Public opinion on NATO's support for Ukraine is highly polarized, reflecting strong support from some for military aid as a means of safeguarding sovereignty against Russian aggression, while others express deep skepticism and frustration concerning the effectiveness of NATO's strategies, calling for peace and greater responsibility from European nations. There is significant concern about the implications of NATO expansion and critiques of the socio-economic impact of prioritizing military spending over local issues.

NATO

European countries

United States

AskTrumpSupporters is a Q&amp;A subreddit dedicated to better understanding the views of Trump Supporters, and why they hold those views.

**For all participants:**

* [Flair](https://www.reddit.com/r/AskTrumpSupporters/wiki/index#wiki_flair) is required to participate

* [Be excellent to each other](https://www.reddit.com/r/AskTrumpSupporters/wiki/goodfaith2)
            
**For Nonsupporters/Undecided:**

* No top level comments

* All comments must seek to clarify the Trump supporter's position

**For Trump Supporters:**

* [Message the mods](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose?to=%23AskTrumpSupporters&amp;subject=please+make+me+an+approved+submitter&amp;message=sent+from+the+sticky) to have the downvote timer disabled

Helpful links for more info:

[Rules](https://www.reddit.com/r/AskTrumpSupporters/wiki/index#wiki_rules) | [Rule Exceptions](https://www.reddit.com/r/AskTrumpSupporters/wiki/index#wiki_exceptions_to_the_rules) | [Posting Guidelines](https://www.reddit.com/r/AskTrumpSupporters/wiki/index#wiki_posting_guidelines) | [Commenting Guidelines](https://www.reddit.com/r/AskTrumpSupporters/wiki/index#wiki_commenting_guidelines)


*I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/AskTrumpSupporters) if you have any questions or concerns.*

AutoModerator

If and only if the ultimate plan is to turn Russia into a vassal state.

I suppose if the economic value extracted from Ukraine was larger than the expected cost of its defense it could be justifiable, but I would never trust those calculations are performed impassionately.

Delta_Tea

A western powers defense agreement with Ukraine is an existential threat to Russia. It is the reason that Russia went started seizing territory. Russia will not agree to a peace agreement with NATO in Ukraine or even the prospect of NATO in Ukraine. That means Russia will risk a war with the west because they feel they have no choice. If Russia is losing that last stand war with the west they will use nukes.

The only way that I would support NATO in Ukraine is if Russia completely dismantled all of their nukes under the watchful eye of international inspectors.

mrhymer

[deleted]

Not at all, and that is because NATO should not even exist anymore.  The main reason for NATO existing was to counter the Warsaw Pact amongst the Soviet Union during the Cold War.  Three of those four things do not exist anymore.

I'm being serious.  The main reason for NATO's existence evaporated over thirty years ago.  Why is it still even around, and why has it continued to expand eastward - despite almost every US President promising Russia that NATO would not expand any further eastward.

There was a Russia before the Soviet Union, and now there is a Russia after the Soviet Union.  The Soviet Union was a fluke.  It could have happened to any country.  In fact, Trotsky and Lenin waited twenty years for an opportunity like WWI Russia to happen.  Mentally and physically weak and ineffectual monarchy.  Rasputin.  World War decimating their forces.  Lack of technology.  Citizen unrest.

It is not the Soviet Union that we are in a proxy war with.

What percentage of fault would you assign to America for the Ukraine/Russia war?

ClevelandSpigot

technoexplorer

When Ukraine makes a clear and compelling case that: 

- it meets the requirements for NATO membership 
- its membership in NATO advances American interests (direct, specific, quantifiable where possible) 
- its membership in NATO advances the alliance’s interests (direct, specific, quantifiable where possible)

DidiGreglorius

well, they can join any time IMHO if they want

Russia's complains about "encirclement" are nonsense, they have had NATO close to St Petersburg since 2004.

I support the other option.....

Much less involvement of the USA in NATO

Ivan_Botsky_Trollov

1. Europe meets ~~its~~ **our** defense spending targets, so that they can more effectively participate in common defense. This should be a prerequisite for any NATO expansion, not just Ukraine. 

2. The current war ends completely. Victory would be nice, but what really matters is a clear and enforceable long-term peace agreement that allows them to join. Peace is paramount 

3. Peace and stability must be demonstrated, which can't happen overnight. I don't mind NATO helping to enforce peace terms in the meantime, but actual membership in an 'all for one, one for all' alliance should require sustained transparency and stability that can't really be demonstrated in proximity to war. In a perfect world, 2, 3, maybe even 4 administrations should come and go during the joining process. 

4. Prior to Russia's invasion, Ukraine was regarded as one of the most corrupt governments in Europe.  That's not really the main thing right now, I get it -- but it becomes important again when the war is over and we're cozying up to the peacetime regime. I would want some kind of assurance from the State Department that we won't just be shoveling money to foreign oligarchs, but rather that diligence has been done and the government we support will be free, fair, and democratic. Otherwise y'know.... what would be the point in defending it?

sielingfan

I would absolutely support Ukraine joining NATO. Just not now, while it would require American boots on the ground.

I fully realize that this is a terrible idea and would inevitably lead to American boots on the ground, but hey, it's going to happen eventually, so let them handle their current situation what with an invading army trying to take over the country and then let them come back to the table and see what is being offered.

Note: Putin can choke on something for all I care.

JustGoingOutforMilk

No because I don't think it's in America's best interest to protect other nations. 

random_guy00214

Gaxxz

Sure, Russia could join at the same time.  They were looking to join a while back.

AGuyAndHisCat

I'd support Ukraine joining, if Russia could join too.

Owbutter

I'm not sure.

It would have to be peace time (no war with Russia) when they joined for me to be comfortable iwth it.

There would have to be enoug support from allied countries to ensure it didn't cause a neuclear retaliation from Russia (or anyone else) / not start a global war.

sfendt

As long as nuclear weapons are on the table, it is not a wise idea.

A NATO threat results in a non-zero chance that nuclear weapons come into play.

If you think Trump is crazy, and do not think Putin is equally or more crazy, I do not know what to tell you.

whateverisgoodmoney

If Russia joins NATO, I'd support Ukraine joining.   Otherwise it's an unnecessary provocation.   

NATO isn't a military charity umbrella, it's a mutual defense pact.   Ukraine doesn't add to our defense, it only makes us more vulnerable, so should not be admitted.

JoeCensored

Certainly!


The USA leaves NATO. There ya go.

prowler28

I actually think this question is awesome, because it shows the actual political divide here- are we or are we not willing to call Russia's bluff? 

This is exactly the question I was asking leftists a few years ago back when Biden let the invasion happen under his watch - if Russia is going to promise to escalate if foreign countries get involved, when does the buck stop with us? Why support Ukraine with shipments of weapons if you are not going to guarantee them freedom into the future? Lets say that Ukraine successfully wins back their independence - to leftists who want to support Ukraine, what do you do in 5 years when Russia invades again? At some point if you support Ukraine you have to cross that bridge- we either give Ukraine access to nuclear weapons, or have them join NATO - 2 red lines that Putin has declared will cause escalation. Then again, he has made a lot of red lines, and those didn't escalate. 

While individual voters might support this objective, American politicians in general have now had years to invite Ukraine into NATO, and Biden didn't, nor did Trump. What this should tell you as a citizen/voter is that no matter the lip service, no American leader is actually willing to do so. That's why Democrats/Biden's sealioning on this issue always rang as disingenious - because if there was ever a time to give Ukraine NATO protection, it would have been at the outset of the war. 

To answer this question accurately, I just think we'd need access to a lot more classified data, like history of Russia's red lines, nuclear capabilities, etc. 

One positive that I do think came out of all this is that it scared the shit out of Europeans, who are now clamoring for NATO defense spending - funny how Trump proposed this years ago and was criticized by Democrats for it- turns out that when you're international organization is toothless and over-reliant on a country across the sea, your adversaries see it for what it is...

Browler_321

Is there a scenario where I would support Ukraine joining NATO or EU? Yes Only if Russia joins with them.

DavidSmith91007

Nope. And  america needs to leave nato. We need to rebuild relationships and do what's best for America. Just like India does.

Please remember to hide subreddit names or reddit usernames (Rule 1), otherwise the post will be removed promptly. 

This is an anti-capitalist, left-libertarian subreddit that criticises tankies from a socialist perspective. We are pro-communist. Defence of capitalism or any other right-wing beliefs, countries or people is not tolerated here. This includes, for example: Biden and the US, Israel, and the Nordic countries/model, 

Harassment of other users or subreddits is strictly forbidden.

Enjoy talking to fellow leftists? [Then join our discord server!](https://discord.gg/KzZGaJRC6y)


*I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/tankiejerk) if you have any questions or concerns.*

Why do we need to justify our leftism to tankies?

LuckieDuckid

At this point, the people of Ukraine are fighting two governments: one that wants to conquer and forcefully assimilate them (as it did to Mordvins, Tatars, Buryats, Yakuts, and dozens of other nationalities) so that it can use Ukrainians in 'meat waves' to conquer other countries. The other is their own government, which consists of bureaucrats who want to steal as much money as they can, knowing full well that they, together with their families, would simply leave the country the moment the frontline starts collapsing. Meanwhile, every day, hundreds of regular working people are giving their health and lives fighting Russian imperialism.

_valpi

is it supporting nato to say that ukraine should be able to join in without russia invading it? I do think with the new law, zelensky shot himself in the foot by signing it, the people of ukraine are right to protest over it.

Thebunkerparodie

This seems like something that should be pinned.  No need to constantly repost when it's already been laid out so succinctly.

sicKlown

Hey consensus who’s going to fight to prevent Russia from colonizing Ukraine than?

JustCommand9611

What genocidal imperialism did the EU and NATO commit? I’m curious, because usually it’s Serbians saying that about the intervention to protect Albanians from genocide.

Did the EU/NATO support genocidal puppet dictators in Africa?

Karma-is-here

We do not support triple hammer &amp; fucking sickle, a symbol of murderous dictatorships, banned in plenty countries. Along with a fucking nazi swastika.

promieniowanie

well said. too bad they'll probably just accuse you of being a "radical centrist" or supporting "horseshoe theory" or whatever because of that "two sides of the same coin" line. all imperialism is evil, be it red white and blue or red and gold.

AnimetheTsundereCat

thank you for pinning my post, i wasn't expecting it.

femmegreen_anarchist

On a sorta-related note, what were your thoughts on Brexit?

zephiiii

What? No! Comrade Zelenskyy needs our Critical Support™ now more than ever! Ignore his real policies, let’s turn him into a figurehead of whatever ideology we subscribe to!

Wk1360

With Russia and China on one side of the coin, and NATO and the EU on the other side of it, the answer is to toss the coin into a place where it doesn't land of ***ANY*** of that shit in the first place, because either way, you're gambling with people's lives.

The-Greythean-Void

Refreshing to see this when I was downvoted here a few weeks ago for saying we shouldn't support the far-right Ukrainian state.


The libs haven't been completely scrubbed off this sub yet, it turns out.

sagenter

nato more like the north american terrorist organization, bOAK is better anyways 

Maztr_on

The list can be found on www russiagoboom com (joking)

mawkishdave

Thank you Netherlands!  Oranje helping 🇺🇦slap around the orcs.

AmbassadorETOH

Visible-Bug9405

Please use [Good Faith](https://www.reddit.com/r/AskConservatives/comments/107i33m/announcement_rule_7_good_faith_is_now_in_effect) and the [Principle of Charity](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Principle_of_charity) when commenting. We are currently under an indefinite moratorium on gender issues, and anti-semitism and calls for violence will not be tolerated, especially when [discussing the Israeli-Palestinian conflict](https://www.reddit.com/r/AskConservatives/comments/17ygktl/antisemitism_askconservative_and_you/).


*I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/AskConservatives) if you have any questions or concerns.*

I support Ukraine joining NATO once this current iteration of the war is over. NATO is a purely defensive alliance. Its members, nor a hypothetical Ukraine, have zero desire to invade Russia or their allies. Russia is only provoked by NATO if you consider limiting their options for territorial conquest an act of aggression.

Skalforus

They should have been in NATO years ago. And Russia, as a singular political entity, should cease. Thankfully, that will inevitably happen. I give it 10-20 years. Sooner if we keep sanctions high.

davidml1023

No, I would not support Ukraine joining NATO, and if they did I would suggest the US pull out. This comes down to the reasons Kissinger gave against spreading NATO further east, and a more mature understanding than I had when I was younger on nuclear war and clausewitz. I believe Ukrainian NATO membership exponentially raises the possibility of a nuclear exchange.

MadGobot

Ukraine should have been in NATO yesterday. This war could have been avoided, all of the bloodshed and destruction could have been avoided, if Ukraine was in NATO. And if you don't believe me, look to the Baltic states of Estonia, Latvia, and Lithuania. They were also part of the Soviet Union and are much smaller than Ukraine. Yet Putin has allowed them to be free, why? 

NATO kept the peace on the European continent for 70-some years. A continent that destroyed itself twice in the last century. That is not an accident. Yet today, NATO is smeared as a threat to world peace, effectively excusing the Putin regime in the Kremlin who has launched multiple wars during his reign and redrawn borders of Europe with force.

jbelany6

If Ukraine was in a different location. It's a huge benefit for us for Ukraine to be a buffer between our allies and Russia

Laniekea

The only way I'd support it is if Ukraine's addition to NATO enhanced the security of other countries in the alliance...  how that could ever happen? IDK, practically inconceivable.

e_big_s

I'm open for any country to join NATO, as long as they pass a cost/benefit analysis and a vote from membering countries 

I would support Ukraine joining NATO now - it’s the quickest way to end the war and might restore Ukraine’s territorial integrity.  People complaining that this would cause NATO to enter the war don’t understand incentives - the wests refusal to commit has empowered Putin; inviting Ukraine to join NATO is a power move that forces Putin to stop.

hackenstuffen

Yes, if Russia came out and declared that they wouldn't attack Ukraine if they joined NATO. Not that Ukraine by itself brings a lot of positive things to the alliance. As it's a very corrupt and mismanaged country, I don't see that being fixed regardless of the outcome of the war. 

Before someone posts something to the effect of "Why should Russia get to decide Ukraine's path". My simple response would be that they have the means to physically stop them from doing so by use of force. I am not supporting/condoning it being used this way. Only that it is a thing we must all respect, and if Ukraine doesn't want that to be the case, they need to make themselves stronger so they can stop it.

Toddl18

Sure, once russia dissolves completely and dismantals the nuclear arsenal stored there.

Shop-S-Marts

I can't think of any. And why not? Because I don't want to get into a shooting war with russia.

Layer7Admin

Sure, if the US is no longer a member, and maintains no military alliances that a war with nato would obligate our involvement.

WinDoeLickr

Once there is an agreed ceasefire, Ukraine simply has the strongest army currently in Europe on many parameters (N.B. *not* air force). They also have one of the the largest military production capacities of any country in the world. The reason that China wants Russia to keep fighting and so keep Ukraine out of NATO is because they fear that capacity being used against them when they attack the US in the Pacific. 

The only way to 100% ensure that the Ukrainian arms capacity is used for and not against NATO and specifically for the US and not against the US during the US-China conflict in the Pacific is to have Ukraine properly in NATO

I specifically do not, however, believe in Ukraine joining until Russia is forced to surrender. It's critical for NATO's credibility and encouraging new members to commit that countries get forced to make a choice before they attack and not after.

In the Menatime, it should be the responsibility of the countries that forced Ukraine to disarm, which is to say Germany, France and to some extent the UK, but most especially the USA to ensure that Ukraine has the weapons that they need to win.

nar_tapio_00

I can't think of any geopolitical benefit to them joining.

soulwind42

Well right now they legally can’t join NATO as countries can’t join while actively engaged in a war. And I don’t see Putin giving up anytime soon so kinda moot.

Strict_Gas_1141

I'm somewhat inclined to want to have space between NATO and NATO's probable adversaries. 


That said, if Ukraine can successfully completely secure its borders and deal with internal issues, then I would not be strongly opposed to them joining. This would only ever be with the consent of the current members of NATO. 

If Russia can join NATO and does actually join NATO, I would support Ukraine joining NATO as well.

metoo77432

The core question about NATO membership is: "Are 3/4th of Americans willing to send their sons and daughters to die to liberate Kyiv?". 

We're willing to do that for London and Paris. I *think* we're willing to do that for Stockholm and Warsaw. And maybe we can get to 50%+1 support of going to war to liberate Vilnius. But Kyiv? That, under the present political climate, might be just too far. And if it is, we run the risk of Russia calling the bluff and we risk either T-90Ms rushing toward Berlin or getting drawn into a shooting war with Russia.

username_6916

Right now it’s a fast track to dragging NATO into a full-scale war, which makes it a hard no.

throwawayy999123

I don't support NATO existing with the US in it.

TopRedacted

No. It’s been made clear that this would ignite another world war. Besides, they are completely corrupt.

worldisbraindead

I don’t want to see a nuclear war with Russia in my lifetime so no.

Never, because they are an eastern slavic orthodox nation and a natural part of the Russian sphere we have nothing to gain from disputing.

Your_liege_lord

Not one I can think of. The whole reason for the current war is that Ukraine wants to join NATO and Putin sees this as a huge threat. He does not want NATO on his border. Period. He's paranoid and likely insane, but we knew that. He always has been. Admitting Ukraine would be, to him, a declaration of not just war, but WWIII. If you truly want war on a global scale, this is the fast track to that. If that happens, what are the odds that China, Iran and/or North Korea join together for a common goal? 100%. Do I agree with Putin? Of course not, but that doesn't change anything. It is what it is, and we can't take that on. We're too divided as a nation and the stakes are too high. We will ensure our own destruction. No thanks, hard pass.

SmokingUmbrellas

Hell no. I actually really wish withdrew from NATO. It’s still possible to have an economic and military relationship with the Eu and other NATO counties without being a NATO member (see: our relationships with Japan and South Korea),

Deep-Security-7359

You’re gonna have to make Ukraine a neutral nation. I think the minerals deal could aid in this because now the US has real interest in Ukraine but NATO would be red line and I don’t think it would help make this conflict any more closer to a peace. I hate Putin and I support sanctioning and tariffing these dictators but not at the cost of sacrificing other nations troops. The only best thing I could support is doing basically was the CRINK alliance is doing and arming Ukraine. Until the EU stops buying Russian gas Idc what they say about the US bearing the brunt of this conflict. I don’t see any advantage of having another NATO country on Russia’s border. Finland already joined.

 they'll have to give up on fully retaking their pre-2014 borders - the juice simply isn't worth the squeeze. Medvedhevs "Buffer Zone" map is also stupid, but retaking Crimea, if that's even desired (we have the ethical question of all of the Russianos who moved there post-2014 - I assume we're less deportation-happy than Stalin was with Pomerania and Silesia, but we have to deal with having so many Russianos somehow) isn't possible without direct offensive involvement, which we don't have the appetite for (and the US wouldn't be too helpful, since our ships can't enter the Black Sea due to being too big, so really Europe would be fighting while we distract them and hunt down their submarines)

Lamballama

There would have to be no war in Ukraine, no risk of war coming to Ukraine, and their long standing issues such a government corruption (which long predates the war) would need to have been dealt with.

GreatSoulLord

ikonoqlast

I can't see one. Letting them in assures world war 3. Even if it came with a peace deal, Ukraine would massively benefit without all the added liability the other nations would endure.

randomrandom1922

The Cold War has been over for decades, so I don't see any advantage in joining NATO. It could open you up to being arm-twisted by other member nations into doing something you don't want to do.

comfortable711

TimeToSellNVDA

What I would like to see articulated are the specific benefits to the US of Ukraine joining NATO.

Inumnient

As it is now, and as it has been for quite some time, no.

First off, they're in the middle of a war.  That actually precludes membership.  Second, they didn't have control of their borders, even before this all started.  That's another official criteria.

Then there's the incompatibility with the values of other NATO countries.  Their human rights record is terrible.  Amnesty International has been yelling about the abuses of their police forces for decades.  They're an international hub for drug and human trafficking.  Then there's the mistreatment of Russian-speaking groups in the eastern provinces.

Both the Clinton and Obama administrations saw the value in having Ukraine in NATO, and both administrations pressured them to make the necessary reforms to be eligible.  Every time, Ukraine stalled and made excuses.

So, when this war is over and they get their act together...maybe?  But they'll bear watching.

LonelyMachines

They reap all the benefits of joining NATO, dragging us closer to a direct confrontation with Russia- without contributing anything meaningful. What do we gain from their membership? 





Nothing.

Vindictives9688

I would support it if Ukraine became the 53rd state

Yes, if they give up all their land to Russia they can join.

FeedySneed

Not currently and here are the reasons:  
  
Their troops cannot follow orders from their own president and threaten him.   
[https://www.kyivpost.com/post/6652](https://www.kyivpost.com/post/6652)  
  
They commit war crimes while complaining about Russian War crimes, they have to be better than their enemy, not the same.

They don't have a ban on Nazis Tattoos in their military and have nazi Marches in to commemorate the Galicia SS division and the people love them for it.  
  
Their declaration of state sovereignty specified their intent to remain permanently neutral and not join any military blocs.

Additionally the Treaty of Friendship between them and Russia in 1997 specified that they would not allow other nations to to use their territory at the detriment of security of the other territory.

There is no scenario where I support any country joining NATO or Ukraine simply existing. (I am from Ukraine in case anyone is wondering.)

ShennongjiaPolarBear

NATO countries need to take this chance a buy like 3 years worth of defensive and offensive supplies for Ukraine before Trump changes his mind again.

wizgset27

In other words EU countries are supporting Ukraine and the US is looking on and profiting.

_teslaTrooper

So why not deal with Ukraine directly?

This is probably his way of saying "See? I'm helping!", while not really doing *anything*.

Trump's just doing what he always does, projecting weakness and incompetence.

2FalseSteps

A drop in the ocean and no direct support. However he has got it in the headlines with mainstream media. Tick... See I'm helping.

Iamoggierock


Привіт u/southernemper0r ! During wartime, this community is focused on vital and high-effort content. Please ensure your post follows [r/Ukraine Rules](https://www.reddit.com/r/ukraine/about/rules).

**Want to support Ukraine?**  [**Vetted Charities List**](https://www.reddit.com/r/ukraine/wiki/charities) | [Our Vetting Process](https://www.reddit.com/r/ukraine/wiki/charities-vetting)

**Daily series on Ukraine's history &amp; culture:**  [Sunrise Posts Organized By Category](https://www.reddit.com/r/ukraine/wiki/sunriseposts/)

**To learn about how you can support Ukraine politically, visit r/ActionForUkraine**

*I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/ukraine) if you have any questions or concerns.*

YesIam18plus

The Netherlands leads NATO in funding military equipment for Ukraine, marking a significant commitment to support the nation's defense against Russian aggression.

NATO Support for Ukraine

Why This Matters

Public Sentiment Summary

Highlighted Comments

Parties Involved

What the people want