Public sentiment is sharply polarized regarding the Iran-Israel conflict, reflecting a complex interplay of support and condemnation directed at both governments. Many express outrage at Iran's human rights violations and the use of executions without due process, while others view Israel's military actions as necessary for liberation from the Iranian regime. A significant portion of commenters call for accountability and justice, suggesting deep concerns about the implications of violence on innocent civilians and the narratives propagated by media sources.

Iran

Israel

International Media

Consistent_Prune6979

You're comparing Israel striking a country miles away from it's border (for no reason, still a war crime) to the situation in Gaza where they 1) have limited aid entering the strip 2) constantly bomb hospitals with no proof of Hamas military underneath 3) have constantly referred to Palestinians as animals and talked about relocating them. There's more but that would take too long to write.

You're comparing an apple to a cupcake here in a desperate attempt to defend the IDF's actions in Gaza (while also downplaying their actions).

Abceloo

Why did Israel target and kill people in the news station and the prison? Israel just can't refrain itself from committing war crimes.

TISETDSE

There are 92m people in Iran over an area of around 1.6m sq km. 2m Gazans in an area of 365 sq km.

That’s 57 people per sq km in Iran vs 5500 people per sq km in Gaza. Do you think that might have something to do with hiding in tunnels? There is no where to go and no where to hide. The infrastructure is so dense.

Israel have also taken out over 100 people in one go to get one Hamas target (that turned out to even be there).

Reports of playing audio of children crying to lure people in to the open to attack by drone… it’s a genocide.

RecordGreat

Israel didn't kill 400,000 Palestinians in Iran.

PLUTO_HAS_COME_BACK

This is such an L take. What Israel did to Iran is no where near what it's currently (as in today there were bombings and killings) in Gaza. Many Israeli ministers have publicly stated they want to empty out Gaza and claim the land for Israel.

Camel_Jockey919

We aren’t accusing Israel of genocide in Iran because they have not attempted to carry out genocide in Iran.  Thanks for pointing out that our accusations of genocide are rational &amp; backed up by every renowned scholar of genocide on Earth &amp; that we are *not* making accusations of genocide out of antisemitism or anti Israel hate.  

If anything, the strikes in Iran ~~prove~~ reinforces that Israel IS capable of taking out military targets without leveling 80% of the homes &amp; structures of their “enemies.”  That the IDF can behave more responsibly in Iran further reinforces that the destruction of hospitals, every university, all civilian infrastructure, water systems, etc, in Gaza is due to genocidal intent in Gaza.  

See American Israeli historian, scholar, &amp; liberal Zionist, Shaiel Ben-Ephraim’s recent substack article, [I Used To Say Israel Was Not Committing A Genocide In Gaza; I was Wrong.  This is why.](https://shaielbenephraim.substack.com/p/i-used-to-say-israel-was-not-committing)

5LaLa

Oh trust me, there are attempts XD

As well as whitewashing how "noble" and "humane" Iran is... completely ignoring the various human rights violations but SHHHHHH Whoopi Goldberg, a black woman, says its worse to be black in America than to be a woman in Iran.

The oppression Olympics is ongoing.

QuillPenMonster

Genocide against Regime i wish !!! Those minds should never have a chance to live !!

Manoftruth2023

People need to understand that government can be convicted of genocide while the country isn’t. See Serbia. 

This could very well be that, given the only evidence of intent is the speech of government officials. 

mongooser

Why Iran was not killing much civilians like israel, while Israel clearly using Israeli civilians as human shields in israel... They built military buildings under tel avive hospitals...also many other human shield buildings...why many bases under schools and hospitals under tel alive...like under the civilian buildings

Then also there was less casualties in israel compared to Israel did in Iran 

Also why every Zionist acting as  idiots...
Can they see these statistics... Or is it because every Zionist is a hipocrite

Or are Zionists really idiots...like mentally unfit or unintelligent

Known-Platform1735

Might have to do with the fact Israel isn't trying to annex Iranian territories so it'd rather save its missiles for the ethnic cleansings .

Foxintoxx

Gaza has been a sustained slaughter with wide scale destruction of the basic necessities for sustaining life. At the same time Israel has restricted or even completely stopped allowing those basic needs to enter Gaza. Medical supplies, food, fuel, water. Everything.

Israel is killing dozens of Palestinians every day and they have clearly stated that they have no intention of operating in a different manner. If you keep doing the same thing over and over and over despite the same bad outcomes that is intent.

There have been forced migrations and when the Palestinians reach the designated areas they are still being bombed and killed.

The flattening of entire cities is a clear effort to obliterate any form of shelter for the population.

It just keeps going. I didn't call it a genocide until about 6 months into the invasion. The sustained nature of Israel's conduct clearly indicates a systemic process to intentionally destroy Palestinians in Gaza in whole or in part.

That is not what is happening in Iran.

Edit - I don't care who you want to blame. 

Israel did these things. Israel has agency. Israel made its decisions and they should be held to account for their actions.

Edit 2 - Hamas can fuck off. They failed the people of Gaza.

jimke

The IDF/Mossad targeted apartment buildings in Teheran in hopes of killing one elderly general in his sleep. The narrative was lost then. The Iranians reconstituted their forces in 14 hrs and fought the Israeli military to a ceasefire that ended without any of Israel's war aims being met. Imagine if the IDF had put all of its efforts into achieving a small but achievable goal as opposed to this PR regime change nonsense? Or complete denuclearization of a country of 92 million? 

The IDF is coming across as the military version of this deranged Belorussian. Senseless violence, talking to itself like an echo chamber and restrained by a superpower when it goes off the rails. How no one here seems to realize the danger of this strategic myopia is beyond me.

[https://x.com/clashreport/status/1937833524670660927](https://x.com/clashreport/status/1937833524670660927)

If even Trump and MAGA are growing tired of Israeli antics imagine the attitude of the next POTUS.

Israel needs to immediately eject Bibi, send him to the ICC if the courts can't handle him. Declare an immediate end to Gaza, bring the hostages home and let the UN feed those people. Cut a deal with Saudi Arabia and the GCC for an extended abhraham accords in return for a Palestinian bantustan. Trump will be. offered all the credit. Open a line of communication to Teheran thru Qatar and begin deescalating. Force a deal with Al Qaeda in Damascus to finalize borders. Withdraw from Lebanon completely, even the Sheba farms and any other contested areas and then finalize the borders while Hezbollah is still weak. Then spend a peaceful generation rebuilding.

KappaBera

Has Israel destroyed over 90% of the homes in Iran? Are virtually all Iranians living in refugee camps and having to risk their lives for meager rations everyday? 

Nobody actually criticizes Israel for going after terrorists or military equipment. It's the attacks on civilians and civilian infrastructure that lead to genocide accusations.

blyzo

Iran’s army is not deliberately embedded into civilians, kindergartens, hospitals, homes. Their army has actual bases. Their soldiers wear uniforms. 

Hamas embeds as deeply into civilian life by-design, by-strategy and by-convenience. They usually use uniforms only when *not fighting*.

Also, Iran’s population is largely upset with their oppressive regime, whereas in Gaza far more civilians ate supportive of the Hamas regime; when IDF does “roof knocking” in Gaza, Hamas scramble to bring civilians, kids, anyone to go stand on the roof in hopes of preventing the actual destruction of the structure. Conversely, Iranian’s aren’t interested to sacrificially protect the mullah. Iranians literally sang and danced in front of Israel’s embassy in the UK when Khaminei’s generals were eliminated.

You can easily find the videos and sources by searching any part I mentioned with a google search.

DiscipleOfYeshua

The bigger difference between Gaza and Iran is that Israel's ability to transport munitions to Iran is bottlenecked by air-refuelling and airframe logistics, whereas Gaza is very literally in Israel's backyard.

Israel therefore has to prioritise strikes on genuine high-priority military targets in Iran in a way it has never bothered to do in Gaza, and could not generate the same broad-spectrum destruction even if it wanted to.

Even then we have seen something like three separate IDF strikes on Iranian hospitals.

Tallis-man

The people Israel call "human shields" [HAVE been hit in Iran](https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/c0m81jg8k4no), but you don't understand what "human shields" means when Israel says it.

I don't condemn this, [2024 drone attack on Benjamin Netanyahu's residence](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2024_drone_attack_on_Benjamin_Netanyahu%27s_residence), I have mixed feelings about whether it was justified. But whether it was justified or not, there were no children in the family shop it's not as bad as what the IDF do, but even though she's an adult I wouldn't call Sara Netanyahu a "human shield" for living in the same building as a wanted war criminal, they were family.

Likewise, this mother and baby were not human shields. They were killed when a family home was struck by an IDF airstrike. It also killed Ali's sister, but she was buried separately because it took 3 days to recover her body from the rubble of the multi story residential building.

The airstrike also killed a mother and her two teenage sons from another family who lived in the building.

https://preview.redd.it/msy31jjw339f1.png?width=843&amp;format=png&amp;auto=webp&amp;s=5e8a5021ff7f930f935901b6c2edf9176fd80e87

Those two families were killed in 2014, with about 154 other families. Most of them were only guilty of having neighbours who Israel wanted dead.

I chose a zoomed out photo to be less graphic, because gore is not the point. Also, so the flag was clear.

I suspect [the guy they were trying to kill](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deif_family_killings) was not at home with his wife, I sometimes wonder whether the IDF even care if he was, or if they kill family members as deterrent?

When the baby's dad announced the 7 October 2023 attacks, one of his reasons he gave for the attack was:

&gt;The Zionist colonial occupation has occupied our Palestinian homeland, displaced our people, destroyed our towns and villages, perpetrated hundreds of massacres against our people, killing children, women, and elderly people and demolished homes with their inhabitants inside, in violation of all international norms and laws and human rights conventions.

From: [10 October 2023 archive of 7 October 2023 statement via web.archive.org](https://web.archive.org/web/20231010053430/https://en.alqassam.ps/statement/1552/Statement-by-Al-Qassam-Brigades-Chief-of-Staff-Mohammed-Deif)

And yes, that's an archive of Qassam propaganda (the site is now defunked), but Israel have never even bothered pretending that they didn't deliberately hit that family home.

Killing people's families doesn't reduce the number of people who wane to kill you. Thousands of people attend that funeral.

Striking their targets in their family homes is an established tactic, during the genocide in Gaza they called this tactic "daddy's home".

kmpiw

People also seem to forget the fact that Iran has been threatening to wipe Israel off the map for the last 40 years. I think we need to start taking what their leaders say at face value, especially now that they are pursuing a nuclear program.

midtown_museo

Israel's military devices are right smack dab in the middle of very populated city areas. They too are using the citizens as human shields.

I'll say it each time...

The reason you rarely hear us pro-Palestinian folks blaming Hamas for everything under the sun is because when we're asked or expected to acknowledge it, it's always super bad-faith framing. Hamas's actions do not, in any way shape or form, excuse the actions that the Israeli government have taken against Palestinians.

  
EDIT: I'll concede that I might be wrong about weapons in city centers, at first I had found articles noting those being weapons actually launched against Iran and not for defense, and now I don't see those.

chyldofthebeat

I haven't used the word 'genocide' to describe what's been happening in Gaza, simply because there hasn't been a legal ruling on it yet. But your argument that Israel's behaviour in Iran is proof against genocidal intent in Gaza is weak. 

I don't think the use of human shields by Hamas absolves Israel of the obligation to protect civilians in Gaza.   
  
It's not only that Israel doesn't do enough to protect civilians, some Israeli soldiers have admitted that the IDF has used similar tactics in Gaza, such as human shields. 

Both Hamas and the IDF have caused immense death and suffering in Gaza.

AlwaysReadyGo

no it's strictly because the paliwood, the leftists and the Communist were actually convinced Iran is winning, with enough time they would have realized they were losing and started with the genocide cries, it happened the same way with hamas and Hezbollah in the first days

Other-Carrot-958

That's a great question! Why have not people accused Israel that its attack on Iran was a genocide?

Some people are assuming in the comments "that's because the war did not last long enough". But that is not the reason. In Lebanon, the war has lasted for months, yet nobody denounces it a genocide.

So why? Are the Lebanon war, or Iranian one, or Syria's invasion not called genocides?

Because people are condemning a genocide on the basis of the Israeli officials' claims! They are not making it up. Israeli officials did not claim genocidal intents for Lebanon or Iran or Syria, but they did very clearly and systematically for Gaza.

Just a sample here:

Nissim Vaturi, Deputy Speaker of the Knesset : "Erase Gaza. Nothing else will satisfy us. It is not acceptable that we maintain a terrorist authority next to Israel. Do not leave a child there, expel all the remaining ones at the end, so that they will not have a resurrection."

Yoav Gallant, Defense Minister: "We are fighting human animals and we are acting accordingly."

Itamar Ben Gvir, National Security Minister: "Now is time for destruction, annihilation, and devastation.”

Isaac Herzog, President of Israel: “It’s an entire nation out there that is responsible. This rhetoric about civilians not aware, not involved, it’s absolutely not true.”

Netanyahu, compares Gaza to Amalek, a people God supposedly asks to erase the memoy of in the Torah (Deutéronome 25:19)

Amichai Eliyahu, Heritage Minister, 2023: "Nuking Gaza is an option, people should go to Ireland or to the desert"

Finance Minister Bezalel Smotrich : “The unequivocal goal of the war we are in the midst of is \[…\] the complete dismantling of \[military and\] civilian capabilities”.

Minister of the Advancement of the Status of Women May Golan : "I don't care about Gaza. I literally don't care at all. They can go out and swim in the sea. I want to see dead bodies of terrorists around gaza."

MP Boaz Bismuth : “We must not show mercy to cruel people, there is no place for any humanitarian gestures – we must erase the memory of Amalek”

Likud MP Revital Gotliev : "Without hunger and thirst among the Gazan population, we will not succeed in recruiting collaborators, we will not succeed in recruiting intelligence, \[or\]... in bribing people with food, drink, medicine, in order to obtain intelligence.”

Likud MP Amit Halevi : “there should be 2 goals for this victory: 1. There is no more Muslim land in the Land of Israel… After we make it the land of IL, Gaza should be left as a monument, like Sodom…”

perniface512

EXACTLY! Thank you for pointing this out it the world

gunr1006

It's all about taking revenge against terrorists. I remember after 9/11 how focused America was on destroying Al Qaeda at all costs and going through anything and anyone who got in the way - Americans cheered as Afghans died. Given the atrocities of Oct 7th. nothing but the total destruction of Hamas will satisfy Israel and God save anyone who gets in the way. I don't blame Israel now, as I can't blame Americans after 9/11 who sought revenge, plain and simple. Israel will never allow Hamas to win and will stop at nothing to achieve victory.

h2ohow

Because, we don't actually accuse Israel of genocide constantly for no reason.

The attack on Iran is wrong, but for different reasons. Israel are the only nuclear armed military in the middle east, they have launched an unprovoked attack for Iran having early stage research and energy infrastructure, nowhere near an actual weapon, Israel have 100 warheads and capacity to triple that. Even Hawkish USA sources don't buy Israel's accusation in a mirror.

&gt;"Have you noticed that Israel has killed very few civilians in Iran while taking out many military targets?"

This is actually Iranian propaganda, probably also told by Israel. Iran are downplaying death tolls to look less weak and more in control of the situation. Their way to undermine the Irgun [Dahiya doctrine](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dahiya_doctrine) is to downplay the impact.

I see you quoting a lot of scripture, but nothing from Christ himself. So here’s what Jesus said:

“Love your enemies and pray for those who persecute you.” (Matthew 5:44)
“Blessed are the peacemakers, for they shall be called sons of God.” (Matthew 5:9)
“Put your sword back into its place. For all who take the sword will perish by the sword.” (Matthew 26:52)
“Do not resist an evil person. If someone slaps you on the right cheek, turn to them the other also.” (Matthew 5:39)

joaquinsolo

“Blessed are the peacemakers” 

Bombing a sovereign nation is not peacemaking.

Even if the leadership of Iran is evil and corrupt.

TinyNuggins92

“By force if necessary” is doing a lot of heavy lifting here. The current President tore apart a diplomatic solution to this problem and is now attempting a violent one. That is wrong.

Bmaj13

Christians should never be in favor of war or violence toward others. That is something we should stand against. War is the way of the world. Christians are called to be different.

The Bible doesn’t preach pacifism, but Christianity does preach non-violence. 

God has given governments power of the sword, but governments are not Christian, they are of the world. Better if Christians stayed out of it. Worldly power corrupts even the best of intentions.

Grimnir001

&gt;And it wants nuclear weapons.

First, if it's known that Iran wants nuclear weapons, I really question why Trump withdrew the US from the Iran nuclear deal?

Second, it’s crucial to know, with absolute certainty, if Iran was building a nuclear weapon. There has been severely conflicting information coming out of the Trump administration in regard to this. If they weren't building a nuclear weapon, this is Iraq all over again. If they were, the only time that it's appropriate to use force is if it's the last resort.

jLkxP5Rm

I’ve been saying “Iran has a right to defend itself” on all Iran related posts made by conservatives. They don’t really like it but it’s funny 😊

CowgirlJedi

No the father doesn't want anyone to kill anyone else, it's the God of this world, the devil, who tells Jesus "bow at my feet and I will give you authority over the world, for authority was given to me and I give it to whom I please."

The devil grants authority in this world is what it says. Trump, Biden, Putin, it doesn't matter, it all comes from the authority.

Malefic_Mike

No. You should work on your relationship with God and Jesus and then their “will” will become more evident to you. 

At all times we must be willing to forgive sinners because our own forgiveness is dependent on our ability to forgive others. 

If you can’t forgive Iran, any sinner for that matter, then God will not forgive you. (Matt 6:14)

shyguystormcrow

It is perfectly legitimate in principle to use force to stop a country like Iran from getting nuclear weapons. I don’t really take seriously anyone who says otherwise. “Oh well if we get to have nukes why not Iran!” Like don’t be a dumbass.

The real ethical concern would be with respect to the prudence. Were they actually getting there, what are the unintended consequences, what would be a better way to get there etc. etc.

That is all perfectly legitimate to raise objections on. I don’t know what to make of the situation personally. I don’t know how to navigate people screaming at each other that “American military intervention only makes everything worse!!!” or “If the US isn’t deeply involved in every foreign conflict the whole world will collapse!!!” I have no idea what to make of that.

But I think anyone who thinks Iran has some deep moral right to develop nuclear weapons unmolested is a moral idiot who just hates the US or has some fetish for equality to the extent that Iran should be treated as an equal nation and have just as much a right to nukes as we do.

Again, not all or even most anti-war people. “Iran wasn’t close to having nuclear weapons” or “this course of action will cause more harm than it presents” are principally valid arguments and I have no idea if they’re true or not.

But the Hasan Piker moral idiots of the world who *want* Iran to have nuclear weapons or to bomb the shit out of American bases to… to… assert their beautiful greatness as a country against the colonial-imperialist evil west!… they’re just dumb and I have nothing else to say about them.

AbelHydroidMcFarland

Know that God can stop anybody's program whenever and however He pleases, with or without us. I'm concerned that we (U.S.) are quick to call someone else evil, but not looking at the evil that's growing right within our own country.   We need to sweep around our own front door first,  before trying to sweep around another's. We are sliding down a slippery slope fast, and are embracing sin almost on every hand. 

Nothing happens in this world unless God ordains it, or allows it.  He even allows His people to experience the consequences of their sin.

alpha7ministries

I would ask how weak is your version of God? He seemed fine on his own with the entire world and even two cities. 

When one group says my God wants me to stop what their God is telling them,  you're really not better.

Totally different secular discussion, but Man acting for a god is what has led to most problems throughout history.

Lyo-lyok_student

As great as this all sounds...justice is not just reserved for the others. It also applies to us - and how can we go on and on about bringing 'justice' when we are withholding accountability for our own actions and how we treat our people?

How about accountability for the fact the US has meddled in the Middle East for decades and toppled Iran's democratically elected leader in the 50s because he wanted to nationalize oil. Our own greed has destabilized nations for centuries. We need to hold ourselves accountable for that, and also look inwards to see how our government right now is treating our most vulnerable and innocent.

OverallDisaster

"it’s ideologically and theologically committed to violence. It calls for the destruction of Israel, funds terrorism, and represses its own people. It’s not just a national security threat—it’s a moral one. And it wants nuclear weapons."

You understand that the US has done everything and is still doing  every you accused Iran of doing right? A matter of fact, Our country have committed way more crimes against humanity than Iran. Or do you not know our country's history?

Speaking of evil... A certain US backed county is committing genocide and stealing land. Both countries attacked another county unprovoked killing innocent people. Yet you want to talk about god's justice? Last time I checked God punished and destroyed every super power eventually for their crimes.  And the US has committed a lot of crimes as a country.  

Brother repent of your bloodlust of and need for violence. The Christian population has a massive plank, no a tree in its own eye. Maybe it should focus getting the massive tree in our own eye first.

odean14

unless god personally speaks to me about this subject then i do not know. i do know that jesus does not want us killing each other.

Loud_Badger_3780

My friend look at the US, literally Rome pt. 2. Don’t fall for Rome’s hate for the rest of the world. Also theologically violent, again look at American Protestantism how many of our churches have been cheering on violence against minorities, LGBTQ+ people, immigrants, and other countries for decades. Let’s not fall into the trap of mobilizing the church into supporting Roman imperialism

KammyLammy

This presupposes a lot.

1. God is incapable of handeling things.

2. Christ's followers are part of this world.

Balazi

&gt;So don’t mistake your personal bias for the whole counsel of God.

Great.  Show a direct quote in the NT that says any country should force another to do its bidding. 

Otherwise, seek your own words.

As long as Jews in israel think this is the "rising lion" prophecy of Ezekiel 38 39, the war wont end.


A nuclear war is inevitable 

Fight_Satan

I don’t presume to know what God wants to happen on the other side of the world.

Semour9

No.


America is great Satan.


Israel is little Satan.

Graphicism

We lead with WIsdOm and trim with KnOwledge. knowledge tells us Iran is aggressive and want death to ourselves and all non believers. Wisdom tells us to do something about it by turning to wisdom. We lead with WIsdOm and not the heart, the wicked and the prefect go to the same place, it's about balance.

Lead with Wisdom

Deuteronomy 28:13 GNV
[13] And the Lord shall make thee the head, and not the tayle, and thou shalt be aboue onely, and shalt not bee beneath, if thou obey the commandements of the Lord thy God, which I command thee this day, to keepe and to do them.

Don't lead with heart or tayle

Deuteronomy 28:43-45 GNV
[43] The straunger that is among you, shall clime aboue thee vp on hie, and thou shalt come downe beneath alow. [44] He shall lend thee, and thou shalt not lend him: he shalbe the head, and thou shalt be ye tayle. [45] Moreouer, all these curses shall come vpon thee, and shall pursue thee and ouertake thee, till thou be destroyed, because thou obeyedst not the voyce of the Lord thy God, to keepe his commandements, and his ordinances, which he commanded thee:

jelltech

This is a good question! 

I think God deals with us on several different levels. On the personal level, I believe scripture teaches us to turn the other cheek, to not resist an evil man, to endure the animosity of sinful actors for the sake of displaying the peace of the gospel. 

But on a different level, the level of nations, war is a reality. God Called the Israelites to both attack and defend, both pre-emptively and in retaliation. Those who are in decision making capacity for a nation will have to at times send the army. The heart of the king is in the Lord’s hands. 

That said, discerning God’s will in this situation is hard for me to say. I believe God deals directly with the leaders and prompts or even directs things to go in a certain direction. That’s why we should pray for our leaders. Pray for their discernment and wisdom. 

In this case, Trump has taken a geopolitical risk that other Presidents had not been willing to take. We have been negotiating with Iran for decades and they have continued their pursuit of nuclear weapons. Will the payoff of finally stopping them be worth the cost that may come with future terrorist attacks? No one knows. But for now more than any other time, their nuclear weapons ambitions have been dealt a critical blow.

CloudPiercer7

But TRUMP!

No, seriously. We all know that if Obama had taken this action it would be applauded all over r/Christianity and r/politics.

ScorpionDog321

Clowns pretending like October 7th happened in a vacuum and was the beginning of history is hilariously pathetic. 


Before October 7th Israeli Nazis were keeping 2.2 million innocent people in the Gaza concentration camp they created... fuck the Israeli Nazis and their genocidal terrorist supporters.

lilcorndivemaster

Why is it okay that Israel is getting bombed? How is that different than what Gaza got?

2dumb2learn

Your timeline provides an excellent and detailed breakdown of the escalatory cycle, correctly identifying that labeling "Operation Rising Lion" as an "unprovoked surprise attack" is factually inconsistent with the chain of events. However, a crucial piece of context is missing from the start of your timeline: Iran's decades-long clandestine nuclear program and its consistent violation of the Nuclear Non-Proliferation Treaty (NPT). Under Just War Theory, Israel's actions are therefore best understood not merely as retaliation for recent attacks, but as an act of preventive defense against a scientifically confirmed, imminent, and existential threat from a state that has repeatedly broken international law. Targeting military commanders like Haniyeh and Nasrallah is a legitimate act of war against enemy leadership, but the strikes on Iran's nuclear program itself are an attempt to neutralize a threat that, if realized, would make any future conflict unwinnable without risking global catastrophe.

From experience in the U.S. Infantry, the military objectives and strategies used by Israel are clear and professionally executed. The targeted killing of leaders like Nasrallah and Nilforoushan is a classic Command and Control (C2) degradation tactic, designed to sow chaos and disrupt the enemy's ability to coordinate a multi-front war. Similarly, striking S-300 sites is a textbook SEAD (Suppression of Enemy Air Defenses) operation, essential for establishing air dominance and shaping the future battlefield. These are not just retaliatory acts; they are deliberate, preparatory steps to disarm an adversary by targeting their leadership, their most advanced defenses, and their highest-value strategic asset the nuclear program all while using precision to minimize civilian casualties and avoid galvanizing the Iranian populace against them.

The existential threat from a nuclear Iran is not just the risk of a direct launch, which is unlikely, but the "nuclear umbrella" it would provide to its proxies. This would enable groups like Hezbollah to wage a relentless, high-intensity conventional war that would strangle Israel, knowing that a decisive counterattack on Iran itself would risk a nuclear exchange. The recent strikes on Iran's air defenses and leadership are a direct attempt to re-establish deterrence by proving that Israel can penetrate Iranian territory at will and impose unacceptable costs. Preventing Iran from acquiring this weapon is a matter of global security, as its success would shatter the NPT, trigger a regional nuclear arms race with Saudi Arabia and Turkey, and threaten the world economy by holding the Strait of Hormuz hostage.

* The critical distinction is that Iran's threat combines three factors that no other nation does: an active nuclear weapons program in violation of the NPT, a state ideology officially calling for another UN member state's destruction, and a global network of proxy armies to enact that violence.

**Source:** [IAEA Reports on NPT Safeguards in Iran](https://www.google.com/search?q=https://www.iaea.org/topics/iran-verification-and-monitoring)

MrPatri0t

[deleted]

October 7th didn’t happen in a vacuum, you can’t expect people occupied by a genocidal government not to fight back.

TheOtherUprising

June 13th didn't occur in a vacuum, sound familiar?

BionicBreak

alialahmad1997

I feel like the fact that Iran has literally been threatening to wipe Israel off the planet for 30+ years combined with their flouting of their agreement to not develop nuclear weapons is justification enough. Not even counting Iran funding all of their proxies attacks on Israel for the last however many years.

My honest belief is that people in the west view Muslims as “exotic savages” and as a result they think of Muslim nations as devoid of any agency, sin, wrongdoing and as purely noble.

Jewdius_Maximus

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DeltaBot

Yes, but not at the expense of mass civilian casualties and a big regional war. 

Most people don't want Iraq 2.0

Also worth noting there's a pretty big divide between the middle eastern public and the ruling class.

_Richter_Belmont_

Do you have sources for that claim?


Most people in the ME have suffered a lot on the hands of Israel and the US.


Israel has killed a lot of civilians.. the reason they're "careful" is because they don't have guarantees the US will support them just yet.. essentially they've forced a casus belli.


Russia and Pakistan obviously don't want Western influence in Iran


What would change your view?

Swimreadmed

I don’t think it’s accurate to say the other countries in the region have suffered more from the Iranians than Israel in that time period. You can count on one hand the nations Israel hasn’t bombed or invaded in the last 30-40 years. Iran hasn’t been perfect but they are a far cry from the aggressive bully Israel is. From where I stand, it seems like Israel doesn’t know how to function as a society without constantly being in an existential crisis that warrants a preemptive attack of war. Iran does not have that same problem

weird_mountain_bug

I really don't get this CMV. Are you justifying launching a war? Again?

The Iranian regime isn't very nice, it's no secret. You're not saying anything controversial here. Which is why not many people are addressing your point directly. Grass is green, CMV.

I'm Lebanese, I hate Hezbollah. But you know who I also hate? Our neighbors to the south.

So when I look at what's happening in Iran I'm just unable to see any pure intentions from Israel nor the US. Bibi is just dragging this whole war cabinet setup he's got going on. The US is like a dog on a leash.

The funny thing is, I used to look up to the west but now I can see they're just as evil as what they're fighting. It's like comical levels of evil I wouldn't have expected to see in real life. 

So if the forever war goes on and the Iranian regime eventually does get replaced by another CIA shill or something the Iranian people want, don't expect anyone to be thankful to you.

Feel free to tag me in the next weirdo CMV post for the next country in the ME that gets bombed in the next few years.

excuseme-wtf

As a Middle Eastern, no this inaccurate. We would like to see the Iranians lead a regime change, not another war in the region. If countries haven't taken action to help Gaza, not sure why you would expect them to take action to help Iran.

PharaohhOG

I can see the geopolitical logic you’re outlining about regional dynamics and Iran’s current position. You’re right that many Middle Eastern governments have complex relationships with Iran’s government, and regional power shifts are certainly a factor in current events.

I’d like to explore a few aspects of this analysis though. When you mention Israel being ‘extremely careful’ with civilians and infrastructure, I’m curious what specific measures you’re pointing to, because the civilian casualty figures and infrastructure damage we’re seeing seem quite significant. Even if there’s strategic restraint compared to what could theoretically happen, the human cost is still substantial.

Also, while some regional governments may indeed have their own Iran-related concerns, I wonder if we should be careful about assuming this translates into broad support for current actions. Government calculations and public sentiment often diverge, and many populations across the region seem deeply concerned about civilian harm regardless of their views on Iran.

Your point about this potentially being a turning point for Iran’s government is interesting, but I’d suggest that even if someone accepts that geopolitical framework, it doesn’t necessarily resolve questions about proportionality or the immediate humanitarian impact. Historical predictions about regime change have often been premature, and focusing primarily on those possibilities might risk overlooking the very real suffering happening righ new

South_Asparagus_3879

&gt;This is also probably why Israel is extremely careful from harming civilians and civilian infrastructure.

The Iranian Healthy Ministry reported that 430 civilians have died.

denyer-no1-fan

Most people want to say Khameini be replaced, but I hold the somewhat radical belief that it being forced on them by the US might lead to someone worse coming to power.

Yuo_cna_Raed_Tihs

Most people in the World want to see the Isreali regime collapse

Marples3

Spent like 10 minutes reading comments, and they are all just doing whattabboutisms or poking holes in your argument rather than actually trying to change your view. 

That being said, there are a lot of groups funded by Iran that would not like to see it fall. The obvious terrorist organizations like Hamas, Houthis etc., as well as countries like Qatar and Pakistan. There are also a lot of impartial or split places too; I've heard a lot of mixed signals from places like Lebanon and even Syria (although anyone with a brain in Syria would hate the Iranian regime since they bankrolled Assad). Finally, I think you are also underestimating people's hate for Israel. By which I mean, there are people (in this thread, even) who support the Iranian regime because it opposes Israel. The enemy of my enemy and all that. If the regime falls, who will lead the crusade against the Jewish state?

That being said, I would be shocked if an impartial poll of Iranians indicates a majority support the continuation of their current government/leaders.

Personally, I would love it if people in the ME were progressive enough to move past their hatred of an extreme minority and work on fixing their own issues, but the amount of money funnelled into keeping the endless war going is mind-boggling, and at the end of the day, money talks.

TsutoMori

I mostly agree with your view and the only part of your statement that I think really needs to be changed is that israel, you say, was very careful to avoid killing civilians or destroying civilian infrastructure. 

That just isn't the case. Look at gaza, they're happy to destroy civilian infrastructure they are proud of killing 5 civillians for every militant. But they do have very precisely guided weapons that hits their target, very exactly. So if I want to kill a man, they will kill him wherever he is, with a precisely guided bomb directly to his location. If he happens to be in an apartment building full of thousands of civilians, they will destroy an apartment building full of thousands of civilians, and will not lose a moment's sleep for having done so. And it isn't a matter of human shields. They assassinate these men(iranian) in their homes, then go to their(israeli) homes after work to be with their families.

Eighth_Eve

I seem to recall a whole lot of people very confidently telling us that Iraq would greet us as liberators as well...

Roadshell

Sure, but that doesn’t mean we should intervene to make it happen. I bet you most people in North America want to see the U.S. MAGA administration to collapse, but that doesn’t mean they have any right to take military action against the U.S.

I don’t see anyone running around saying that the Iranian regime are awesome people and should be protected at all costs. People are saying that war brings suffering for innocent people and we need to stop getting involved in forever wars in the Middle East.

CappinPeanut

Yes but the Israel aint so saint in this conflict too. Those both sides are more in gray area when it comes to morals. Israel also falls into regime category with how its govt behaves, its just happened that its the side we are expected to "like and support". Russia also wanted Ukraine to not have nukes, and suddenly its bad when they attack.  It just shows a bit of hypocrycy of geopolitics.

AdPitiful1938

You can’t be serious. Rarely if ever has air power alone brought down a powerful, entrenched government in such a geographically large, populous country like Iran. 

It will take millions of foreign soldiers invading Iran to potentially destroy the current Iranian military and government. At an untold enormous cost in blood and treasure. Followed by an occupation and nation building of unknown length &amp; cost. Which no foreign power will undertake any time soon.

Level-Drawing6901

I wouldn't be so sure, besides maybe Syrians (for propping up Assad), some Iraqi Sunnis (for propping up Shia militias), and some Lebaneae Christians/Druze/etc because of Hezbollah. A lot of Iranians do hate their regime too for obvious reasons, but that doesn't mean they want to be bombed either. Israel has also fucked with Lebanon a lot too, it isn't just Iran. They propped up the Christian militias there on the past. 


But I think most people there would rather see a stable, kind of antagonostic than a Libya or ISIS situation post regime toppling. Kind of like Saddam being a necessary evil. That level of instability is worse.

FunOptimal7980

I'm from Turkey and I don't care about the Iranian regime. 

If their citizens want this change and can make it happen, good for them. It's none of my business. 

One thing is for certain though. The US aren't their friends, ours or any Middle Eastern country's other than Israel. Look how the US "intervention" worked out for Afghanistan and Iraq. 

I'm not even Muslim by the way so this isn't a religious thing. But I'm certainly more worried about the US or Israel causing yet another shitstorm in the region over Iran. I trust Iran more with nuclear weapons than I do with a country who already used nukes twice.

GunMuratIlban

I don't get how people think there is any support for the Iranian government (at best it could be said they did not instigate this latest wave of violence). All the support and concern is for the Iranian people, who are stuck with an authoritarian government they can't control and getting bombed to oblivion,  all the while Israel pretends they're doing that to free them.

TheStraggletagg

What or who is going to replace the current Iranian regime?

Why would one assume that what follows is better?

It could very well turn out that militaristic hardliners take over, or maybe Iran becomes another broken lawless state like Syria or Libya that only further destabilizes the region. 

It might be true that in the abstract most middle eastern states (which, importantly, are not the same as the people especially given nearly every government in the region is autocratic) want the Iranian regime to fall. 

But I highly doubt they want to go through the pain that it will inflict on them and the world. 

Iran has already demonstrated a capability and willingness to [damage Gulf oil infrastructure](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abqaiq%E2%80%93Khurais_attack) and have stated they will attack countries hosting U.S. assets if the U.S. joins the war. They can also likely close the Strait of Hormuz, which is a key transit artery for oil exports of many surrounding states. They could potentially even mine the Persian gulf to impede naval operations by the U.S.

It is not certain they will do this, but other countries in the region know that it is entirely possible and likely if Iran feels it is under existential threat. These actions would massively harm surrounding countries’ economies (and those of many more around the world) and could lead to societal unrest that would threaten the tenuous power of monarchies like Saudi. 

This is exactly why we have seen a thawing of the relationship between Iran and the gulf states over the past several years, shown clearly by the recent [joint naval drills between Iran and Saudi Arabia](https://www.timesofisrael.com/iran-and-saudi-arabia-hold-joint-naval-exercise-in-sea-of-oman/amp/) late last year.

PapaverOneirium

Most people in North America want to see the Trump regime changed. 

That doesn’t justify an invasion

weedywet

Britain colonized Saudi Arabia, Iran, and a bunch of Middle Eastern countries the same way they colonized the rest of the world. British imperialists gave weapons and luxuries to local warlords and called them kings. Then those kings violently suppressed their local populations, looted their country’s natural resources (oil), and gave them to Britain for cheap. After WWII, Britain wasn’t powerful enough to enslave the planet anymore. Gandhi was able to force them to leave India without firing a shot. But oil had rapidly become the new commodity everyone needed. So America took over Britain’s colonies in oil rich countries. 

Iran built a liberal democracy so America and Britain overthrew their government in 1953 and reinstalled a monarch. Eventually, they overthrew the US and have fought American imperialism ever since. The rest of the Middle East is still led by ultra-violent monarchs such as Mohammed Bin Salman of Saudi Arabia who are propped up by American imperialists.

Middle Eastern monarchs hate Iran, but their “serfs” do not. If they’re not part of the nobility who gets paid off by the king, they too hate the US backed monarchs who steal their wealth. This is the same reason why so many Americans hate the Trump, Clinton, and Bush families. It’s why so many Israelis hate Netanyahu. Imperialists have used race, religion, nationality, etc. as part of a divide and conquer strategy since civilization first began.

McKoijion

I think most people in the Middle East would like for the United States to stop overthrowing their governments and bombing their cities and allow them to live in peace.

basedaudiosolutions

This is a weird CMV because I assume you can find an objective answer in the form of polls.

Anecdotally, as an Arab Muslim in the middle east. I care 100 times more about the collapse of Israel than Iran, and so does everyone I know. IRL.

Whatever4M

No we don't.  Im Lebanese have a ton of issues with Iran.  Had issues with Assad.  Had issues with Saddam and with Qaddafi all those countries are worse off after US intervention.  We want you to fuck off first an foremost.  You meaning the West collectively.  And i'm a non muslim so before you go assuming I want some caliphate let me preface with that. Or midface.  But you are wrong we want peace.  All we have known is war.

Kotor-Knowledge-7964

First of all I'm Middle Eastern (from Egypt) so I've seen opinions from different people all over the region 

The vast majority of Shias in the Middle East don't (so mostly Iraqis, Yemenis, Lebanese, etc)

As for the Sunnis (who are the majority), it depends, some want the Iranian regime to collapse at all costs (mostly Syrians, some Jordanians), others fear that a power vacuum would embolden Israel to act more aggressively if there is no one to stand up to them, as it has been more aggressive than ever since oct 7th (mostly Palestinians, Egyptians, Lebanese, etc), while others fear that that regime falling will create uncontrollable chaos that will affect its neighbors in the Gulf and birth extremist factions that will hurt everyone, similar to ISIS in Iraq, and could endanger oil production and transport and therefore the economies of these nations (mostly Gulf people), others are supportive of Iran despite disliking Shiism or disliking their actions in Syria purely because of their support for Hamas and the fact that without Iran no one will support Palestine and it will get fucked over more than ever before (the same core demographic as the fear of an emboldened Israel one, but more miscellaneous)

So I think that overall the majority would find itself on the no regime collapse territory, though I the majority most likely still wants a significantly weakened Iran that doesn't try to project its influence beyond helping Palestine, or doesn't project its influence abroad period

okabe700

Most people in the Middle East don’t want the US to invade and create another 20+ year forever war where Islamic extremist are pouring over everyone’s boarders. Attempting to help Iran or hurt Israel will result in immediate action by the United States, especially because we are the ones bombing Iran.

Fifteen_inches

No, we don’t. You really need to talk to real people from the Middle East, and you need to differentiate between the governments and the people.

The vast majority of people Middle East don’t recognize or accept Israel, except for some elitists, governments or Israel collaborators, people believe that Israel will go down sooner rather than later, you’re welcome to disagree but I lived most of my life in the middle east and I am yet to meet someone who is willing to accept Israel in the Middle East. 

I have never seen Arabs (people, not governments or propagandists) united as they are behind Iran now, the top Egyptian cleric issued a statement in support of Iran, people are happily and proudly sharing videos of Iran strikes and mocking the Israeli government for trying to play the victim. Iran gave the Arab world (despite not being Arab) a sense of pride they haven’t felt in a while.

While some people might dislike the regime, everyone knows what happens when the democracy train visits a country in the Middle East.

Molokheya

Most Middle Eastern governments want the Iranian regime to collapse, but the public is quite ignorant and mostly have a negative opinion about anything and everything that has to do with Israel.  Most people in the Middle East who you come across on social media, including Reddit, are happy to see the regime collapse, but they are typically more educated, which is evident by the fact that they speak English.  The majority of people in the Middle East are less educated, and many only have access to the information given to them. 

Somerandomedude1q2w

I don't how to break it to you, jewpear, but the everyday joe here has wet dreams about israel not existing, you need to get out that echo chamber you're in and talk to an egyptian or saudi before forming such strong opinions about them

Theycallmeahmed_

It’s tough for any of us to truly gauge what “most people” want. The Iranian regime is brutal. They treat women like cattle and the freedoms we have in the US don’t exist. Being gay is punishable by death. I could go on, but it’s very brutal. 

Regime change is sensible but it would certainly lead to another ME occupation. A forever war. I don’t think many people want that in the US. I don’t. 

With all that said, letting this regime get nukes is really bad idea. This is a once in lifetime opportunity to get the nukes out…. I don’t think one bombing mission changes the outcome for the regime… if the regime is going to fall that is likely already in motion. But does the US dropping a coupe bombs mean the US is responsible for the outcome? I don’t know. What if the US does not take direct action and the regime falls? If Iran breaks into civil wars and warlords? Should the US stand by and watch it happen or should the US intervene? 

If I were president, what would I do? Honestly I don’t know.  I’m curious what others think? If you got to call the shots on this, what would you do? It’s a tough one.

hotsauce-yomammy

Iranian leadership collapse means they will be replaced with an American/Israeli puppet. We don’t want that.

effkay8

1. This is an empirical question. Polling is very hard in developing countries and almost impossible in authoritarian ones. Let’s just say we don’t have great data on what “most people in the Middle East” think about this question. Everything is conjecture. So while you might find your opinion reasonable, have the humility to recognize that unless you’ve spent time in the region, you’re probably just making shit up with very little hard evidence. Would uou be willing to bet a week’s paycheck that you’re right? If so, you can probably skip all the answers here. If not, think about why you wouldn’t make that bet. (To be clear, I would not make this bet).

2. There are indeed many rational reasons why the average Middle Easterner wouldn’t like the government of Iran: they have fomented armed groups in numerous countries and generally don’t play well with others. That’s said, people find creative reasons to vote against their interests all the time. Just look at Mississippi. So a rational reason to dislike the Iranian regime is circumstantial evidence at best.

3. There are also rational reasons to support the Iranian regime, especially right now. Iran has been systematically excluded from the international system. An American would say they got what they deserve, but opinions can differ. Also, it’s reasonable to see Israel’s bombing as escalatory and unprecedented. Many people just like to root for the underdog and would support Iran for this reason alone. 

4. “Most people in the Middle East” almost certainly don’t think about the Iranian regime at all on an average day. Those who do only think about it in the context of current news, so see point 3. From this perspective, you can’t really separate what people think about Iran v what they think about Israel. It’s just not how people’s brains actually work. There is no “this is what I REALLY think about Iran” part of their brains. Any question about Iran right now is refracted through the lens of Israeli attacks. This makes it highly unlikely, for me, that most MEers want to see the regime collapse.

5. Similarly, you can’t separate regime collapse from what comes after. A beautiful democratic government? Descent into anarchy where terrorist groups take over one of the region’s most advanced militaries? Or, what I see as most likely: a rump regime that retains most characteristics of the Islamic Republic but puts all of its effort into fueling asymmetric attacks and terrorist groups. 

6. Ask yourself why you’re asking this question, and what its relevance is. I don’t know from your post. But wars are not and should never be waged based on regional public opinion.

7. Personally, my own fear is that many in the West have forgotten what the threat of terrorism is really like, and we will be reminded in the coming 5-10 years. 9/11 was traumatic but Western governments have been remarkably effective at keeping their citizens safe. If you’re from the West, you generally only think about terrorism when going on vacation to the Middle East or Africa. But this is not a given. It is a hard won victory, won as much by soft power as hard. And we are watching that achievement be smashed. Israel, of course, has always had to worry about terrorism. Now they will their problems ours, once again.

QuietNene

no one care about the iranian regime over here,, we just want israel to set us free from its occupation

MAFiA303

I would have agreed with your view until you said "Most people in the ME have suffered more from the Iranian regime than Israel".

That claim just means that you are clueless about the region and its history... Basically uneducated in that sense, and it isn't easy to change the view of someone who is uneducated in the matter.

Best I can hope for is that you actually read about the history and actually talk to people from the ME. While they see the Iranian regime as a threatening villain indeed, they have all suffered far more from Israel and its slaved ally, the US.... Heck, they were the ones who brought the Iranian regime!.

DieselZRebel

People made the same excuse for Iraq and Saddam Hussein.  Don’t let these talking points win over.  They’re bullshit.  We’re at a similar point we were with Iraq now with Iran.

wolf_at_the_door1

Iranians want regime change but not at the expense of innocent lives and their country turning into rubble.

manelzzz

This kind of posting is exactly why r/CMV is just a big exhibitionist freakshow sub now.

Liorlecikee

Im pretty sure more people in the Middle East are against American-Israeli meddling in the region than the Iranians

OwnInstruction8849

There was a democratically elected socialist government in Iran. They were going to nationalise the oil so the profits could benefit Iranians, so the US and UK staged a coup and put the Shah in charge. He was so unpopular with a massive amount of human rights abuses that there was a revolution. A coalition of factions was involved, but the Islamic Fundamentalists won out. Now Iran is a theocracy, and freedom is limited.

Yes, there are good reasons to want it collapsed. Many Iranians do. Yet those Iranians don’t want to be bombed. In fact, the external threat only makes the Ayatollah’s regime more popular, as long as it can defend the country. 

Then there’s the question of what to replace it with. The Shah’s son would clearly be a puppet for Western interests. And there would likely be similarities with the massively unpopular regime of his father that he refuses to condemn. 

The answer must come from the Iranian people, not from the diaspora, not from America, not from Israel. There must be a democratic process, and equal rights for all Iranians. Bombs are not what will build a new Iran. Western Interference led to the current situation.

Captain-Starshield

You mean the mostly Sunni dominated countries would like to see the only Shia theocracy have a regime change?  Yeah, that tracks.  Nobody in the ME was going to help Iran to begin with, no matter their stance on Israel.  I wouldn't surprised if the Saudis were more in favour of genociding Iran than anyone else on the planet, just based on their religious differences.

Brilliant_Trade_9162

So the ideal solution is to bomb innocent people? What about the children, the newborns, the sick, the elderly, and the disabled? You claim to fight for women's freedom but you're doing it by dropping bombs on them. That is not liberation, that is cruelty.

How can this ever be justified? Every human life matters. I might strongly oppose the US government and yes, I want accountability and justice for what it has done, but I would never wish for innocent Americans to be bombed and killed. There is a difference between seeking justice and supporting mass murder.

What the US did to the Middle East should never be repeated. Entire nations were destroyed, millions displaced, and countless lives lost, all under the false claim of freedom and democracy. And in this current conflict, it was Israel who bombed first.

Stop pretending to care about human rights while justifying war crimes. You are being ignorant and inhumane.

zaineee42

Executions in Iran of individuals accused of espionage for Israel underscore the escalating tensions and human rights concerns.

Iran-Israel Conflict and Executions

Why This Matters

Public Sentiment Summary

Highlighted Comments

Parties Involved

What the people want