The public is deeply outraged and saddened by the persistent caste-based violence in Tamil Nadu, particularly highlighted by the murder of a Dalit engineer. There is a strong demand for social justice and reform, with sentiments reflecting both despair over the lack of justice and hope for change. The public strongly criticizes the caste system and calls for impactful journalism and government action to address these systemic issues.

Government officials

Journalists

In Tirunelveli, it's part of the social life. It's passed down through generations. Parents, Relatives enforce the caste, social boundaries is strictly practiced, people do not cross them. Many Girls are given advise early to not marry, love a guy of different caste, it will bring unwanted pain, suffering. Other than that, politics is connected with caste, lot of working class, rural villages are connected to parties based on caste-lines. 

Churches are organized or draws members by caste-lines, majority will be one caste, people see caste, they might not tell you, unfront, yet they practice them. 

Villages are organized along caste-lines, there's flag, community, events based on caste like celebrating Karate Selvin's death-anniversary. It's among both men, women. If you ask about eradicating it, reducing it, good sociology question; I am unaware other than Ambekar's prescribed answers.

Outrageous-Grab-6446

political power is disproportionately given to Obc's now and most of the caste atrocities are done by them to sc/st.

kingbradley980

I don't care if I get downvoted but I feel like this is necessary -- we need to look at reforming reservations for obc/sc. Obviously removing reservations is stupid and saffron kannis who say that "reservations cause casteism" are completely removed from the common man.

But you and I both know that many of the castes who commit these atrocities are dominant land owning castes who really should not be getting the reservations that they are getting.

97% of the population being OBC/SC/ST makes no sense. In literally every other state except for TN land owning castes are in general category but here dominant landowning castes are OBC and have disproportionate power. And it is these same castes who commit 99% of the atrocities and come up with dumb theories like nadaga kaadhal.

Why is someone from a powerful landowning caste that claims that they were the descendants of the Cholas competing on the same level as someone who is from a truly backwards community?

In Kerala casteism is way way way lesser (keep in mind 100 years ago Kerala was the most casteist place in India) because -- along with removing brahminical hegemony -- the landowning castes were also neutralized through strong land reforms. In TN the land owning castes were the ruling parties, evaded land reforms, lobbied for reservations and becoming OBCs, and now have no one to challenge them.

Caste isn't just about education. It is also about land and wealth. Before the ones with education were oppressing the ones without. But after that was neutralised, now the ones with **land** are oppressing the landless.

I think the solution should be either communist style land reforms or the complete opposite -- give SC/STs huge amounts of capital/loans to make sure they are included in the industrial wave. Right now the problem is that of uneven capital distribution and it doesn't seem like it is getting better.

Edit: Also reform reservations and move any overrepresented OBCs to general category

Only_War9703

Because affirmative action is working, Dalits are moving up the chain and are slowly but strongly moving out of poverty and this growth is driving the aanda paramparais mad.

One important point,
Many people have started thinking that Thandai Periyar's movement was about opposing Brahmins when in fact he was opposed to aanda paramparais as well. So this equation of only the Brahmins are wrong has given these OBCs(with huge lands) some sort of reprieve. Somehow the self respect movement became that of aanda paramparais instead of the lower and lowest castes, so it became important to be rid of castes as long as it was against Brahmins but not when obcs(like the vanniar or muthukulathor or gounders or naidus) are perpetrators. It's not sufficient just opposing casteist Brahmins you need some safe guards to keep these casteist OBCs in check as well.

No_you_don_t_

There may be many reasons for that. I want to pinpoint few important reasons

* Caste Pride Movements

Communities organized strong caste-based identity movements, especially post-independence

* Geography and Social Segregation

Villages and even urban settlements are still spatially segregated: Dalit colonies (cheris) are often outside or at the margins of the main village/town area. These physical divides reinforce caste boundaries and reduce day-to-day social integration

Chenthilk_1

Eradication of caste name is the first step I'd say. Yk something is better than nothing.

kichu06

Mob mentality. Only 3/4 caste group is majority in those districts. This grouping prevents them from having a cordial relationship with others.

Not much industrialized so there is no migration or even a decent floating population results in people being rigid. Children grew up with caste difference right from school, caste outfits exploit them during festivals, elections. 

One solution is dump more &amp; more Sipcots, Tidal park in Tirunelveli Tuti belt, bring more people into formal economy. When the local demographics change the rigid mindset will vanish slowly leads to more acceptance.

Which_Ad_1819

Where there is power or authority, there will be discrimination and suppression. Simply put, the upper castes have been replaced by OBCs. The level of suppression has been reduced, but it has never ceased to exist.

Unless it is taught in all our kindergartens or at homes on how to interact with fellow human beings with respect and empathy, this will never go away 100%.

quanta777

Yeah I'm from Tirunelveli. Here every street has a caste. People here live as a community ( caste and family they consider both the same) so it's so hard to eliminate caste in these regions compared to cities. People judge other characters and capabilities by their caste. I have witnessed many riots among youngsters who fought for their caste. Mostly for silly reasons like paints, to simply showcase their pride they fight. Some of them will realise once they go to cities for work others who are working &amp; studying inside Tirunelveli will keep on holding their caste. 

I think the agenda has to be there to every political party. But parties are using this for their own benefits. I have heard people saying that they vote for a particular candidate because he is their caste. Political parties are well aware of that too. In my opinion the ruling and opposition party both are a bad example for how a democracy has to be practiced. Having that said, there should be some proactive steps from the government. Like may be a rally to spread this political idea. And maybe from school there should be a separate subject called ethics where social awareness and issues will be discussed on a basic level.

livine_

But they will only blame brahmins. Who are voiceless and wont hit back.

BadgerCandid9849

Bcz region is less developed unlike rest of TN🤷


Also more violence nature.


Caste exists everywhere. But **coupled with violence** is what you see in south TN


In south TN, becoming police is many guy's aim &amp; considered kinda powerful. Whenever inspector/SI belongs to SC, they harass OBC with fake PCR, etc. similarly when Inspector/SI is OBC, SC atrocities will be silenced 

Ambitious-Dinner4533

Mbc and obc folk are the main perpetrators of casteism in tn, not the Brahmins or other OC folk. Tell me if I’m wrong!? 

But DMK still does appeasement politics doing a lot of brahmin bashing. If they have what it takes, they should stop them from doing all the honour killings and shit. 

I’m not taking specific caste names only to not offend the good folks in that castes. We all know who are the culprits here.

v_patti_ramasamy

Not just south. It’s prevalent in kongu region too

flightofaneagle

South TN is worse, so is North TN areas of Dharmapuri, Ariyalur etc.

Some guys in the comments making it seem TN is the worst state for Dalits and removing caste names did not help and blaming OBC led Tamil Nadu as the problem. OBC led Tamil Nadu is less violent than states ruled by general castes.

Eradication of caste names did do their part

https://preview.redd.it/05w7de387egf1.jpeg?width=583&amp;format=pjpg&amp;auto=webp&amp;s=7cd08627736b4416aa8b4da23740123ba6136752

Hot_Mail_9398

I think caste has become something sensitive to these people like religion and god. It would be difficult to educate or even eradication might make them more enrage to withhold it. For them it’s a privilege, if you suddenly remove the perks they will have hard time accepting it.

Perhaps TN government can consider to introduce policy to uplifting Dalits community by giving them special opportunities economically with education sponsorship, housing allowance etc, higher quota in government sector etc. Also encourage intercaste marriage by offering them monetary benefits for them for their kids. Now, it’s the government job to make being Dalits is also privileged. 

Idk maybe this would change their mind …

Anxious_Shoulder1212

Sufficient_Abies4568

Does Kanyakumari come under this umbrella?

Practical_Ant_9676

Didn’t y’all remove papans and still couldn’t end casteism?

Court-Emergency

Lack of development, jealousy that lower caste people are doing well etc, unless their is development these problems won't go away.

Similar-Custard-811

Only education can help, but again you see murder like Kavin and doubt that. As long as people benefit from caste identity they are not going to shed it off. Should just eradicate it, like no more caste certificate etc. but we are not there yet

DangoManUtd

Before Dravidian parties in power - TN full of jaadhi veriyans

After Dravidian parties came to power and ruling for 55+ years - TN full of literate jaadhi veriyans.

Summary - Dravidian parties have played an excellent role in maintaining the jaadhi veri across all spectrum. 

Change will happen only when a SC/ST starts winning from several common constituencies than just the reserved ones, get more representation in cabinet / ministries than just a token number of 10 or.lesser. Parties like VCK must be able to stand on their own and start winning the vote share of SC/STs who are 20% of TN population .But DMK won't allow VCK to grow, and so it goes.

Efficient-Ad-2697

Nope, this conflict does indicate the development of SCs compared to other parts of TN.

Southernmost TN (Tirunelveli, Tuticorin and Nagercoil) have the Highest HDI in TN and are a better place to live than North,East TN

You will not find any SC living in Thatched huts even in Villages in this area anymore as they have moved up the ladder and the majority of OC/OBC population gives way for them, you can easily see SCs living in the best areas of the city like Thiyagaraja nagar, Maharaja nagar, KTC nagar with a house built on full ground

This is in strong contrast to places like Delta region, North TN and Kongu region were the oppressed are still oppressed and live in Kudisais

Thunk_Truck

The idea of caste itself is not wrong and is not evil. It helps you understand your lineage, track your roots and history, and that's a wonderful thing to have. It teaches you acceptance of the past to move forward. Not everyone has the same roots. It is important to understand the economic inequality caused by discrimination. 

What’s wrong is “not accepting others who are different from you”. It requires an inclusive mindset, and many Indians do not have that. This is not the problem of cast itself but rather the narcissistic mindset of people towards diversity.

NamelessMonsta

tamil nadu is leading in caste based violence because here politics is caste based, whereas northern states have more religious violence because politics is there religion based, so there is no religious discrimination cases or violence cases, there would be no polarization the hindus won't be insecure and won't vote based on religion, same thing is here in tamil nadu but here religion is changed with caste, more caste based violence more votes for parties promising anti caste laws and actions

Training-Plane-245

Unfortunately, caste always was, caste always is and caste will always remain. Our people do not want to get out of this caste system.

And that's why you are seeing such tragic incidents. Even a movie was made in Marathi called **Sairat** which was a blockbuster. The message was against caste based societal issues. But well, now sadly, it's like life imitating art.

naturalizedcitizen

And people have the audacity to claim that caste doesn't exist in India today.

Solid-Service-2863

sagej1raya

But saar Periyar and DMK demolished the Brahminist Naarth Indian Caste system

FuckingTransit

Marrying in caste indirectly marry bro and sister just few generations away

getchandan

Ok-Scar-1105

The crime that passed through generation. I hope one day people on earth find love regardless of color races

Saitama2042

The crime that passed through generation. I hope one day people on earth will find love regardless of color, races

And people still ask why indian keep giving up their passports

LeaveMiddle8702

The culprit was a youth. I used to proudly say that the younger millennials and genz Indians were well educated and did not carry these bs regressive opinions. Boy was I wrong.

_conspiracy_man_

Please mention to which caste the killers belong to!!   
FYI, The killer belongs to OBC.

Worried-Stock2204

Illustrious-Low3173

https://preview.redd.it/7m1ybydpq1gf1.png?width=1080&amp;format=png&amp;auto=webp&amp;s=e489c18a85b229185555178d397111550f64d31a

googleydeadpool

Why is it that when I hear about caste crimes it is the southern states whose name I hear most often? Don't they act like they are best at caste upliftment and shit?

Cantbelievewemadeit

Ecstatic_Addendum407

She really said "Inter-Caste Relationship" while educating us

sussypukadiehardfan

FinePersimmon3718

i am not from india but how do you identify a person who is  lower caste or "dalit"? or upper class

Crafty_Campaign7009

India in 21st century, doesn’t matter Islam or Hindus, religions and zealots are the worst 🤡

JLordX

NewtOk6010

Saar 100% literacy saar

North Indies bad ppl saar taking our jobs saar

Time_God7818

But his name suggests that he converted to Christianity to escape from caste oppression?

Curious_Variety777

AppearanceUseful8097

Aggravating-Unit-254

At this point, if you do love someone from another caste, don't show it publicly. First, save enough money to try and settle abroad, then take her too. Then both of them can live a peaceful life there.

Elegant_Objective127

Only real solution to this is to increase reservation till these UC people dont get admission anywhere !! Then we can marry their daughters

Sudden-Airline-1330

Despite chanting dravidianism and dropping surnames still casteism exists, And look at assam- no such divide, people happily doing inter caste marriages.

FormalFlight3477

They mf cast is destroying general and st sc both...
 We are not getting jobs and the latter blow*obs.

xrajdev

Fickle-Stick3413

Popular_Cod_5770

Now where are all the ppl who get their a$$ burnt? They used to speak as though this is not relevant to today's world when Ranjith, Mari etc shows the same in movies. This country will always have religion, caste, race, colour, etc divided us and that’s never going away.

sexyluv07

We are south indian sarr we are very educated than north indian sarr. We dont have caste system sarr - Avg south Indian sambar vada

Parking-Flounder-373

South Indians say they are progressive and superior than north people:)

Witty-Firefighter198

RepresentativeOk9517

[deleted]

&gt;Kevin

Bruh there is no caste in Christianity

ITBP4Atheist

cosmonaut-zero

Idk how tamil film industry is so bold in raising voice related to caste injustice but the state itself is among the most castiest

Shiroyasha_a

&gt;▪︎ HOLDS HIGHEST NUMBER OF TEMPLES *STARTED BHAKTI MOVEMENT *HAS THEIR OWN VEDAS IN TAMIL

&gt;▪︎ DON'T HAVE CASTE NAME AS A SUR NAME

&gt;▪︎ DON'T MIX RELIGION WITH POLITICS

&gt;▪︎ CONTINUOUSLY VOTE TO THE PARTY WHO HATES SANTANA DHARMA

&gt;▪︎ STILL GOES TO TEMPLE TO EVERYDAY

So, what? Still, Tamil Nadu is a casteist shithole.

YYIMAHH

It's definitely not better than Rajasthan. Who told you that? Caste is one aspect where both these states and most others are perfectly at par.

Agitated_Cupcake5181

It is more like tribal wars here. People won't ask you about caste and discriminate irl in most cases (though discrimination based on looks(correlated with caste) is there). But there are inter caste fights especially in Far North &amp; South TN. 

People don't associate with Sanatana Dharma(aka North Indian Brahmanical Hindusim) because our form of hinduism is different from them and consequently it is the land owning castes who discriminate people here. 

Because most castes are deemed shudra, it is more of a 'my tribe is better than yours' kinda dic measuring competition instead of the varna based discrimination (apart from those done by land owning castes). But i have to acknowledge dalit oppression is still found here. 

The % of casteist people is less, but the intensity with which those c*nts discriminate is fking worse.

Tamil society is one of those silent, insular, prejudicial, conservative societies you'll find. But I see hope in the educated, knowledgeable youth who don't associate with the castes they were born into and try to question the status quo.

IntuitiveMANidhan

What's going on in TN is different from what is happening in the rest of India specifically who the elites in TN are and who wields more power(and it's not the Brahmins).

It's not the Brahmins that are powerful there, it's the other dominant OBC castes that dictate terms even with periyar's movement and all(periyar was against caste and religion, even had a self respect movement).

First let me go about the pros,

- The self respect movement had a tremendous effect on mobilizing the lower caste people's aspirations to achieve higher dreams and outcomes relatively much long ago(50s and 60s). The congress was slow, please note that for an average tamil, congress is rightwing and BJP is ultra rightwing extremist party.

- We even had movements where brahmin's kudumi(the pony tails) were cut off. I don't think any other state would dare do what we did.

- Brahmins are openly bashed in the movies and are ridiculed we have so many comedies from Kollywood that strongly but in a light hearted way show how Brahminism purports discrimination.

- Many including Brahmins understand why reservation is required not just because of economic disparity but also due to what discrimination over a long periods of time had done on the psych of discriminated community.

There are much more things that had happened which really helped most tamils see the issue in a rational light.

The cons - (disclaimer I am Brahmin but I have tried my best to see things in a rational way when talking about other castes and want to present the issue as is but my possible bias should be noted),

- The caste atrocities and murders you see today are done by powerful OBCs communities.

- Honor killings are also there either both the couple who were in love are murdered or just the boy from a different caste(note that this happens in almost all castes irrespective of the perpetrators being people in dalit or from other castes).

- Sadly I find that the void of brahminical discrimination has been filled with another numerically dominant caste dependign on the region(eg., vanniyar in vellore) with similar casteist self interests and its own vauntings which are structurally similar to how Brahmins used to flaunt their superiority, be it kummi attam or other caste based assertions that flaunt the pride of that community.

However dalit groups fight on the same footing and are also known to retaliate harder that anywhere else in India(note that we cannot group all the government said SC castes as Dalits as Vanniyar who are a warrior castes had forced the Dravidian regime to provide them with SC level reservation). Paryar and anrundhadiyar fight against other castes on equal footing and terms, which is a big win as far as self respect movement is concern. They atleast have it in them to give it back.

The role and the power of a Brahmin's discrimination is reduced to oral discussions in closely knit groups or whatsapp universities, albeit them being discriminatory in nature against  all Dravidian groups, castes do not feature as much in their discourses.

The self respect movement though had not stopped the discrimination had given hope to many dalit to stand against oppression. Anyone critiquing it lack these insights

&gt; Don’t mix religion with politics 

The churches definitely urge Christians to vote for DMK. The DMK government is known for supporting the building of Christian churches.

potatoclaymores

*DON'T HAVE CASTE NAME AS A SUR NAME
Wrong. Certain names are attributed to certain castes. So one can guess the caste based on the first name. Plus, these days, people ARE putting surnames behind their names which denote to their caste. Not caste names, but names which act as identifiers of their caste. Trust me, the only difference between us and Bihar in terms of caste is that, over here, no caste has been allowed to have major political power. Each party has its own caste identity that keeps the rest in check, to an extent. Tamil Nadu isnt overflowing with caste, but it is drenched in it.

DON'T MIX RELIGION WITH POLITICS
- We do. Caste determines who gets elected, religion follows a close second.

CONTINUOUSLY VOTE TO THE PARTY WHO HATES SANTANA DHARMA
- Because we have been conditioned over decades that if we let guys from the North inisde, we would not have jobs, will impose Hindi etc. Also, people here believe that if we let the Northeners inside, they would treat us the same way we treat the lower castes.

*STILL GOES TO TEMPLE TO EVERYDAY
- Nope, I dont want someone to steal my sandals.

Party_Egg6072

TN is a complex situation. One on hand it is extremely violently casteist but on the other hand,Dravidian politics did help control Brahminism. Spoke to a few Tamil Ambedkarites,who admitted that it is very casteist but Dravidianism did help them gain social mobility.

Metisis

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sanatan ≠ hinduism ?

observe ap and telengana if you want to see the influence of brahmanical society.
the difference between Andhra and telengana isn't about veg vs non-veg, telengana preserved most of its native culture and their native gods without any interference of Brahmin priest and they still following their old Dravidian cultures.

BillaBrr

SavageSizzler

Look for caste based Massacre in Independent India, Tamil Nadu tops. [wikipedia](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Caste-related_violence_in_India)

animus33

TN is ruled by the most corrupt party in Bharat's history.

The party that hates Bharathiya Dharma, buys votes for cash and freebies.

Casteist politics, almost every party is based on a caste, and they are in an alliance.

Caste name were removed in fear of not getting a Govt job, and to hide their Telugu and Kannada lineage.

Dravidam, not even an original Tamil word, is abused and has no meaning anymore, as other dravida states dont share the same ideology.

Pomegranate-unKnown

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OP - What you mean by Dravidian Politics? I mean, how are you differentiating it from common politics?

As for the answer - It's because, caste-based politics is still prevalent in TN.

Additional_Sunset

Dravidian Politics itself is a movement of &amp; for &amp; by OBC Collectives. It's against both OCs and SC/STs. Goes w/o saying DMK is the creme of D-Politics.

While the D-Hate politics or EWS denial against OCs is visible on the top, the D-Hate against Scheduled Castes is subtle &amp; under the hood.

Proud_Bandicoot5235

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Just so everyone knows: The people irked are Vanniyars, they are OBC and MBC. In other words it's OBC and MBC people getting angry at Dalits for asserting their rights.

https://preview.redd.it/zcisenp3nfef1.jpeg?width=1080&amp;format=pjpg&amp;auto=webp&amp;s=089dfd0d0483b066cb5f15b950a7bc5fa28ceb18

ReasonableBeliefs

Because we called out Brahmins for casteism and took measures to distribute those privileges. But all these news items, including your own post will flash "upper caste" without daring to name the offending castes. They react with violence if they're called out. Many legally backward castes have unlimited political power. No one wants to address this. The day we are brave enough to name the offenders, we'll be on a path to true equality.

Lattice-shadow

May Tamils realise that Aryan caste concept is going to be our downfall.

sivavaakiyan

why are we still using dalit whenever a movement trys to abolish it gives a new name to that .

Historical-Ant-5218

Though your question seems valid. The thought of a parai being played in a temple premise gives me the icks. I always have seen it in death processions mostly. I apologise for my shallowness. 

But yeah someone is shedding light on the discrimination by obc/mbc towards the sc/st folk. Obc/mbc is the core vote bank of dmk. A key reason they are sticking to the stale narrative of brahmin bashing that was true during periyar times but not so much today. If Periyar was alive today, he would be rightly addressing this issue. He’s great leader true to his purpose. The entire MK family is simply favouring vote bank politics

Parai is not meant to be played for Good occasions. Wtf is going on with you guys ???

girigaalanmagicshow

Why only tamil society???????? Why not a bengali brahmin??? Or a kashmiri pandit?? Or any other hindi speaking bihari dalit???


Edit: I am a non-vegetarian Brahmin.

Separate-Code9945

First and foremost you should absolute respect for god and beliefs to person worshipping...and what does that have to anything with DMK who doesn't care... even worse hating themm...and then do politics out of it..to gain votes...since seeing the rise of people worshipping they have started to do politics.....inclusion shouldn't come out of hatred as DMK tries to do it...it should come with geniune inclusion in both sides and respect to the god and place.....and DMK again has totally opposite views of it to do politics with it....and how is it benefitting a group when most of temple money is used for people welfares in tamilnadu...even tamilnadu government will agree

goodplace5678

The brutal murder of a Dalit engineer over inter-caste relations has sparked widespread protests and highlighted issues of caste discrimination.

Caste-Based Violence in Tamil Nadu

Why This Matters

Public Sentiment Summary

Highlighted Comments

Parties Involved

What the people want