Public sentiment is largely negative towards the Indus Waters Treaty, driven by perceptions of inequitable water distribution favoring Pakistan, calls for immediate reevaluation or termination of the treaty, and growing anxieties surrounding regional tensions and India's water scarcity. Some commenters express cautious optimism regarding discussions about the treaty while highlighting the risks of potential escalation into conflict.

Government of India

Government of Pakistan

NymusRaed

Hopefully no war comes of this, both Nations wield Atomic Weapons and are densely populated.

thatsocialist

jeffreycoley

Context:

The Indus Water Treaty is a treaty signed by the early leaders of India and Pakistan to share the waters of the Indus River System, after the First Kashmir War and the LOC (Line of Control) drawn to separate the state of Jammu and Kashmir.

Pakistan consists of 4 provinces:- Khyber Pakhtunkhwa, Balochistan, Sindh and Punjab. Of these, Sindh and Punjab are the population centres (by a huge margin), which are the major areas of the Indus valley. The Indus Valley is irrigated by the Indus river, and its 5 tributaries.

The term Punjab refers to the land of 5 rivers. These are the 5 eastern tributaries of the Indus, namely (from west to east) the Jhelum, the Chenab, the Ravi, the Beas and the Sutlej. In some ways, these 5 rivers and the cultures of the lands irrigated by these rivers have been more prominent/significant in Indic history than the Indus river itself, especially the post Vedic age.

The Indus Water Treaty deemed that the 3 western rivers of the system; the Indus, the Jhelum and the Chenab belong fully to Pakistan, and all its waters, although the rivers all begin in Jammu and Kashmir (Indian control).

Meanwhile, the eastern rivers; Ravi, Beas and Sutlej all belong to India. The Ravi, Beas and Sutlej all begin/run through the Indian state of Himachal Pradesh (not disputed). The Sutlej starts in Tibet but most of its water catchment is in Himachal Pradesh anyway. The Ravi is the border between Jammu and Kashmir and Punjab (India) and Himachal Pradesh.

However, the catch is that of the 6 rivers, 80% of the water of the entire Indus system comes from the 3 western rivers. For a long time before the current Nationalist government in India, subsequent Indian governments have honored this agreement despite its extreme detriment to India.

The Jhelum begins in Kashmir valley, while the Chenab begins in upper Himachal but passes through major areas of the Jammu region later on. Both the Jhelum and Chenab river valleys are inhabited mostly by ethnic Kashmiris, all of which is under India. 

Kashmiri farmers are unable to rely on their own rivers due to the Indus Water Treaty, and India can build no dams on these 2 rivers to help Kashmiri farmers. The revocation of the Indus Water Treaty in India's view, will be good for Kashmiris (especially Kashmiri farmers) but bad for Pakistani Punjabis, whose agriculture relies on these rivers. Moreover, India cant divert these rivers out of Kashmir anyway since theres a mountain range between this region and the rest of India (Pir Panjal range).

Yesterday, the Pahalgam terror attack took place, where terrorists exclusively killed 25 Hindu tourists (plus one Muslim local who tried to help them) after checking IDs, asking them to recite the Kalma to prove if they are Muslim or not, and even asking them to pull their pants down to check for circumcision (Muslims are circumcised, Hindus are not).

The revocation of the Indus Water Treaty is a response to this Pakistani terror attack, among others like the closing of the Attari border, and the reduction of ambassadors. Pakistani citizens in India are given 48 hours to leave India right now.

Note: TRF (The Resistance Front), an offshoot of the Lashkar-e-Taiba (LeT) has claimed responsibility for the attack. LeT operated from within Pakistan and funds and launches terrorist attacks within India and the Indian side of Jammu and Kashmir.

Hydroscorpio_18

like how Hyderabad is just chilling there.....

AnimatorPlayful6587

Vibes seem pretty chill in that area of the world

Col_mac

![gif](giphy|3xHuwHnHmv1zW|downsized)

India and Afghanistan to Pakistan now

Nice_Leopard_7135

Can someone give a synopsis please? I'm unfamiliar with this treaty and its ramifications.

joustswindmills

US preferring Pakistan over India during the Cold war was a mistake.

[deleted]

I’m not even trying to be against india’s claim over kashmir here but at least when talking about control of waterways it would be more appropriate for a map to show the actual line of control instead of claims? 

Thats what makes a good map, one that shows information useful to that its intending to present.

Los-Stupidos

Just one question how they are going to implement it... I mean how will they divert water and where

vishalsharmaa22

Iron-Phoenix2307

Organic_Group3352

Other country's: have a military.

Pakistan:Military has a contury.

The map should really have de facto control of Kashmir rather than India's claim for a post like this.

BootsAndBeards

India and their habit of showing others territory as their own.

KidJuggernaut

India tried to amend the treaty. Pakistan said no.

India be like, “ok, we’ll do it our way”.

Starts a false flag operation, blames Pakistan within minutes, blocks the water as a form of revenge.


lol what a bozo of a nation.

stating_facts_only

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AutoModerator

So, war? Ahh schucks man.. just when life started to get better.

NotHamza1

UnlikelyConfidence11

Topi drama. India can only effect small percentage of Pakistan's supply. There is a reason those rivers were given to Pakistan in IWT.

IllustriousScene5040

This is unfortunate, but along expected lines from a Hindu nationalist government. The doves are steadily losing ground everywhere in the world and the hawks are winning.

But I just want to say: the people in our region are masters at making their own lives miserable for no good reason. A wise person put it thus: we are like apes who are tearing each other apart because we just don't know any better.

The result of this ratcheting up of hatred can't be pretty. I try not to think about it.

mantrabuddhi

Yes they will, just a matter of time before new deals are made. The Generals come and go, the better question is which Colonel will turn on and exile Munir. It is a long game but the plays are predictable.

Okay and, spend the next 30 years building dams, the moment water is actually threatened, 2 -3 strikes and waters back😇 good luck wasting the money

BrilliantMastodon957

My Dada friend once said : Brahmin blocked our water. 

Even after 80 years, the same mindset still exists.

i3ahab

Just based on the title good for everyone

SyedHRaza

OK so they will build dams spending billions of $$$ and years and Pakistan will just bomb it. Pakistan will have all the rights since IWT is ratified by UN and India as well.
Just pure drama

shahkhizar1

I wise man once said that next war is going to be on water. We're heading that way full throttle just because of India's arrogance.

googo1

Easy solution if they keep this up for more than 2 years. Conduct another underground nuclear test to remind them (it may repercussion but nothing is more crucial than water).

UltimateTeachine1000

Mohsincj

bunkabaab

Ifeelold87

U want factual answer. These are just political statement.

Nothing will happen.

India didn't stop any water, it isn't just sharing information, neither they have plan to, they just want to complete infrastructure project which was earlier interrupted by Pakistan because of treaty, India wanted to renegotiate treaty from long time, terrorist attack provided good opportunity to act on that.

If no major terrorist activity took place in region for some time and after lot of threat and begging from Pakistan, treaty will be renegotiated.

There is no threat to Pakistan until water is flowing, China can't to do shit because they are doing same thing on Brahmaputra river(30-40% water come from Tibet region) and it flows not just in India but also Bangladesh. This region is known for flood(wettest region on earth) rather than drought, the threat China poses is to flood that region of India and Bangladesh with sudden release of water.

5Doublu

Not sure about the short-term. 

But in the long term, China will likely be involved.

It depends.

If the Indian actions are limited to statements and there is no meaningful change to the water that flows into Pakistan, there will likely be an uneasy peace.

As things stand, the Pakistanis are likely to pursue a dual strategy of deterrence through economic integration and military buildup with diplomatic efforts built around enhancing their position on both of those tracks.

Economically, we can expect the Pakistanis to move towards free trade deals and other joint investments with India's neighbors- namely China and Bangladesh. This will create indirect trade links- anything that damages Pakistan will also damage China and Bangladesh, and damage India. 

Militarily, expect the Pakistanis to build up in the areas where they enjoy relative parity with India- air power, diesel electric submarines, and artillery. 

If the water flow to Pakistan is restricted, the Pakistanis will likely have no choice but to go to war with India. They'll try to secure Chinese approval- even if the Chinese don't join them, getting Beijing's blessing means they'll be coordinating with the Chinese and assured access to Chinese supplies of ammunition and fuel for a major war.

Kahzootoh

India is simply taking advantage of the current situation to extract concessions from Pakistan before re-entering the treaty. Or perhaps a new treaty will be signed which India hopes will be more in their favour. Either way, it’s a negotiating tactic

Affectionate-Tip-164

This is just political posturing by BJP and Modi to project a strongman image, it’s not a realistic policy shift. Everyone knows Pakistan is a poor country and any serious reduction in water would mean massive famine. India understands that too. First off, it would take decades to actually build the dams and storage capacity needed to block or divert enough water to matter. Second, Pakistan wouldn’t just sit back. If you’re staring down famine, you either die or you fight and Pakistan has shown just last month it’s not afraid to fight. Five Indian jets were shot down, including Rafales, with ease and without a single shot fired back by the Indians and the difference is expected to grow as Pakistan adds J35 next year. That kind of performance reduces India to the status of Houthis poking holes in hangars or scratching up runways. So again, this “never restore” talk is bluster meant for headlines, not real policy.

Ignore

India needs to seize all contested land areas immediately. And they better start making deals with the US. The war in iran will not accomplish nuclear disarmament as long as pakistan possesses nuclear weapon technology. As soon as iran loses its tech and its scientists, the knowledge and tech will just flow across the border from pakistan to replenish what was lost in iran. This case must be made to israel and USA.

seize all disputed lands. Cooperate with USA. Cooperate with israel. Strangle pakistan.

xxxHAL9000xxx

I've said it before, the "ceasefire" wasn't India wussing out despite being a favourite to win the conflict. They had this trump card with them the whole time. Why waste lives when you can just do this?

thecoppermusicdude

Can't understand how pakistan are going to afford the 40, J-35 jets.

Priyotosh1234

When this treaty was designed, knowledge of glaciers were limited and it was very generous allocation to Pakistan. Mostly Nehru ( Indian PM) thought this will allow peace in the region

We all know that didnt happen. With change in demography and understanding that western river account for 80% of the total water flow, India tried to re negotiate the deal to allocate more % for its population considering the population growth in the region. But Pakistan didnt bother to negotiate for that

Even after Kargil attack, Parliament attack, Multiple city blasts, Mumbai city attack of 2008 and countless attacks in J&amp;K region, India kept this treaty alive and asked for re negotiation

But post Pahalgam attack, patience finally ran out. There is no need to have any water treaty. Pakistan and India can have the same status about river, like India and China have

pratyush_1991

Its sad for Pakistan, but it was coming for them. For over 2 years Indian government has been discussing over renegotitaing this treaty. And recent Phalgam attack really provided them with opportunity to actually suspend this as a tool to make sure that Pak do not harbour terrorist. We all know that's not going to happen as its whole identity revolves around attacking India and creating terror in India. It's safe to say that IWT is in abeyance forever or untill Pak remains in its today's form.

anshu2605

India has been looking to get out of the treaty for some time now. Not outright abolish it like now but they wanted to change somethings related to dams and power generation to represent the more modern technological requirements which were prohibited by the treaty.

Pakistan didn't help by just stonewalling every project india was building delaying it by years and decades by invoking arbitration which takes years to give a judgment in the process increasing India's frustration with the treaty. 

Pakistan failed to understand that there's noone stopping india from abolishing the treaty. International institutions are toothless in implementation of such treaties. Pakistan just keeps poking india expecting india to follow the treaty like in the past while it uses the treaty maliciously to delay genuine projects. This treaty was just give-give-give for india and such treaties are bound to fall apart. 

Everyone kept saying that this treaty has survived 4 wars so it will continue to survive. But everyone fails to realise that those wars happened when india was a financially weak nation. It couldn't have diverted the water even if it wanted to. It requires billions of dollars to fund such a project and no international institution would fund such a project primarily because it lies in an internationally disputed territory. 

Right now India not only has the money to fund it but it also has the incentive to fund it. India is in huge need of energy especially clean energy to power its growth and it requires more water in that region for farming. 

This was inevitable. Pakistan is just stuck in the past. Mentally and quite literally

GlitteringNinja5

Well "fuck around and find out" situation with pak now

NewTHULTHUL-exe

I see a lot of overzealous and misinformed people suggesting that these canals and dams are easy targets for military action. But nothing could be more far from truth. 

Dams are built with a lot of durability and strength mainly to hold the water back. Water stored behind a dam has an overwhelming force which when used to turn turbines generates a lot of power. The dams which are constructed to hold that water back are designed to endure that immense pressure. 

Bombing dams is an extremely difficult task, which requires very specialized bombs that only a select few countries have. Also bombing dams is a futile action as destroyed sections can be rebuilt quickly. A country which bombs another countries critical infrastructure will face immense international condemnation not to mention severe retaliatory action. Also for a lower riparian (downstream) state to bomb an upper riparian state's dams is nothing but suicide as a good portion of the water released will flood their own country. 

A lot of people are not realizing that the IWT suspension is a bigger ticking time bomb for pak than any military action would be. IWT is the real trump card that the Indian government has used this time. Now India just has to stay calm, build water storage capacity and watch pakistan panic.

KizaruMus

Cub_Millenial

Love to see some Pakistan sympathisers in the replies

VanillaIceGolem

SynthSydneyWizer

Good. This is what should happen when you facilitate terror attacks on your neighbor.

DefiantZealot

Lol the circlejerk in the Pakistani sub is wild with this post and subject …either “go to the UN and cry about the treaty” or “go to war and bomb Indian dams and infrastructure.” Like bro, this isn’t Iran vs USA, you can’t just drop bombs and walk away. India’s not gonna sit back ..if there’s a conventional war, Pakistan gets steamrolled. If it ever goes nuclear (which no one actually wants), it’s game over for PK.

What they never mention is the most obvious and realistic option: just stop funding terrorists, stop the proxy crap, stop messing with Indian peace. That’s literally all India ever says ..you stop that, we’re chill, and the water flows as per Indian terms. It’s not some chest-thumping move, it’s just reality. India doesn’t see Pakistan as a serious threat anymore.

Pretty sure even the Pak establishment knows the only way out is to cool down, be civil with India, and everyone benefits.

liyakadav

The most funny thing is that Pakistanis believe that they can win war against india😂😂😂

No-Philosophy-2208

This move will damage the army generals and politicians as Pakistan is a major agriculture export country and most of the arable land is in hold of the elites.I truly hope this move by India cripples those in power

Working-Section-7493

The reason behind the suspension of the Indus Waters Treaty (IWT) is not that India wants people to suffer. It's because:

1. Pakistan has repeatedly supported or harbored terrorists who have carried out attacks on Indian soil.
2. The suspension of the treaty is intended to allow India to build dams, primarily for generating power for Jammu &amp; Kashmir and nearby regions.
3. No one is diverting an entire river system. The plan involves only a simple canal at the end point of the Chenab to divert a portion of its water approximately 60–70% into the Beas River.
4. India needs water. Punjab and Haryana have alarmingly low groundwater levels. Rajasthan and Delhi face severe drinking water shortages. Even parts of J&amp;K lack adequate irrigation.
5. Those raising concerns about the climate where were you when Pakistan was developing nuclear weapons? Or when China built the massive Three Gorges Dam?
6. Those who claim to care about humanity where were you when Pakistan was killing tourists or during the Mumbai attacks and other incidents? India has always pursued peace in the region; that's the only reason Pakistan has received so many chances. Even during times of war, India did not suspend the treaty.
7. If Pakistan truly cannot survive without India's water, then it should surrender its nuclear weapons and prioritize humanity first.

fffiiiiiyyyyyyyyyyy

Isn't this basically guaranteeing a really, really fucked up war and/or a refugee crisis on a hitherto unimagined scale

landlord-eater

No country in the world can claim the resources of another country. It was the goodwill of India that they allowed 80-20 split of these waters. Pakistan should have had a friendly relationship with India. Now, the IWT is dusted, Pakistan can't really do anything about it unless it's a diplomatic talk. You can't attack another nation for its resources. You can't threaten another nation for their resources. A healthy relationship is the only way forward but I don't see that coming from Pakistan anytime soon. The international community won't say anything in it. India basically was always free to do what they wanted with the resources on their land. It was just a gesture of peace that IWT ever came into the picture.

DeliciousFireDragon

Mmhh looks good but divert some water in yamuna too it needs fresh water

Existing_Solution927

For Pakistanis - wait &amp; watch how blood &amp; water isn’t going to flow together

lakshmi_chitfund_

Accelerator____

Tall_Most_74

Efficient_Meme

Been following this conversation on a Pakistani thread about this post.


https://www.reddit.com/r/pakistan/comments/1lhj3ay/how_feasible_and_realistic_it_really_is_and_will/


What I find surprising is that none of them even remotely talk about the possibility that their government/army gives up their "strategic assets" like Masood Azhar and Hafeez Saeed.


They are open to starve their people or start a war than to let go of these terrorists 🤦🏽‍♂️

kranthitech

LawyerSea9462

Even in the Indus treaty, India does have the permission to build the run of the river dam.

It's not a water resource issue, it's way more than that. Geopolitics is in the center of it especially due to the pincer of China Pak in North.

But the thing is, GOI will build as much leverage as possible b4 the next showdown to pressurise Pakistani establishment( military).

Also India won't push Pakistan to that extent for its collapse or any major civil uprising in it because of a simple reason the population density of Pakistan is in the east of Indus river. Thus in case of mass civil uprising, they might start moving further East and Border is ultimately a fence so it won't be possible to hold 20 crore people.

Daddy_hindi

I understand that Indians have some alternative number system for big numbers ( those lakh and crores) but can we stick to millions and billions, please? International community doesn't understand lakhs and crores and they are even less intuitive than chinese/korean/japanese wans and yis.

berikiyan

Correction: 

India has put the treaty 'on hold' it hasn't revoked it yet as per official Indian government (rather than low level internal political propoganda)

Pakistan has revoked the Shimla Agreement in response thereby not recognising the LoC as a defacto border.

The whole thing takes us back to pre 1960s time.

AwarenessNo4986

Yeah let's see when it actually gets completed 

im_just_depressed

Pakistan deserves the wrath , they take no action against public terrorists

Defiant-Nail8326

The last thing I do is to read or reply to Pakistanis anywhere online. It's a waste of time to engage with a bunch of people who have only seen decline ever since they came into existence, and all of that because of the lies they tell themselves.

All that Pakistanis can do is to talk online and find some comfort in Indians giving them some attention. Let's not waste our time on them, we have got work to do, unlike them, who only talk and talk.

We reduced our extreme poverty from 27% to 11% in the last 10 years, theirs increased from 30% to 39%. They're weak, lazy and incompetent. They couldn't produce a single leader in 75 years who can uplift them, they're a breed of losers bound to self-destruct.

Again, let's not waste our time answering them, they're nobodies, let's work hard and help our government and army beat them to pulp.

Due-Honeydew-6687

This is a much better comment section than others sub for the same news. On other subs it's just people talking about humans who just should live in peace without having any idea about the complexity of the world and human beings or that things aren't black and white.

inevitable__guy__

I'm sure this will definitely stop attacks on India from Pakistan. No way this will backfire at all

Eta I have no idea what India should do, but backing your enemy into a corner generally doesn't make them less violent.

WorryNew3661

I’m not a supporter of either side but isn’t this some kind of crime against humanity?

GetTheLudes

La Hawla wa La Quwatta Illa Billahilaliyuladheem Rabighfirli

WeeklyEmu4838

i_am_not_bat_man

formidable_dagger

Pakistan currently in the FO stage of FAFO

boinwtm0ds

Pakistan should have thought twice before using terrorism as a foreign policy tool.

This thread: Indians pretending to be Americans posting their perspective to other Indians pretending to be Americans.

Staplersarefun

Yeah trying to cause an entire country to die of dehydration won't cause a war at all. Amd even if it does, it isnt like Pakistan has nukes. Nothing to worry about here. Big nothing burger. 

_Batteries_

THE SHERE NUMBER OF DELUSION PAKISTANI'S IN HERE , TRYING THEIR BEST TO JUSTIFY THEMSELVES IS PEAK COMEDY 🤣🤣

Odd-Leading1

This is the sort of shit that happens when the UN and international law becomes completely useless. Mass starvation of rival nations and the weaponisation of the most basic resource we have. China will be doing the same soon enough with dams too. And I believe Sudan (?) have a dam that will restrict much of the Nile.

AnonymousTimewaster

hakkahuya69

To stop the natural flow of rivers and waterways is a Human Rights Violation. But yeah, y'all continue to feel proud for starving neighboring countries, and inflicting collective punishment. This is what the lowest of the low would do.

--CashMoney--

Expecting Pakistan not hitting theae targets is like expecting india to occupy Lahore and Pakistan not responding 


After all its signed agreement backed by world bank

zeey1

RandomRedditor_1916

India breaking international law..China will do the same to India.

General_Papaya_4310

This was such a BOLD move. Bash me or abuse me for saying this but this BJP govt had guts to pull this off and Congress didn't in 2008. It was fucking damn too clear that Pakistan did that to us and we did nothing. If we would have taken that step before things would have been lot different. Let's hope in coming years we get this project done and no politics gets in between.

Administrative-Past6

Jhasaram

FaizaPKI

aspirine199

AstroTurfing by Indian bot accounts in full force i see

LavaPurple

Difficult-Tie-9764

zYnxZy

Will they build up a canal system in thar desert??

AdMajestic187

Perfect-Eye-7205

Pakistan's all weather friend China will compensate them with Brahmaputra water /s

Karmabots

The Indus Waters Treaty, governing water resources between India and Pakistan, is facing significant challenges due to political tensions and climate change.

Indus Waters Treaty and Regional Tensions

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