Public sentiment regarding the Air India Flight AI 171 crash investigation is largely negative, driven by frustration over the handling of the incident, perceived unfair blame on deceased pilots, and a desire for thorough transparency and accountability from Air India and Boeing. Many commenters express empathy for the pilots while demanding a focus on potential technical failures rather than human error. Concerns about corporate influence on the investigation and skepticism towards mental health allegations also dominate discussions.

Air India

Boeing

Investigative Authorities


——

The reputational risk is that people won’t 

fly Air India or Indian airlines because they “have 

something  to hide”.

raytoei

NO, Just NO

The FDR data does NOT support ANY of your delusions

The keywords in the Prelim report are 

"The aircraft air/ground sensors transitioned to air mode"

FLIGHT MODE

That means the aircraft knew it was flying 

Your reasoning is flawed and wrong

BeenThereDoneThat65

But wasn't fadec found to be working properly

impossible_espresso

AyuLmao

\&gt; "He did not...!!"

  
This is what is bugging me, if he wanted it to go down.. there was no reason from him to lie here

U_HIT_MY_DOG

I think your analysis is spot on. This seems to have happened earlier too with ANA.

https://www.financialexpress.com/business/airlines-aviation/ai-171-crash-boeing-787-experienced-fuel-switch-cut-off-in-2019-too-says-us-aviation-expert-japan-pilots-never-touched-it/3917100/

zigzigzigler

Where are upvotes guys? I think this might be the cause

Sure_War577

Sick of this conspiracy garbage being spread around, not a plausible chain of events whatsoever. Completely different circumstances than the ANA event. No software glitch is going to cause those mechanical switches to move. And they WERE originally moved to the off position, more than likely by the pilot.

ComprehensiveDebt262

I aslo thought about it ,dual TCMA activation.

AIRBUS_WORLD

Designating this as the Megathread for AI171 related topics.

Aviator779

https://preview.redd.it/vxel72k1sg6f1.jpeg?width=218&amp;format=pjpg&amp;auto=webp&amp;s=e2fb4ef531acaa9fe79c7706eb982d53bd6c2e36

timonyu

riizenhypenateez

https://preview.redd.it/ldnxwee00h6f1.png?width=1160&amp;format=png&amp;auto=webp&amp;s=6c0bcfe4bb447fd66a9f1763bf526e9e33c97be3

new statement from air india

cuntyzebra

https://preview.redd.it/gjysfztodh6f1.jpeg?width=1077&amp;format=pjpg&amp;auto=webp&amp;s=a7598793b741f7eba860a0c6869f25af65a4cf14

abit_pitchy

https://preview.redd.it/d4kyvs6pbh6f1.jpeg?width=1080&amp;format=pjpg&amp;auto=webp&amp;s=13b81cf04ea8a04c825fb25b57b3270cab8e26bb

One of the Main landing gears

theflawlessmech

Wouldn’t this be the first hull loss of a 787-8?

Crazy_Pop_1746

Loss of thrust; no lift; losing power 

— Pilot's last May Day message to the ATC.

One known survivor of Air India plane crash today in Ahmedabad, Gujarat. 40-year-old Vishwash Kumar Ramesh at Civil Hospital, Asarwa in Ahmedabad. Prayers for his speedy recovery. 🙏
  
Police Commissioner .

Dead_Inside_ASF

[deleted]

“The aircraft gave mayday call” DGCA statement

PsychologicalBass594

Video here - is this legit?

https://www.indiatoday.in/india/video/video-captures-moment-air-india-ahmedabad-london-flight-crashed-after-take-off-2739732-2025-06-12

ParticularBat8489

***Air India Flight AI171 (Boeing 787-8 Dreamliner, VT-ANB) crashed today***

**Route**: Ahmedabad to London Gatwick Crashed in Meghani Nagar, Ahmedabad (residential area)

**Takeoff time**: 1:38 PM IST Crash occurred \~5 minutes after takeoff

**Total onboard**: 242 Passengers: 230 Crew: 12 (10 cabin, 2 cockpit)

**Pilot experience**: Captain: 8000+ flight hours Co-pilot: 1100+ hours

**Passenger nationalities**: 169 Indian, 53 British, 7 Portuguese, 1 Canadian

**Emergency helpline: 1800 5691 444**

Air India has confirmed the incident. The airline is cooperating with authorities. Updates will be posted on: x.com/airindia and airindia.com

*Thoughts are with everyone affected.*

https://preview.redd.it/vxu7urb0sg6f1.jpeg?width=1280&amp;format=pjpg&amp;auto=webp&amp;s=cd1123bafcf41baf87ab6c76bcb6d4037d0c0f7b

Such terrible news to wake up to this morning. Truly hope there are some survivors.

Agent_Mango2

My thoughts go out to the survivors, indicated by the Air India post. From the video, I don’t see how they could escape life-changing injuries. I assumed it would have been an instant death, considering the immediate explosion.

lolyepitme

lots of comments regarding flaps.  Lots of warning sounds if they try to take off without flaps and also if you watch other 787 take off the flaps are not that noticable so i doubt this is the issue.

Fun-Builder6540

Is this the first crash hull loss of a 787?

SK5454

Gear5Tanjiro

https://preview.redd.it/ce984ct11h6f1.jpeg?width=1170&amp;format=pjpg&amp;auto=webp&amp;s=99fa3910807b1644df46c2d5680dc5a0ea8f4a6f

It was carrying of 169 Indian , atleast 53 British, 1 Canadian and 7 portugues People  . The plane crashed at a Hostel of a medical college there were student interns present in the building as of now 133 people are confirmed dead .

https://preview.redd.it/73ekvc4m1h6f1.jpeg?width=800&amp;format=pjpg&amp;auto=webp&amp;s=c3090e784b5e235dea2d836b26acc1e492111ed9

Oh well. Bruce Willis just walked out as if nothing happened

https://www.indiatoday.in/amp/india/story/air-india-plane-crash-survivor-ahmedabad-jumped-off-2739889-2025-06-12

calvinspiff

Apparently there's a new CCTV video available:
https://www.facebook.com/share/v/1FSqZDQ2NU/

g-guglielmi

Deepest condolences to the families. RIP little ones and RIP to all passengers and crew as well any ground victims :(

BKTKL

iusedtobeatwink

https://preview.redd.it/sn6virpo0h6f1.jpeg?width=1170&amp;format=pjpg&amp;auto=webp&amp;s=05d973ee13e5ababd4d7cc7b8852a36e1cc9d2dc

Must have been tricky to step a foot inside on this plane, right after that incident with the same aircraft and same airline..🥲

cheez29

Any news on the pilots? The co-pilot is my brother. Please post as soon as you know something about him.

rk2198hehe

https://preview.redd.it/86bteifx0j6f1.jpeg?width=1080&amp;format=pjpg&amp;auto=webp&amp;s=b868ad34770eb3062fc41d81b40ccc8482b52b76

AshlandPone

https://preview.redd.it/ner734f05h6f1.png?width=583&amp;format=png&amp;auto=webp&amp;s=d0dec01ed66e620784114150949360a3e19cbbba

It's so reassuring knowing the King himself is getting updated.

AdFickle6349

Devastating news. I hope there are survivors 🤞

ThatOne_268

There is one survivor seated on 11A.
Do not think others survived this horrible crash.
Condolences to all the departed souls.

BookkeeperFar7754

Flightradar24 have published on their website that the flight used full length of rwy23 for takeoff roll. FR24 tracking data was initially incomplete. But they’ve subsequently confirmed a/c did use full length

JacobPeatBogg

My previous post was deleted but taking this screenshot, does it look like flaps were extended??

https://preview.redd.it/ed6civkx4h6f1.jpeg?width=686&amp;format=pjpg&amp;auto=webp&amp;s=3f489ed118ac9d67962973ea1cdba482a03d80b1

Upstairs_Factor_4424

Flight Radar feed makes it look like the pilot tried to start the takeoff roll from mid-way down the runway……could explain the low speed + lift.

Edit: quite a few comments stating the data seems to be inaccurate - hope this is true as it will prove my comment to be wrong.

Inverseyaself

# Air India Ahmedabad plane crash LIVE: Ex-Gujarat CM Rupani on board, confirms Naidu; 1 survivor reported in Ahmedabad

Ahmedabad police chief G.S. Malik told Reuters that 204 bodies had been recovered from the crash site. As of now, only one survivor has been reported - a 40-year-old Indian origin British national.

[https://www.hindustantimes.com/india-news/ahmedabad-plane-crash-live-updates-air-india-flight-crashes-ahmedabad-airport-death-toll-news-101749717953751.html](https://www.hindustantimes.com/india-news/ahmedabad-plane-crash-live-updates-air-india-flight-crashes-ahmedabad-airport-death-toll-news-101749717953751.html)

BOOKNANA

Hi all my family often take this flight back home. I’m really interested to know if this would have been the exact aircraft we took previously from Ahmedabad on the 20th of March to Gatwick. If anyone has a premium account and wouldn’t mind having a look for me. This is a complete tragedy. RIP Om Shanti 💔🙏🏼😢

pass_awsccp

Looking at the fireball that ensued when the plane crashed, how tf did anyone survive that? Astounding.

CanuckChick1313

73RnivaG

Reminds me of the footage of the Airbus doing a low pass - AF296Q - which clipped trees at the end of the runway. Pilot blamed fly by wire prevented him from throttling up.

kil0ran

after seeing the cctv video, something had to happen during the lift of, when they got positive rate of climb which caused to cutoff both engines at the same time. could be any unattached cargo caused fuel/hydro damage? that would explain RAT (if it is RAT) visible on pictures. 

takeoff seemed to be normal, they got lift, so the flaps are ruled out atm, i was thinking maybe suicide attempt but the mayday call wouldnt be called in that case. dont think it is fuel issue as many planes uses the same, but could not rule it out as it looks like engine issue at the first place.  birds? I dont think so - very unlikely scenario and also in that case there would be some kind of explosion visible on video as compresor would fail. 

damn, very very interesting indeed!

BarracudaRelevant191

According to simpleflying's video that just came out, it was seen that some were rushed to the hospital so there are some survivors

Update: The passenger seated on 11A survived as the sole survivor from the plane

JC1199154

As a former resident of the city. Super tragic of this to happen. The plane missed India's biggest hospital by 400 metres. Had it not stopped on time by striking the hostel, it would have been disastrous.

harryjarvis96

RAT deployed, gear down and high AOA into stall.  Major loss of power at critical phase of flight IMO.

Randomse7en

There is a video showing the plane's entire journey from take off to crash: [https://www.reddit.com/r/interestingasfuck/comments/1l9no7u/new\_video\_of\_take\_off\_to\_the\_crash\_of\_air\_india/?utm\_source=share&amp;utm\_medium=web3x&amp;utm\_name=web3xcss&amp;utm\_term=1&amp;utm\_content=share\_button](https://www.reddit.com/r/interestingasfuck/comments/1l9no7u/new_video_of_take_off_to_the_crash_of_air_india/?utm_source=share&amp;utm_medium=web3x&amp;utm_name=web3xcss&amp;utm_term=1&amp;utm_content=share_button)

gas_meter

241 dead from the plane. 1 survived. 75 dead from the building it fell on. Many others injured and may not make it.

Bubbly-Fly-9867

New video

https://www.facebook.com/share/v/16SHhXNhrK/

Astronomia_17

There's a survivor! [https://www.reddit.com/r/unitedkingdom/comments/1l9omlm/british\_passenger\_in\_seat\_11a\_survives\_plane/](https://www.reddit.com/r/unitedkingdom/comments/1l9omlm/british_passenger_in_seat_11a_survives_plane/)

Stormflier

What are the chances of at least one singular survivor in a crash like this?

Available-Variety201

PhoenixSpeed97

Seemed like the landing gear was still out and barely no flaps visible &gt; low lift, low speed.
EDIT: not an expert, just thoughts.

PleasantSir9581

This is devastating news. Extremely tragic. RIP all the perished ones, it’s a difficulty journey for the families left behind.

fk067

https://x.com/BNODesk/status/1933131964443168786

New-Link2873

NBC is reporting one survivor.

[https://www.nbcnews.com/world/india/live-blog/plane-crashes-major-indian-airport-200-people-board-rcna212548#rcrd81746](https://www.nbcnews.com/world/india/live-blog/plane-crashes-major-indian-airport-200-people-board-rcna212548#rcrd81746)

DudeFromVA

New update, it seems like there is no survivors from the plane, and dozens of injured on ground.

HamanthaFanatic

One survivor confirmed....insanely lucky guy....

CucumberImportant675

Although I don't like to speculate in such cases and would rather allow appropriate authorities to conduct full thorough investigation.

In this case - it looks like perhaps bird strike on departure causing dual engine flameout. The aircraft reached altitude of around 600ft (according to various reports) - Not enough time to recover if there was a dual engine failure. By looking at some last min footage around it also appears that slats/flaps where not deployed - this is very least likely as in a 787 there is a system which would alert the pilots if they were trying to take-off without flaps.

Following this very closely - awaiting response from official authorities as this is a first total hull loss of B787.

Perfect_Maize9320

One guy miraculously survived the crash according to latest reports.
https://x.com/IndiaToday/status/1933160181871099943?t=2sGrLeD-RkCMiCrG0FoabA&amp;s=19

jawanilaunda

No, or insufficient flaps set at first glance. FR24 shows it took off straight from the taxiway half way down the runway. Previous days that flight has flown they have gone further down the runway before turning around. (Yes I know FR24 isn’t super accurate)

BEKAcoin

Responsible_Carob672

Seems like a dual engine failure to me. That the plane lost its power after reaching v1 and pilots could do nothing about it.

mart_heshep

Fuel Cut off switches moved to CUTOFF one after the other with a seconds gap right after takeoff at 183 Knots. The switches were bought back to the RUN position again, one of the engines achieved re-ignition and EGT rose, while the other engine did not. It was too late at that point.

Dinara293

I can't imagine the horror of the other pilot when they noticed it and it is too late to do anything at that point.

Otherwise_Pen_7667

Additional information from the report:

  
\&gt;&gt;Fuel samples taken from the bowsers and tanks used to refuel the aircraft were tested at the DGCA’s Lab and found satisfactory.

  
\&gt;&gt;At this stage of investigation, there are no recommended actions to B787-8 and/or GE GEnx-1B engine operators and manufacturers.

  
\&gt;&gt;The aft EAFR was substantially damaged and could not be downloaded through conventional means. The CPM was opened to inspect the memory card. The damage was extensive.

SumitDh

Any 787 pilots that could describe what alarms/warnings show up when the fuel control switches are turned off in this stage of flight? How quickly would the memory items and checklists identify those switches as the culprit? 

On this flight it took 10 seconds to switch them back to RUN. I ask because I'm curious if those 10 were fast, and it means one pilot physically saw the other pilot move them, or if 10 seconds is what you get when you don't see the other pilot flip them in front of you.

elheber

I’m having a really hard time coming up with an explanation that isn’t a deliberate attempt to crash the plane.

Someone pulled the fuel cutoff switches in rapid succession (within a second of each other)

Pilot 1 says “Why did you pull the cut off switch?”

Pilot 2 says “I didn’t”.

Then the switches get put back and the engines start to spool back up but there wasn’t enough altitude for a recovery.

Maybe you could rationalize the lying as trying to cover a mistake and just quickly undo the fuckup, but that seems unlikely.

Jdazzle217

Text of the accident flight portion of the report for those who don't want to open the PDF:

&gt; **12. Accident Flight**

&gt; On 12th June 2025, Air India’s B787-8 aircraft bearing registration VT-ANB arrived at
Ahmedabad airport operating flight AI423 from Delhi. The aircraft touched down at 05:47 UTC
(11:17 IST) and was parked at the bay 34.

&gt; The crew of the previous flight (AI423) had made Pilot Defect Report (PDR) entry for status
message “STAB POS XDCR” in the Tech Log. The troubleshooting was carried out as per
FIM by Air India’s on duty AME, and the aircraft was released for flight at 0640 UTC.

&gt; The aircraft was scheduled to operate flight AI171 from Ahmedabad to Gatwick with ETD
07:40 UTC (13:10 IST). The flight was to be operated by the flight crew comprising an ATPL
holder PIC, a CPL holder Co-pilot along with ten cabin crew. Both pilots were based at Mumbai
and had arrived at Ahmedabad on the previous day. They had adequate rest period prior to
operating the said flight. The co-pilot was Pilot Flying (PF), and the PIC was Pilot Monitoring
(PM) for the flight.

&gt; The crew of flight AI171 arrived at the airport and underwent preflight Breath Analyzer test at
06:25 UTC and were found fit to operate the flight. The crew is seen arriving at the boarding
gate in the CCTV recording at about 07:05 UTC (12:35 IST).

&gt; There were 230 passengers on board, out of which 15 passengers were in business class
and 215 passengers were in economy class including two infants.

&gt; Fuel on board was 54,200 Kgs and as per the load and trim sheet of the flight, the Take-off
Weight was 2,13,401 Kgs (Max. allowed - 2,18,183 Kgs). The take-off weight was within
allowable limits for the given conditions. There was no ‘Dangerous Goods’ on the aircraft. 

&gt; The calculated V speeds with available conditions at Take-Off were V1 - 153 Kts, Vr - 155 Kts,
V2 -162 Kts.

&gt; The A-SMGCS replay of the flight was also carried out after the accident. The aircraft was
observed departing from the bay 34 at 07:48:38UTC. The taxi clearance was received at
07:55:15 UTC and the aircraft taxied from the bay at 07:56:08 UTC. The aircraft taxied to
Runway 23 via Taxiway R4, backtracked and lined up. The take-off clearance was issued at
08:07:33 UTC. The aircraft started rolling at 08:07:37 UTC.

&gt; As per the EAFR data, the aircraft crossed the take-off decision speed V1 and achieved 153
kts IAS at 08:08:33 UTC. The Vr speed (155 kts) was achieved as per the EAFR at 08:08:35
UTC. The aircraft air/ground sensors transitioned to air mode, consistent with liftoff at 08:08:39
UTC.

&gt; The aircraft achieved the maximum recorded airspeed of 180 Knots IAS at about 08:08:42
UTC and immediately thereafter, the Engine 1 and Engine 2 fuel cutoff switches transitioned
from RUN to CUTOFF position one after another with a time gap of 01 sec. The Engine N1
and N2 began to decrease from their take-off values as the fuel supply to the engines was cut
off.

&gt; In the cockpit voice recording, one of the pilots is heard asking the other why did he cutoff.
The other pilot responded that he did not do so.

&gt; The CCTV footage obtained from the airport showed Ram Air Turbine (RAT) getting deployed
during the initial climb immediately after lift-off (fig. 15). No significant bird activity is observed
in the vicinity of the flight path. The aircraft started to lose altitude before crossing the airport
perimeter wall.

&gt; As per the EAFR data both engines N2 values passed below minimum idle speed, and the
RAT hydraulic pump began supplying hydraulic power at about 08:08:47 UTC.

&gt; As per the EAFR, the Engine 1 fuel cutoff switch transitioned from CUTOFF to RUN at about
08:08:52 UTC. The APU Inlet Door began opening at about 08:08:54 UTC, consistent with
the APU Auto Start logic. Thereafter at 08:08:56 UTC the Engine 2 fuel cutoff switch also
transitions from CUTOFF to RUN. When fuel control switches are moved from CUTOFF to
RUN while the aircraft is inflight, each engines full authority dual engine control (FADEC)
automatically manages a relight and thrust recovery sequence of ignition and fuel introduction.

&gt; The EGT was observed to be rising for both engines indicating relight. Engine 1’s core
deceleration stopped, reversed and started to progress to recovery. Engine 2 was able to
relight but could not arrest core speed deceleration and re-introduced fuel repeatedly to
increase core speed acceleration and recovery. The EAFR recording stopped at 08:09:11
UTC

&gt; At about 08:09:05 UTC, one of the pilots transmitted “MAYDAY MAYDAY MAYDAY”. The
ATCO enquired about the call sign. ATCO did not get any response but observed the aircraft
crashing outside the airport boundary and activated the emergency response.
At 08:14:44 UTC, Crash Fire Tender left the airport premises for Rescue and firefighting. They
were joined by Fire and Rescue services of Local Administration.

SevenandForty

Essentially, in this scenario you are going to get a significant amount of associated EICAS alerts. The engines provide the main source of electrical power (by proxy pressurization in the 787), hydraulic pressure, etc. A dual engine failure is typically considered an “unannunciated” non-normal. You will see associated primary and secondary engine indications rolling back. It will also display an engine restart envelope. There is no “check your fuel control switches” alert because typically anytime they are touched inflight it is a verified action and the state of them should never be unknown. 

I’d imagine if you didn’t see the fuel control switches moved to cutoff, this would be incredibly disorienting / shocking, especially so quickly after departure. 

I fly a Boeing product, after reviewing our 787 manuals.. it looks like the immediate action item(s) are essentially the same. Which is basically “fuel control switches- cutoff then run”. Which will kick start the relight logic for the EECs. There is some auto-relight logic but I don’t think it would be effective with the fuel control switches in cut-off for obvious reasons. 

10 seconds to get these switches back on is, in my opinion, a pretty good timeline considering how jarring the whole situation was.

Edit
I’d like to add that this emergency scenario (extremely low altitude dual engine failure) is likely not trained by any airline regularly. It’s so incredibly unlikely for these types of aircraft to experience, that the time spent in the simulators is best spent elsewhere. 

Barring some really strange issues, only a few situations would realistically cause a dual engine failure and some of them are pretty obvious to the pilots. Bird or FOD ingestion, volcanic ash ingestion, fuel freezing or contamination. Most of these would likely happen at altitude which provides time to potentially get at least one engine restarted or adequately prepare for a ditching or forced landing. 

These guys didn’t have the luxury of time or altitude.

fallstreak_24

Some thoughts:

- When the pilot asked, “Why did you do it?”, I wonder what the tone was. If it was shouted or sounded surprised, it could hint at whether it was said by the pilot who actually switched off the fuel or by the other pilot. Why? Because in a highly stressful situation like this, it would be incredibly difficult to act convincingly or fake emotions.

- It’s mentioned that the fuel was switched back on 10-13 seconds after being toggled off. The question is: when exactly did the pilot (whichever one it was) ask, “Why did you do it?” If it was said immediately, why did it take so long to turn the fuel back on? If it was said after 10-13 seconds, perhaps the pilot who asked was the “good” one - who only noticed the issue late and realized the switches had been turned off.


These two details might be crucial in determining whether the “Why did you do it?” was a genuine reaction or an attempt by the responsible pilot to save face.

AtomR

https://aaib.gov.in/What's%20New%20Assets/Preliminary%20Report%20VT-ANB.pdf

Greenlight0321

[Check this video 37:28](https://youtu.be/UDBzNj8QNKw?t=2248) It clear that the switches require considerable effort to be able to move. Also, both the switches in the video were turned off within an approx time difference of 1 second.

Individual_Wing375

We went from accident to Germanwings really quick.

OptimusSublime

Full credit to the AAIB - very detailed step through the events, and an explanation as to the delay in the preliminary report, due to substantial damage to the EAFR necessitating specialist equipment to retrieve data.

The_Vat

I will say a big sigh of relief came from my team once we started to see the data roll in.  Mostly in a “it wasn’t us” kinda feeling.  It wasn’t one of our designs that would’ve contributed to this, which is always something we can hold our breath on until this comes out.

But man oh man… somehow this is worse.

Fairycharmd

Imagine like Germanwing without need to lock other pilot out of the cockpit. The plane was full of gas and could not possible to recover at that height.

Friday911

Photo of the [switches](https://theaircurrent.com/wp-content/uploads/2025/07/ai-171-fuel-switches-graphic-jo.jpeg) that are physically gated for those still thinking the aircraft was hacked. 

There has been a massive blame campaign in India over the last month, telling citizens the pilots will be blamed to cover up for Boeing (done by influencers). This misinformation has sadly spread everywhere, with many Indians attacking anyone who says anything different online. Please stick to factual reports and don't buy into or spread this misinformation.

I just pray the families get the help they need

aussiechap1

The image of the wreckage from overhead really show the enormity of such a horrific crash

tjspill3r

Do you think it was the Captain who pulled the fuel switches? Since the FO would be focused on take-off?

theOJgotSqueezed

The most telling part of the preliminary report is the cockpit voice recording where one pilot says, “Why did you cutoff?” and the other replies, “I didn’t.” That does not sound like guesswork. It suggests the pilot actually saw the fuel switches being moved, most likely by the other pilot. The co-pilot was flying the aircraft, so the captain would have been monitoring and had easier access to the switches. Both fuel control switches moved from RUN to CUTOFF within one second of each other just after take-off, which is incredibly unlikely to happen by accident. These are separate switches that normally require a clear, physical action to move. The fact that the pilot identified the cause immediately, rather than reacting with general confusion, makes it seem even more likely that he saw the captain move the switches or reached for them. Whatever the reason, it points to a human action being involved, not a mechanical failure. Whether it was deliberate or a catastrophic mistake is still unclear, but the evidence so far seems to point to the captain.

eldwaro

Honest question for pilots here:

So under the hypothesis that this was "pilot suicide" (and/or homicide), would there be any other action the suicidal pilot could/would take to *ensure* their intended outcome?  (For example, violently jerking the stick, raising the flaps, flipping key switches, etc.)

The reason I ask is because it seems odd to me that a suicidal/homicidal pilot (or co-pilot) would just flip these switches and then "wait patiently",  i.e. watch the other pilot switch them back on and try to recover.  Understood that a crash was fairly certain to happen once the initial action was taken, but the other sane pilot *might* have miraculously been able to at least mitigate the extent of the disaster and perhaps save some lives.  It seems to me that -- if the intent really was nefarious -- the person who shut off the switches would have continued to try to sabotage things right up to the end, even to the point of struggling with the other pilot.

I guess we'll find out more in the final report, but in the meantime, I'm just puzzled by what seems like an apparent "lack of follow through" on the part of the offending pilot (notwithstanding the fact that he did apparently still achieve his goal(s), assuming our hypothesis is correct).

shockema

&gt;If you can have your hand on the throttle for both engines then you can certainly bump both switches.

You must have an arm with a very different range of motion (and dimensions) than mine, because having your hand on the thrust levers of a Boeing twin doesn’t put you in a position to knock the start switches at all. Maybe from the jump seat, but not from either of the operating crew seats. 

So now we’re saying the accident aircraft had not one but two failed locking mechanisms *and* the near-but-not-quite-simultaneous inadvertent bumping of two switches that are located in a part of the pedestal where it’d be damn near impossible to inadvertently bump it during a part of the flight where there’s nothing at all to do but select the gear up - geographically nowhere near the start switches - seems have a probability on par with a thing that’s happened quite a few times, actually.

flightist

| Time       | Event                                              |
|------------|----------------------------------------------------|
| 08:08:33   | V1 reached (153 kts)                               |
| 08:08:35   | Vr (rotation) (155 kts)                            |
| 08:08:39   | Liftoff (~155–180 kts)                             |
| 08:08:42   | Max speed reached (180 kts)                        |
| 08:08:43   | Engine 1 fuel cut off (N1)                         |
| 08:08:44   | Engine 2 fuel cut off (N2)                         |
| 08:08:47   | RAT deployed / Engines at minimum idle            |
| 08:08:44–52| Pilot A asks Pilot B why they cut off fuel         |
| 08:08:52   | Engine 1 fuel set back to RUN                      |
| 08:08:54   | APU inlet opened                                   |
| 08:08:56   | Engine 2 fuel set back to RUN                      |
| 08:09:05   | Mayday call transmitted                            |
| 08:09:11   | Aircraft crash                                     |

32 second flight (crash - liftoff)

Not____007

Reddithelpme001

This is the most plausible theory I've seen for this to be an actual 
pilot mistake and not a deliberate act.

&gt;I don’t know if the FDR measures the switch position or the electrical signal. The latter is probably more likely, although there has been much discussion around potential scenarios involving accidental switch movement as well as possible causes of electrical glitches. Let’s assume that the switches were actually moved, and ignoring the “bad faith” scenario, we need a situation that encompasses the switches being moved to Cutoff by one pilot, this action being queried by the other pilot and denied by the pilot who moved the switches.

&gt;For consideration, here is a possible scenario that hasn’t been mentioned yet and encompasses the frailty of human performance. The report mentions that the flight crew on the immediately prior flight had written up a "STAB POS XDCR" status message, and that troubleshooting was carried out. I wonder if the scenario could be that the accident crew received a Stabiliser EICAS message on or around take-off and the Capt (who was PM) decided to action the first checklist item immediately from memory, by intending to move the Stab switches to Cutoff but moving the fuel switches instead. As in all modern Boeings, the Stabiliser Cutoff switches are immediately next to the Fuel Cutoff switches and operate in the same sense (i.e. down for Cutoff). They are guarded and never normally moved but, with an intent to move the stab switches, “muscle memory” (cerebellum activation if you prefer) may have taken the Captain’s hand to the Fuel switches, which are operated on every flight. The FO (who is PF) is manually flying at this stage sees and queries it. The Capt denies it, as he doesn’t realise what he has done (confirmation bias perhaps). After a few seconds, the terrible mistake is realised, and the fuel switches are moved back to run, but sadly too late and the Capt makes a Mayday call.

&gt;Perhaps a bit of a stretch but not as much of a stretch as many of the other scenarios in this thread. I think it is a real possibility. Sadly, the only other explanation that I can see is the deliberate “bad faith” scenario, which we would all hope is incorrect.

Found on a pilot forum [here](https://www.pprune.org/11920122-post189.html).

I think a deliberate murder-suicide by one of the pilots is still most likely, but I thought this was interesting nonetheless.

BlessShaiHulud

Switch order question - when starting up the plane on a normal day, is it always engine 1 then engine 2. Or would a pilot hit the switch closest to them? 

Assuming it was a different person who switched them back on than who switched them off. You’d think it would be 1 off, 2 off them 2 on 1 on. Depending on which side the person is sitting on. But it went 1 off 2 off 1 on 2 on. If there was a physical confrontation you’d think the orders would be different. Bad pilot would switch off the closest switch, good pilot would switch on the closest switch.

wolf_of_walmart84

Genuine doubt: pilot A asked "why did he cut off" and not "did you cut off". The "why" makes me think it was intentional or one pilot did it unknowingly. Either pilot A saw pilot B move the switches and hence asked why or pilot A did it himself and tried to frame pilot B. 

If the pilots didn't move the switches, their first question (i would assume) would be - did either of them move it, not "why". 

Not an aviation expert, this is just what came to my mind

Fueledbycawffee

From what I have read, assuming the switches were set to cutoff deliberately, it would have more likely been the pilot monitoring, rather than the pilot flying. Am I correct in assuming the investigators would already know which pilot was assigned which responsibility for the take-off phase?

AnonymousMuffin37

For those who are wondering how fast these switches can be turned from Run to Cut Off, refer to this video from 37:27 [https://youtu.be/UDBzNj8QNKw?si=dWQOOa1fVwev\_yOJ&amp;t=2247](https://youtu.be/UDBzNj8QNKw?si=dWQOOa1fVwev_yOJ&amp;t=2247) . Shows you how quickly it can be done and how hard it can be for the PF to see what the PM is doing.

tattikadibba

So is it too early to jump to the conclusion and call it a sabotage attempt?

Or there's more to it now?

AgentRacro

The investigation into the Air India Flight AI 171 crash in Ahmedabad, which resulted in 260 fatalities, has brought attention to potential pilot mental health issues.

Air India Flight AI 171 Crash Investigation

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