

Mustang_Dragster

Seems a bit more that just a "head butt" manoeuvre.

72corvids

“HOLY FUCK” lmao his ass cheeks clenched hard as hell rn

Legitimate-Donut-308

I bet his cheeks clenched so hard he could have made diamonds.

DoctorTim007

beach_2_beach

I’d say the US pilot was fairly tempted to lock on it.

Airblazer

[NORAD tweet](https://x.com/NORADCommand/status/1840776113846468898)

Conduct like that is begging for a shoot down incident. Looks like a F/A-18 on the intercept? Surprised it wasn't the F-22 Raptors based in Alaska

Sprintzer

bokan

Its nothing new that Russian fighter pilots act like frat guys in jets. Theyve done this for yearsss.

helmer012

rbartlejr

“I don’t know what happened, one second the asshole cut in front of me, the next a sidewinder went up his ass. Must have been a fire control malfunction.”

kevon87

F 16? I’d love to watch that dog fight lol

wubb7

too close for guns goose, switching to punches.

Then-Manufacturer825

How long until one of these turns deadly?

Fattyyx

Khamvom

What happened to this sub? Feels like 90% of the people here have no idea about what’s going on here and every other comment is “if that was me I’d lock onto him.”

KnightofWhen

One-Chemical7035

That right there is beyond serious BS. That Flanker driver overplayed its hand and damn near caused a fatal mid-air.

At first I was sure this was a video game. The media gets all panicky about Russian aircraft running patrols off US shore when we also do it daily and it's an understood part of the game. 

But.... **Holy shit** that was dangerous!

Also, this kind of undisciplined 'piloting with your dick' is exactly why the Russian Air Force would be multiple clouds of ash in an actual shooting war with US/NATO. Stupid.

Chrissthom

DarkBoy8888

That’s gopro. And the objects is closer than it appear, like way too close.

Fionarei

What is the big plane in the background? Looks Russian. So is the US jet coming too close to the big Russian bird so the su-35 is kind of protecting it? 

junohd

kevindaniel89

cimolkotak

The russian pilot is blasting tri poloski

Russia/China....always the top notch professional that will then lie about the interaction. As usual.

DaRiddler70

GrizlBck1401

SFerrin_RW

Its like that scene of titanfall 2 that viper appears haha. Or some type of ace combat cinematic very sick

alexos77lo

The game of "I'm not touching you". Sometimes they collide like the spy plane and fighter near China. Sometimes they dump fuel...

bluebadge

This the type of shit you see in War Thunder shortly after takeoff lol

WOLF1218

squeezeasscheeks

I commute to work on a motorcycle through Philly everyday and this did not seem dangerous to me.

Pilot should’ve seen it coming in his side  mirrors.

KUPA_BEAST

Nah this is footage of me playing DCS with my buddies

Generic_username5500

“In Soviet Russia, American fighter intercepts SU!”

The-Kid-Is-All-Right

Russians once again proving why they shouldn’t be allowed out their borders

3BM60SvinetIsTrash

Like why does everyone make joke that the F-16 pilot wants to kill the SU-35 pilot.  This guy probably isnt a fucking war mongerer.

wendyscombo65

roywilliams31

I thought our aircraft had radars? Wouldn't the pilot know that there is a russing jet in their airspace?

CharmingSecond7

Want to get shot down? Cause that's how you get shot down.

120decibel

Coast of Russia 🇷🇺  or coast of Alaska?

sillyaviator

Time to send up the kid. Give him the intercept he deserves.

feraxks

I would have no control, I'd shoot it down.

Tasty-Plankton1903

I know pilot is flying protective detail but would he not be allowed to pursue the Su? I’m not sure an f16 would be able to catch up tbh. Assuming it is a falcon

Edit: didn’t see they were shadowing a bear already

benjuuls

Independent-Sir-1535

Mhm. Posturing, the same as China. Both of which are glass houses filled with empty shells of a military. Just as China postures against the Philippines, so does Russia. There's a reason Americans work massive overtime and pay massive taxes....

HotpantsDelFuego

I hope that pilot immediately locked that plane up so that the Russians RWR quickly informed the pilot that “find out” mode was imminent.

Davethephotoguy

grant0208

How recent was this? Or was it recent at all?

Outside_Jaguar4937

I bet the rwr on that flanker was going crazy the moment he did that 

Bigshow225

OddBoifromspace


We determined that this submission originates from a credible source, but we still advise that users double check the facts and use common sense when consuming mass media. If you are interested in learning how to evaluate news sources more thoroughly, you can begin to learn about how to do that [here](https://tacomacc.libguides.com/c.php?g=599051&amp;p=4147190).


*I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/ukraine) if you have any questions or concerns.*

AutoModerator

Damn Russia just lost like 5% of their 5th generation fighters

Chedward_E_Cheese

They'll put garden sheds on tanks and motorcycles but refuse to put stealth aircraft in hangars.

tempetransplant

Very good news to start the day. May Russia burn forevermore 🔥

Futurismes

On the ground: "A cutting-edge Russian Su-57 multi-purpose fighter jet was struck at the Akhtubinsk airfield in Russia's Astrakhan Oblast, 589 kilometres from the war zone in Ukraine, on 8 June."

You're hungry Budanov, I can see it in your eyes. You ready to feed that hunger even more? Huh? You ready for another strike?

Gek-keG

[By the looks of their rage, it’s gone completely lol](https://imgur.com/a/sYl4EGS)

denarti

TicketCareless

Nah. It's just the latest russian ground based air defence system designed to receive drones and effectively destroy them.

Iamoggierock

Too scared to risk using them in Ukraine, now they're not even safe in russia.

canspop

Fucking lol. At least it was hit on the ground, that'll be some consolation to them. I think this is actually a historic moment - first 5th Gen loss in combat.

tree_boom

pro-moscovian fighterbomber confirms.

plane being assessed on if it can be repaired.  no matter what, moscovia will repair it, even if it means it has to dismantle three other Su-57s to prove it.

that is moscovian logic.

Longjumping-Nature70

Russia simply does not have an effective defense against these long-range drone attacks. While I am certain Ukrainians have to work hard to execute, to have them succeed again and again is a big problem for the Russian war machine.

GreenNukE

"It was totally a drone that hit it. No really, it was." -- F-22 pilot casually sidling stealthily towards the exit

An_Odd_Smell

eat_dick_reddit

DrazGulX

Wow! What weapon took it out?

edit: I think it was a Ukrainian drone.

VirtualManager6621

Russia is testing AI-enhanced Su-57M fighter jets, demonstrating advancements in military technology that interest global powers and challenge air warfare dynamics.

Russian Su-57M AI-Powered Fighter Jet Development

Why This Matters

Public Sentiment Summary

Highlighted Comments

Parties Involved

What the people want