Public sentiment is deeply polarized regarding the Israel-Gaza conflict, reflecting significant frustration towards both Hamas and the Israeli government. Many commenters attribute the humanitarian crisis in Gaza to Hamas's actions, criticizing its leadership for exacerbating the situation. Conversely, there is overwhelming criticism directed towards Israel's military operations and perceived hypocrisy in addressing suffering among hostages versus the broader plight of Palestinians. The comments convey a mix of sympathy for innocent victims and anger towards both sides, underscoring a complex emotional landscape.

Hamas

Israeli Government

International Media

Real security guarantees, or like the ones Ukraine got in exchange for the nukes?

MouseJiggler

How have security guarantees worked out in the past?

jseego

How exactly would Saudi provide security guarantees against Iran?  From my perspective, Israel just took care of Iran and will only need to continue mowing the grass until the Iranian people topple the regime.  What help did the Saudis provide exactly? Jordan provided more help.

  
As far as the Palestinian state is concerned, Palestinian emirates can join the Abraham Accords. Otherwise, their peace is illusory.

  
NB: Not an Israeli, but when my kids are targeted for being a Jew in the diaspora, I get a voice but not a vote.

taxmandan

there is no such thing as security guarantees from them and no one to guarantee that

the entire world calls fatah the moderates while they are insanely unpopular(they dont hold elections because hamas will win) and they literally pay pensions for terrorism against israelis , does not matter civillian or not

the truth is if israel pulls out of west bank entirely there will be a catasrophe for the entire country

recognizing something which palestinians arent even interested in is pure insanity and extreme self gaslighting , and just like with gaza we will suffer immensly for decades to come

and no I do not agree with ethnically cleansing jews from a place called judea and samaria (call it west bank as much as you want , you and me know it aint the truth)

Iaminvisible145

Palestinians don't want two states, how can you give guarantees if they don't relinquish claims to all of Israel?


Most Israelis don't care about Judea and Samaria more than anything, but there is zero trust that giving them away will not mean a Hamas terror state on our doorstep.

Obv I can't see the future so I'm talking with the perspective of the present.

Ok-Commercial-9408

The Palestinians wont accept any deal no matter what, and once Abu Mazen dies, which is coming in the near future, the power vacuum will cause Palestine to descend into even more chaos. That is unless a new leader who is a reasonable human being magically appears but I dont see it happening. 

Just to put it in perspective, in the most recent polling I could find, from September of last year - when asked about support in presidential elections:  
  
"If presidential elections were held between three candidates, Marwan Barghouti of Fatah, Mahmoud Abbas of Fatah, and Yahiya Sinwar of Hamas, Barghouti would receive 32% of all respondents followed by Sinwar at 31% and Abbas at 6%; the remaining respondents say they will not participate in the elections. If only two candidates were in the competition for the presidency, Mahmoud Abbas of Fatah and Yahiya Sinwar of Hamas, turnout would drop significantly and in this case, Sinwar stands at 41% and Abbas at 13% and the rest do not wish to participate in the elections. If the two presidential candidates were Marwan Barghouti of Fatah and Sinwar of Hamas, turnout would rise to 67%. In this case, the vote for Barghouti among the entire public would be 35% and for Sinwar 32%. When asked to select a successor to Abbas, the largest percentage (37%) said they prefer Marwan Barghouti, 30% said they prefer Yahiya Sinwar, 10% chose Mohammed Dahlan, 5% chose Mustafa Barghouti, and 15% said they do not know or chose someone other than those listed."  
  
So in other words, the populace wants to go in the opposite direction of where they need to be headed to be trusted. They support one of the worst terrorists Palestine ever created in Marwan Barghouti followed by the since deceased Sinwar. Barghouti is rotting in prison, sinwar is dead and abbas will be dead by the time they hold the next elections...given all of that just imagine the turmoil that will come when Abbas can no longer hold everything together.

ANP06

Short answer: No.

Long answer: Do you know ANYTHING about what happened around here in the past... 40-ish years?

1) There are no, have never been, and never will be "security guarantees". See Gaza for example.


2) The Palestinians don't want a state. The only people who want a Palestinian state are foreigners who hate Jews with no skin in the game. You're ignorant, willingly or not, to the fact that these people are raised from day 1 to hate Jews and want to kill Jews. There are no protests in Gaza, Judea or Sumeria to establish a "Palestinian state", it's a false narrative.

As such, given personal history, current events, and knowing the history of the Jewish people and the history of the state of Israel, the answer is: NO, trading land for peace HAS. NOT. EVER. WORKED.  MOVE ON ALREADY!

RexxarTheHunter8

Those “guarantees” would be less than worthless. Normalisation with Saudis should have no preconditions of any pali state. They don’t want the normalisation? No worries. Israel will be fine without it. It won’t be fine with a bigger Gaza on the other side.

DarthKava

Saudi needs Israel more than we need them. I'm very much against any move that threatens our security especially when our wonderful partners don't really want a peaceful state next to a Jewish one.

I will vote against any candidate that advocates for land for peace. It only emboldens radicals.

For example, like how Hamas became wildly popular after the 2005 disengagement, after which the Gazans learnt that terror pays.

Revolutionary-Copy97

Most young people in particular don't know about the details of the many offers of statehood gratuitously rejected by the Palestinian government as recently as 2008 that would have created permanent borders and mutual recognition. That, sadly, does not seem to be the goal of the current Palestinian government from Arafat to Abbas.

In 2000 Arafat walked away not just from a Palestinian state with a capital in East Jerusalem but all of Gaza, too, and 96% of the WB with 4% of Israeli territory added in to make up for the settlements annexed. Plus a $30 billion compensation package, $56 billion in today's dollars. Per Bill Clinton (who led the negotiations) in his interview with Andrew Ross Sorkin last December, YouTube NYT channel "Citizenship"

Dr_G_E

Put it this way: none of the possible benefits of any of these deals matter at all if the Israelis feel like the Palestinians getting a state would amount to suicide. Which, to be clear, is precisely what the Palestinians are saying it will be at the moment.

magicaldingus

Palestinians only benefit from refugee status. If they become an actual state, Israel can treat them as such. This is why over the last 7 decades, they’ve refused deal after deal.

Automatic-Load2836

Sinan_reis

Under what borders? With what goverment?what about "the ruhht of return"?  What are the terms of the sedurity guarantees? 

No one in Israel particularly cares about Saudi Arabia, and definitely not enough to take this kind of risk. if they want to normalize relations with Israel they are free to do so without trying to to force the 2 state solution.

SoulForTrade

it would be 15-20 years of intense deradicalization before we allow this lot to govern stuff for themselves.

No guarantees made by us till the borders of israel and the safety of israelis is guaranteed.

ElkWitty6345

Not Israeli but I am getting really sick and tired of depopulating the Jewish part of Hebron as a condition for a 2 state solution. It says a lot about what people think Palestinians are capable of that no consideration is ever made of just giving those Jews Palestinian citizenship.

Certainly I know the people here would say that condemns those Jews to death. They might be right. I really don't care about arguing about that. I am more interested in what that says about the potential of peace.

What concerns me is that Israel has proven capable of integrating Palestinians into their nation without anyone dying. And yet we all expect peace to be possible with a group of people that most of us don't think can live peacefully with Jews among them. Otherwise, the settlements, in Gaza, the West Bank, or even the Sinai, would have nothing to worry about when it comes to their continued existence.

What difference does it make if Jews can't be safe in Hebron, why do we think they will be on the downslope of a mountain to Tel Aviv?

Lefaid

What would be the borders of this ‘Palestinian State’?

thewearisomeMachine

The Palestinians would have to show a true change of heart and a total acceptance to a Jewish state.I would say for larger land swaps why would Jews be the only people that have to move .Why aren't we asking Palestinians to accept Jews who live in the areas be allowed to live there.

EditorPrize6818

I don't know any West Bank, only Judea and Samaria. 

To answer your question, there'll never be any guarantees that can be made to make this situation safe for Israel, unless you deploy soldiers from 2 different countries to stay there forever, which no one will ever do.

I'd also never support a terror state in the Middle of Israel, with access to all major cities in 30 minutes, the Oct 7th they would unleash from that territory will be 50x what Hamas did.


Israel should never listen to any third party "promises", as their promise will be worth less than sand.
Just as we signed the Oslo Accords and the West promised us we'd sing Kumbaya with them afterwards.
The result is known to all of us.

Infamous-Tie2163

There would have to be full normalization and a strong government with popular legitimacy. Full normalization meaning the Palestinians won't be waging diplomatic warfare against Israel with the hope of provoking a regional war or otherwise weakeing Israel's standing. Even an India-Pakistan situation would be a downgrade from the status quo. If Palestinians want a state (which they don't), they have to be willing to offer Israel something of value and not just a peace of paper.

Alienstreak

Hypothetically, sure. There’s no permanent peace without either two states or an ethnic cleansing.

But *believable* security guarantees are quite a stretch. I still think the Mosisch is more likely.

jmartkdr

security guarantees from whom? who's gonna guarantee that? honest question, because no one in the world today is willing to even admit palestinian human beings took part in 7/10, and need to bear responsibility for their choice to do it.

theoretically? yes, i would agree to it. but in reality, after the world had reacted in 8/10 to a massacare just a day before, in what hands should i trust my life in? would you do the same?

Substance_Bubbly

If the Palestinians had ***wanted*** a state, **they could have declared independence and nationhood at any time.**

That is how *most* modern countries came into existence. 

Their statehood would be *immediately* recognized by most other countries.

They do not declare themselves a state ***on purpose***. 

They have no desire to give up their current situation.

***They do not need Israel’s “permission” to declare themselves a state***

OsoPeresozo

No, 
for as long that I breathe I will be against a Palestinian state.

Berkovitz96

Why should the Jews have to be ethnically cleansed from a Palestinian state? shouldn’t they be given citizenship, protection , and property rights in Palestine if that’s the side of the line their house and land falls on? Should Hebrew  be a dual official language any new Palestinian state in Gaza and sections of the West Bank like Arabic is in Israel?

Hugogol

For as much as Israel wants to make more friends, Israel's top priority is its safety. Normalizing relations with SA isn't worth a Palestinian state.

Security guarantees? How? From whom? Are they trustworthy? To what extent are those guarantees? What happens if they "promise to defend Israel when it gets attacked", but when Israel DOES get attacked they do nothing?

Security guarantees are simply words on paper. They can easily be unabided. And what then? Israel will learn they can't trust anyone, but it has already paid the price of giving up land, meaning it lost land and gained almost nothing in return (just like Gaza back in 2005).

Listen, in an ideal world the Palestinians would've recognized the mistrust issues arised and would've approached Israel for a 2SS that answers all of Israel's security demands. Israel would've presented its terms that would make it feel secured enough to make such a move, the Palestinians would've agreed and a BELIEVABLE 2SS would've been implemented. Sadly, Israelis are afraid such a scenario is an unrealistic pipe dream (and rightfully so based on Palestinians' behavior in the past and the present).

I WANT a 2SS to be implemented. I WANT the ideal scenario of co-existence. I simply don't think a Palestinian state in the current status-quo will accomplish that. Unless the Palestinians will do a 180° and agree to all of Israel's terms that'll make it feel secured enough, a 2SS is not happening.

Itzko123

I am going to add to all the other points re: lack of security guarantees that there is also the simple fact that, in reality, the place we actually have a historical connection to, that is, Judea... Is not Tel Aviv. The Jews got massively screwed in all partition plans, they were willing to take what they could get, but that was seventy years ago.

I am not a proponent of some kind of messianic zeal here, but let's be clear about what it is we would be giving up. If - and that is a HUGE if - the Palestinians ever swerve to an ideology that allows for a two-state solution, we can argue about which part of Judea and Samaria each people gets, and why, and it's clear we are going to be giving up some parts of historical Judea, but we really need to start thinking about which parts matter to us, as well.

That's all just an argument over territory, though. The point is moot so long as the conflict is two peoples with two different goals.

Way_too_grad_student

No.

That isn’t to say that I’m against some form of demilitarized self-determination &amp; autonomy for the Palestinians in the West Bank &amp; Gaza.

But think that both Hamas &amp; the PA need to go &amp; that we need to maintain security oversight for the foreseeable future.

It will take 2+ generations to truly deradicalize the Palestinian people &amp; while I think that there should be a road map to sovereignty, it needs to be based on security for Israel &amp; tied to action &amp; actual progress with deradicalization.

After 10/7 it simply isn’t reasonable to expect us to have faith or trust them, they will need to build that trust &amp; confidence through a long &amp; consistent track record.

Any future Palestinian state must also demonstrate a respect of the human &amp; civil rights not only of Jews but of their own people - it is foolish to think they can be trusted to make peace with us when they don’t respect the human rights if their own people.

There is no benefit to the world, to Israel or even to the Palestinians to create yet another failing Islamist state which oppresses her minorities.

irredentistdecency

I'm not Israeli, but I think a Palestinian state would be a terrible idea. Especially as it would look like the October 7th atrocities were being perversely rewarded by the world.

Also I personally consider Saudi Arabia an utterly rotten country that's really no better than the Iranian regime.

Sadako241

There is no way to guarantee security. Who guarantee it?

Sleeve_hamster

Nobody wants a Palestinian state in the West Bank. The first who don’t want it (beside Israel) are the Palestinians. But in the west, they want it for moral/ self-righteous reasons. Arab states like Saudi Arabia also want it for propaganda reasons - to show they are doing “a lot” for the Palestinians people. 

Saudis - why won’t you take into your immense country, a few million Palestinians (temporarily). Life in places like Gaza is hell (even after the war will be over). A Pal state on the West Bank will not help Gaza by a mill. Still there are million refugees in Lebanon, Jordan, Syria, Egypt. These people will not be served by an independent state on the WB. 

Fact: nobody talks about it, but in 10-20 years, the Gaza Strip will become uninhabitable (economy, water sources, over crowding, etc).

Oberon_17

If someone wants Palestine to exist so much, they can shave a part of THEIR country to make that happen.

Gaza could've been the Palestinian state, and look what happened.

When the Jews were given a swamp, we dried them, made the soil better and made a country out of it. When the Arabs got a perfectly fine piece of land they turned it back into a swamp, but with rockets and tunnels.

I will never advocate for something like this ever again.

AvengefulCorgy

I  could support a Palestinian state in the Saudi peninsula and a treaty with Saudi Arabia.

 iI cannot in good conscience at this time endorse a Palestinian state in Judea and Samaria, nor do Palestinians actually want that.

We shouldn’t even be discussing this now. We should not be rewarding the October 7th holocaust.

212Alexander212

I’m not Israeli but Jordan is the Palestinian state.

HeyyyyMandy

I wish it was possible. But do they even want a State? Palestinian elits benefit too much from being transgenerational "refugees", they are never hold accountable of their crimes, and have refused deals to become an independent state again and again for 80 years.

Ionisation1934

hinaultpunch

Have France carve out land for the Palestinians

yisthecarpetwettodd

I thought the French are giving the French Riviera to pallys

Due_Investigator_700

I would fully support a demilitarized Palestinian state in the West Bank (no Jerusalem, no return) in exchange for them actually accepting statehood, and being held accountable *as a state*.

At that point,how is it any different than the Arab proposal that promises normalization that all members of the Arab League will normalize relations with Israel if a Palestinian state is established?

The entire breakthrough of the previous normalization agreements was the fact that they were done over the Palestinians' head. This is just solving the conflict,at that point, all countries save from Iran, and maybe North Korea, will normalize relations with Israel.

mr_blue596

ready2roll1

Israelis don’t give a fuck if the Palestinian call themselves a state, a kingdom, the communists republic of Palestine, whatever, as long as the Palestinian violence stops. 

ZBlackmore

I support to promise for Palestinian self rule/autonomy eventually. When is that eventually? God knows. 

If the Saudi's demand is state for recognition, then I dont think Israel should mind waiting longer and working on cool projects like AI and Quantum computing. Israel's society is not hell bent on normalization with Saudis. Its something that would be really nice to have (especially due to communications with the Saudis on how to shape Middle East without radicalization), but in my opinion creating a Palestinian state with Palestinians still dreaming to destroy Israel will just be worst for Israel in the long run.

anik1n7

paradox398

Good luck getting a guarantee. Ain’t gonna happen.

LynnKDeborah

What does "security guarantees" mean?

Also, it doesnt matter if palestine is recognized or not, if the people still choose terrorism over other value then why does it matter if there is normalization?

NegevThunderstorm

No way. Jewish autonomy and homes in Judea and Samaria are the #1 priority.

"Peace" with the Saudis will come anyway through Israeli military and economic strength.

borderpac

After a minimum of fifty years, where no Antisemitic, and definitely no antizionstic propaganda is not legal paractically, and officially, in media and schools.

and No terror attacks are being planed, not to mention attempted.

Then they can have survey, and if they want it. sure.

I.E. After we have a minimum of two generations of safety. it can be on the table.

Until then. We have had *many* assurences, by nations we actually have a reason to trust, that blew up in our faces. so no.

Leading-Chemist672

makingredditorscry

I support a two-state solution with the caveat that Palestinians must forever, definitively and irrevocably renounce any claim to any right to ‘return’ to any territory within the borders of the State of Israel as it is defined by Israeli law.

The two-state solution cannot be used as a vehicle to getting all of the land.

taintedCH

Why is a Palestinian state in the West Bank with security guarantees a controversial idea?  Those guys are sane.

Ax_deimos

How are these two things even remotely related?

orten_rotte

Theoretically, that’s the ideal to me. It’s my dream. I’d love nothing more than normalizing relations with Saudi and everyone else, and I don’t think the occupation should exist. In practice, we’ve had security guarantees re: Hezbollah in Lebanon and look where it got us. So that would be a yes with a huge, red, glaring caveat. I’m also extremely wary about rewarding October 7th like that, but nobody seems to be asking me, lol.

thepinkonesoterrify

If we ever needed evidence that October 7 killed the two-state-solution on the Israeli side pretty much irrevocably for generations, the responses here are it.

TurbulentChemistry8

tbh I think Israel should exit most of the west bank and build a defendable border wall.  
if they want to have a state it is up to them, if they want to have an anarchy where they kill each other, that's fine.  
peace will be achieved with a strong defendable border and immediate disproportionate retaliation for breaching.   
after 10 years of no attacks, we can talk about normalization, but in the meanwhile, zero work visas, zero cross border hospital visits.

vishnoo

I personally would like to see a Palestinian state as long as it is agreed that it will be demilitarized for the next x years or until a new agreement is reached out about that.

sumostuff

Complete_Health_2049

Jordan has 3x the land as does Israel, and 70% of the Arabs in the "West Bank" are just Jordanians whose ancestors came in during the Jordanian occupation from 1948-1967. Jordan needs to bring at least half of these occupiers back and house them in their homeland. No one ever talks about the 50-70k Jews who were displaced in Judea and Samaria after 1948. Israel should have dealt with this repatriation in 1967.

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AutoModerator

Also, if shitrael is willing to free them for a prisoner exchange, then they are really admitting there was no reason to capture them in the first place. Let's start calling "Palestinian hostages captured by zionists."

thatlightningjack

also another big thing is how the news and media is reporting it being sympathetic to the hostages being isntreali but the palestinians one don’t even get the same coverage or love as well from the media!

Omairk25

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devilslittlekitty

I'm pretty sure at this point, the goal is not to stop until they have their hands on hard evidence that proves all the insane bullshit coming out of Hamas, UNRWA and NGOs.  It's floating around in those tunnels somewhere.

Mixilix86

Ok.  Serious question here.  Why on earth did the IDF leave territory and then allow Hamas to come back.  Why did it not capture territory and keep it from the beginning, separate civilians in guarded humanitarian zones and choke off Hamas.  Biden?   Does the IDF have a numbers problem?   I mean you need to completely clear an area, advance and KEEP that area killing Hamas as you push them out, vetting civilians into enclaves with hospitals etc set up behind you.  

That’s what I would have done.  I don’t get it.  They could have been done by now.   Maybe.

Lexiesmom0824

The #1 goal has always been the hostages but not the current hostages.  It is the prevention of hostages being taken in the future.  And that can only happen if the group that is in power does not blatantly say they want 10/7 to happen again and again (and keeps firing rockets into Israel as they have for the last 20 years).  And to remove their munitions.

The secondary goal is to retrieve the current hostages.

The tertiary (and lower) goals are to avoid deaths of IDF and Gazan civilians. 

The problem is that no action that supports one of those goals does not harm the achievability of another goal.  So you have to consider tradeoffs.  You might disagree with which tradeoffs Israel has chosen but I believe they have made tradeoffs within the framework of the above goals.

NoTopic4906

The hostage crisis is why Israel can’t occupy Gaza. The Hamas have been using the hostages as leverage to prevent Israel from taking over the territory. Israel comes into Gaza to take out as much Hamas as possible, and then it leaves territory because of the hostages. 

Normally, counterinsurgency progresses in stages. First, the military comes in, takes over the territory. Then, it takes out all the terrorists hiding among the civilians. Then, it establishes an occupation regime. Then, there’s some kind of political process. Israel is stuck at stage 1 (mostly) because of the hostages.

BizzareRep

All hostages cannot be released or rescued. It is obvious that at this point Hamas (nor other militant groups) do not have possession of all the bodies. Many hostages were originally kidnapped by Gazan civilians, not organized factions. Given the amount of destruction and leadership chain breakdown of the factions, clearly they cannot produce all remaining hostages/bodies. At most, 40-50 of 65? Possibly less. That is my gut feeling.

With more then a dozen hostages outstanding, Israel will keep the legitimate excuse to continue the offensive until all of its other goals are completed.

PowerfulPossibility6

If the hostages were released, then one of Israel's main justifications for continuing the war would no longer be a consideration.  That just leaves Hamas to be dealt with and Operation: Gideon's Chariots, will continue to separate civilians from Hamas, isolate those combatants, and eliminate them either by combat or forced surrender.

Hamas cannot be allowed to remain viable in ANY capacity.

DiamondContent2011

Of course hamas let Palestinians suffering like Netanyahu didn't care about his own people

DifferentMaize9794

This is a golden opportunity for Israel to take care of the "Palestinian problem" and the world signalled that they would not intervene. From Israel's POV, ofcourse they would prolong the war, hostages be damned.

It_is_not_that_hard

This is not about Israel. This is about Netanyahu.

PoudreDeTopaze

what will change is that we will be able to take our time, we will keep the siege going on like before but we will allow ONLY(no rockets) humanitarian necessities to get in and gazans to get out until hamas surrenders, so eventually even if they will never give up, they will run out of weapons and they won't be as much of a threat

Other-Carrot-958

I've argued from the start that this war was justified, but since Biden lost the lection Israel's tactics have taken a very ominous turn. Unfortunately I don't think Israel has much of a plan for Gazan civilians anymore but brutality and retribution. Right now the plan is for someone after the war (gosh only knows who) will take up the job of keeping Gazans from starving in the hundreds of thousands while Israeli security forces look on.

Chazhoosier

If all of the hostages were released/rescued tomorrow, we'd likely see some kind of final push by Israel against before international pressure forced them to back off. Israel would probably create a new buffer zone who knows how long within Gaza and wall that off. Israel would also only agree to peace with a leadership change, so the war would still continue until the PA or an international peacekeeping force came in to handle everything.

If Hamas continues to fight and all of the hostages are eventually released or rescued, Gaza will probably be even more destroyed Israel continues to track down and dismantle the tunnel network from the air. Israel will say that Hamas had their chance and that the people of Gaza had their chance to return the hostages, rise up, and/or report locations of Hamas to the IDF. 

Israel doesn't really need anything more than the support of its own population and the Trump Administration backing them to a greater degree than the last administration. Aid should be provided and has been restarted as predicted. 

it sucks

ip_man_2030

[deleted]

sadly the reality is that Hamas' seizing of hostages will not gain Gazans anything meaningful when it comes to the Israeli state. it intends to seize the land and there's billions in natural gas, a potential canal to the bypass the Suez and a geopolitical statement to those who oppose Western hegemony at stake, among many other strategic gains. Israel intends to seize the land not because the US will "let" them, but because the US benefits from it, and nothing short of a miracle will stop them. so we keep praying and turning those prayers into action.

TheCompostor

Israel is pretty open that its plan now is to make Gaza as inhospitable as Trump will let it so that as many Gazans as possible will permanently flee the territory, thus enabling Israel to seize large swathes of territory for security zones. Let's all act surprised when occupation forces turn a blind eye to settlements springing up in the security zones like in the West Bank.

The war is not about the hostages. It's about preventing Oct 7 from happening again.

Savings-Diver-8348

Yes, this war in Gaza starting 10/08 is about returning the hostages.  It never would have happened if not for the terror attack.  Big picture: it’s pushed Israel farther to the right, so the only thing it accomplished was the achievement of Hamas’ ideological goal to spread Islam to the world by forcing population transfer to the suicidally sympathetic west.  It was win for them, Sinwar’s swimming with his virgins.

whatnowyesshazam

It was always more about taking out Hamas than the hostages. In fact, the war itself put the hostages in more danger, as Hamas would likely have negotiated for their release in exchange for no war at the beginning.

With Israel's success in taking out the rest of Iran's proxy armies surrounding them, Israel is going to ensure that Hamas does not come back into power. The push for international agencies and Arab governments to get involved will begin soon.

Taxibl

It’s also about destroying Hamas so they can’t k!ll our families…

un-silent-jew

There are two priorities:

1. Destroy Hamas
2. Get back the hostages.

Destroying Hamas is more important than getting back the hostages because if you don't destroy Hamas, they will murder more people and take more hostages in the future.

Routine-Equipment572

The primary imedeate objective in this war has always been the destruction of Hamas as a political and military entity.

The primary long-term objective in this war is to establish sufficient security measures and structural environmental changes to plausibly prevent any likelihood of another attack, like October 7th, occurring again. 

The secondary objective is the return of all hostages dead or alive. Preferably alive, of course.

Israel has maintained a standing offer to end their war with Hamas without delay should they agree to return all hostages and dismantle their regime. Hamas has refused that offer and continues to do so.

Israel's effort to achieve those objectives have been obstructed by outside political interference, sanctions, and arms embargos along with the need to defend themselves from attacks from Hezbollah, the Ayatollahs regime, and the Houthis as well as securing there northern boarder from the Civil war and regime change in Syria. 

Due to having significantly neutralized these other threats and having support assurances from the Trump administration, Israel is now in a position to more effectively achieve their primary objectives.

As with any country attempting to secure the return of hostages it is essential that the hostage takers are not rewarded for their crime and therefore are not encouraged to repeat it in the future. The previous ceasefire was a skillfully negotiated agreement that maximized the return of as many hostages as possible while giving minimal military advantage to Hamas. Once the hostage return was restricted, the obvious decision was made to recommence military engagement to achieve all the objectives of the war.  

The new strategy includes the establishment of a huge humanitarian zone in Rafah directly supplied without aid or civilians needing to interact with combat zones. This strategy will effectively segregate civilians from Hamas militants, removing Hamas' influence over them and the ability to extort them. Both of which will severely weaken Hamas while also impacting the sanctuary  required for Hamas gurila warfare tactics to be effective. Civilians will benefit from safety, sanctuary, and efficient supply of food and medical attention without risk of further theft and extortion by Hamas. 

Israeli forces will be able to concentrate better on the systematic clearing of Hamas Street by street, forcing Hamas to move hostages and potentially yield more opportunities to rescue hostages although this is always going to be at great risk. It is already the belief of Mossad that at least half of the hostages are already dead. Given Hamas already delayed the return of hostages and eventually returned the bodies of dead hostages when they had agreed to return living hostages. Those bodies being.

Shiri Bibas (32),
whose corps was initially not returned and instead the body of a diseased Palestinian, was presented as being her. Forensic analysis of Shiri Bibas's body found no evidence that she was killed by an air strike as claimed by Hamas.

Ariel Bibas (4) 
Kfir Bibas (9 months),
Both found by forensic analysis to have been killed by their captors with bare hands and not by air strikes as claimed by Hamas.

Oded Lifshitz (83) forensic analysis showed that he was not killed by an air strike in the months before his body was returned and had been killed in captivity a year before his body was released.

It is highly likely that very few Hostages are still alive today 
Publicly, it is stated that 58 hostages in total remain captive, of which 23 might still be alive. This number is likely optimistic due to the sensitivity towards the families of those victims.

Evans Alexander was released in a side deal with the US being the last living American hostage.

The bodies of 4 americans Itay Chen, Gadi Haggai, Judi Weinstein Haggai, and Omer Neutra have not been repatriated.

There is believed to be one Thai national alive in captivity and one Nepali national alive in captivity.

Many of those hostages that are no longer alive are not believed to be in Hamas possession.

Sherwoodlg

&gt;But nothing was done to retrieve them.

Israel has been warring with Hamas for almost 600 days attempting to retrieve the hostages. Finding 20 people out of 2,000,000 is not 2 day mission. Hamas has been using tunnels and human shields to hide the innocent hostages. 

The Israeli government made it clear from the start, the goals of this war are to return the hostages and dismantle Hamas. 

Why can't both be true? 

Israel still maintains the position that a ceasefire can be immediately achieved if the hostages are returned and Hamas relinquishes authority. 

Hamas wants none of that. They don't want to return hostages. They don't want to relinquish control. They don't want a ceasefire. Hamas' most effective weapon against Israel is dead palestinians. They will fight this Jihad to destroy Israel until every last Palestinian is Martyred. 

[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vdmtfRj6KX0&amp;pp=ygUIbWVtcmkgdHY%3D](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vdmtfRj6KX0&amp;pp=ygUIbWVtcmkgdHY%3D)

[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sh9ySTbYlnA](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sh9ySTbYlnA)

[https://www.fdd.org/analysis/2023/11/01/hamas-officials-admit-its-strategy-is-to-use-palestinian-civilians-as-human-shields/](https://www.fdd.org/analysis/2023/11/01/hamas-officials-admit-its-strategy-is-to-use-palestinian-civilians-as-human-shields/)

thedudeLA

Hamas can easily prove that this is "not about the hostages". Just release them all! Done. Easy peasy.

Sensitive-Note4152

Why is it so hard to comprehend to you?

The great whole comes first - security of Israel. That means Hamas must be destroyed and Gaza controlled.

The hostages are in priority behind this.

It does NOT mean Israel does not want hostages back. They very much want to get them, there is no contradiction.

SpeedySnail990

It’s absolutely about them but not JUST them, Israel is a country and as such its priority is the safety of ALL OF ITS CITIZENS, so eliminating Hamas is also an objective, how hard is it to imagine there is more than one goal for a war?

OmryR

Agitated-Ticket-6560

Returning the hostages is important to Israel. Preventing another October 7th is more important to Israel. This was always the calculation.

MissingNo_000_

if it's not about the hostages then just release then, very simple...

Having hostages still being held by Hamas helps the colonisers justify expanding their colony. 

Antisemitism helps Zionists justify their actions. 

Simple as that!

HugoSuperDog

Not as the foremost priority, no.

The remaining 23 living hostages (and to a lesser extent the corpses of the 35 killed) getting home are important- but are far outweighed by the importance of ensuring there are not 200 more hostages in another 5-10 years. Returning hostages home cannot be at the expense of safety for Israelis going forward.

WeAreAllFallible

Here is reason returning hostages is not top or only reason.  Hamas says we return all hostages but Israelis give up all their weapons and give them to Hamas.  If returning hostages was top or only goal then Israel would have to do it. This example shows that returning hostages cant be top or only goal.

Ok_Maximum_5205

khangaldy

It isn't ONLY about the hostages. It is about getting the hostages back but even above that, it is about disarming and completely destroying Hamas so nothing like October 7th ever happens again. Hamas has publicly announced that they plan on doing October 7th attacks again and again, so they must be wiped off the face of the Earth.

If they ONLY get the hostages back and don't wipe out Hamas, in a few years, Hamas will rebuild and then stage another attack and take MORE hostages and we will be back to square zero.

quicksilver2009

Are the hostages a priority?  Yes.  Are they the top priority? No.  I think the top priority is making sure there are no potential future hostages and making sure Israel doesn’t get attacked.

There are many goals (including, in my mind, avoiding civilian deaths and destroying Hamas’s weapons cache).  The problem is that there is no action that helps one goal without harming another goal.  So goals must be prioritized.  And calculations must be made as to how much you can hurt/give up on a goal to accomplish another goal.

Example: let’s say Israel has information that there are 3 living hostages in a building that is also used (and only used) by Hamas and currently gas 20 of the top 25 Hamas leaders.  Should Israel hit it?  Emotionally, I would say no.  Logically, I would say yes.  Is it an easy answer?  No.

Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu aims to implement a complete military reoccupation of Gaza to defeat Hamas and secure the release of hostages amidst international criticism and humanitarian crises.

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