The public sentiment regarding US-India defense relations is mixed, characterized by skepticism towards US reliability, particularly under Trump's leadership, and cautious optimism about the potential for collaboration against common threats, especially from China. Many express support for Modi's diplomatic efforts while urging caution against over-dependence on the US.

United States

India

DopeAFjknotreally

There’s a lot of people overly focused on semantics in this thread about “having” India. The main point is that the Modi government was the most pro-US government India has had in recent times, and after the split from Pakistan following the whole Osama bin Laden episode, the Obama administration was inching toward a major diplomatic and defence partnership shift to India, and Indian public opinion had done a full 180 from the Cold War days when America was considered a hostile power. Trump’s first term actually capitalized on this public opinion shift quite well and it created a great atmosphere for the governments to work together and look good domestically doing it. However, this cooperation stalled under Biden and has been almost completely thrown into chaos in Trump’s second term where he’s suddenly decided he would rather treat with the Pakistanis in exchange for silly little personal favours like Nobel prizes. This could be another historic blunder that will keep the two democracies from deepening ties for another 40 years. Trump may become as reviled among Indians as Nixon and Kissinger.

TorontoGiraffe

I blog on Indian national security. I had so far given the benefit of doubt to Trump, assuming that he must have basic competence to be President and the US system won't allow a fool to be elected. I think I was mistaken. He's not just incompetent, he's deranged and those around him won't tell him so

[1.](http://1.You) One does not do diplomacy on social media. Don't publish something that the other side has not agreed to. I haven't seen an approved text of ANY of the agreements that various countries are supposed to have agreed -except a foundation agreement with UK.

2, The US does not have an Ambassador to India - though we are the two biggest democracies (in population, size of economy in PPP and military power). There is a one year wait for a visa interview, so there is no attempt to even get the basics of a relationship right.

3. Trump has zero understanding of our red lines and has no credibility on a shared concern like fighting terror - he entertains Pakistan, despite its state sponsored terror  
and makes ludicrous claims of his mediating a ceasefire. He says his main adversary is China, but equates his strongest potential ally (India) against China, with China The only reason any head of state would still have a serious discussion with him, is because he heads the US.

4. He also lies to the extent that nothing he says can be taken seriously. His latest tweet about Pakistan's oil reserves, is probably news to Pakistan.   
We are not a \`tariff king'. Our average tariff for US items is much less than Trump's 25% (plus an unspecified penalty) and in line with our WTO commitment.   
  
We have an adversarial relationship with China, but they export $ 120 billion to us, three times more than the US, with higher tariff's than we have with the US.   
Given that we are the 3rd largest economy (in PP terms), the fastest growing in the G20 and the top 10 trading partner of all major economies, its inappropriate to publicly call   
us a dead economy. 

Trying to tariff a country because they are prosecuting your friend (Brazil), or buying oil from Russia, are schoolyard bully tactics.

Dean_46

How did the U.S. “have” India, when India was literally the leader of the non-aligned movement?

PollutionFinancial71

I do not think we ever “had India”. We are closer with Pakistan than India

perry147

Thats alright

It was clearly a calculated decision made pragmatically by the president of the USA, Donald Trump

To erase 20 years of diplomatic progress over the course of 2 months must be worth it in that case. 

Im sure the money the Trump family will mint via the Pakistani crypto council will be far more than the money America could make via trade with India

Far_Piglet_9596

SS:

In 2019, U.S. President Donald Trump stood alongside Indian Prime Minister Narendra Modi at the “Howdy Modi” rally in Houston. The atmosphere was electric. Indian Americans cheered, and New Delhi appeared fully invested in the Trump presidency. Trump’s popularity in India eclipsed that of his successor Joe Biden and even Biden’s vice president, Kamala Harris, who is herself of Indian ancestry. Trump’s re-election in 2024 thus seemed like the beginning of a new, stronger chapter in India-U.S. relations.

That chapter is now closing fast. India is beginning to question the value of its strategic alignment with Washington. And the United States is handing it every reason to do so.

Normal_Imagination54

Uppermiddle class Indians and Americans are more closely aligned in thinking than the US is to Europe. While there are large cultural differences and an enormous under class in India, US and India relations are not bad. It will be a real rivalry going forward, but not hostile.

Gajanvihari

When they had India? 
At best they will get a France out of India by the look of it they will get a Brazil

spikeineyes

India has always been as neutral as they can be, we never had them to lose them

awake283

Utterly stupid move by Trump, India is a rising economic and military power and could have been one of the most important US allies in the 21st century. 

Everything this guy does only weakens us. Russia and China smile every day this clown remains in office.

ChrisF1987

Sana Hashmi the author of the article seems to take idea that India was coming in swinging to Usa and it would have helped to establish a permanent ally or whatever the author is trying to communicate in her ideas. India was never a Usa ally, it always took to look at advantages it can get from Usa and China.
 Trump does not matter much since the war in Ukraine is going out and India by buying Russian oil is certainly proving her autonomy does not come at any cost. 
This is just a more pragmatic shift and no way Usa wants another 1.5 billion country to rise and challenge it's and China's hegemony.

Weak_Adhesiveness621

If the US imposes sanctions on Russia, it would actually target India.

One-Strength-1978

I think people are a bit naive about the ceiling for this relationship.

There’s no real reason for the US and India to be allies or trust each other right now. There are way too many diverging interests

lostinspacs

LongShow5279

I think the United States has realized that India cannot be  a counterweight to China, much as they wish it. Here's the legendary and late Charlie Munger articulating it in a forthright manner. [https://www.reddit.com/r/IndiaSpeaks/comments/186j3qt/charlie\_munger\_on\_india\_thoughts/](https://www.reddit.com/r/IndiaSpeaks/comments/186j3qt/charlie_munger_on_india_thoughts/)

ImprovementGreat7654

Wasn’t India always considered close to the Russians for the longest time so much so that the US sided with Pakistan during the 1971 war. 

It was only after the Kargil War in 1999 when the terrorists were found to be Pakistani army regulars that the US toughened its stance on Pakistan and moved closer to India - coinciding later with the large number of techies from India. 

The US has brought India into the Quad security dialogue, working on U2I2, and other cooperative efforts (defense, technology etc) but India has always avoided taking sides so far (trying to maintain its friendship with the Russians and The US). The US saw India as a natural ally against China that more tech manufacturing is slowly moving to India. 

But to say US ever “had India” is a exaggeration

hinterstoisser

The US foreign policy is causing it to get isolated from the classic allies. This is bad news in a timeframe it is losing the competition with China fast, politically, militarily and economically. The west will pay a huge price for that, if it will not result in a global conflict we cannot win.

Andries_1960

I would write the opposite headline. The US tried fairly hard to court India during both the Trump I and Biden admin, but at the end of the day India didn't really want that kind of partnership and Washington has largely lost interest in pursuing it even before Trump II.

somethingicanspell

outtayoleeg

Because when the average American goes grocery shopping almost everything they buy is processed and packaged and overloaded with sugar. It’s not because they’re going to all-you-can-eat cake eating events every day.

This is probably a once a year event. Let people stuff themselves with cake every once in a while if they want to

Doctor__Hammer

The US never ‘had’ India. India always picks itself and it will not fight China together with the US. It will stay out of that fight and it will try to profit from it by gaining favors from both sides.

India will also not fight alongside China or Russia, so when they so clearly go for their own interests, one can ask how useful they are for anyone. Trump is right to turn the screws on India.

What does India even have to offer to the US besides (massively overrated) cheap IT services which stands to be easily automated away using AI?

simulacrum79

I’m all for criticizing Trump, but India never really committed to being an ally to the US/West. 

Sure, the US blew it with India in the 50s, but I think in the recent decades India more than had a chance to change the relationship. 

Now? 

India relies on Russian weaponry and Russia has no capacity to supply India in the foreseeable future, so good luck with that. 

India’s 2 main existential threats are Pakistan (with whom the US has apparently decided to reengage) and China… China who is the senior partner in Sino-Russo “friendship”. Pakistan is also quite well aligned with China. 

In other words, India needs the US much much more than the US needs whatever India has been offering up until now.

Deucalion667

Honestly if India still thinks protecting their small plot farmers is more important than developing trade they probably aren't going to be that important in China / US confrontation timelines.


Until agriculture stops absorbing such vast amounts of labor they won't develop.

Forsaken-Bobcat-491

LoyalKopite

If teja were built you would not have bought Rafale.

drgijoe

Tejas is 50-60% by getting parts from others

Until kaveri is not finished jet engines india can never make jets

Heck indias insas rifle has struggled in siachen and other places 

They cant even make a gun

India need to make these 

India needs to push for jet engine build up through private company 

The two things most critical are engines and guns

I think their radars and other things that were used in operation sindoor were great 

Hopefully modi pushes for jet engine which i cant figure out why he is not doing unless he is loving the kickbacks to buy the foreign stuff

India has come long way but they need to go long way still especially indias brahmos has been huge success

[deleted]

https://preview.redd.it/9ty2cvzbzr8f1.jpeg?width=680&amp;format=pjpg&amp;auto=webp&amp;s=57a53c52a374575eccb354e1305d0fc4282b0949

D_P_R_8055

Can you make a startup in india about weopans and sell to us china and Russia

shadow_adi76

Indian can’t beat USA even in next 100 years

Certain_Bridge9574

"Built our own fighter jet (Tejas), ".. Engines are from GE (US company)

" rocket artillery (Pinaka)".. majority of avionics is from France and the truck is Czech 

"SAMs (Akash)".. actuators are from Russia, Gyros are French.

When it comes to military might, we are decades if not centuries away from US..

jhakaas_wala_pondy

Stop this man. India is a very corrupt country from the top to the bottom. No corruption ridden country can achieve technological progress in real terms . With the current system of governance,we are going stay as We are for foreseeable future too. 


Whatever "spectacular" progress you hear in the media are highly exaggerated news to keep the populace happy.

SuspiciousTry8500

SageSharma

Well, if those startups are in Karnataka, if don't care if they build anything as long as they have Kannada signboard and everyone there speaks Kannada

Great-Resolve-3195

LeatherRepulsive438

The smart thing was to maintain diplomatic relations of value with our neighbours and form alliances with superpowers based on shared values.

There is no realistic way we can ramp up defense tech to levels that are required indigenously overnight. 

Instead we have pissed off our neighbours and China has capitalized on that fact. We have also fired shots of Vishwaguru without having any bullets in the barrel.

Dear-Chemical-1106

The point was till 2020 defence.Thats why US did not have things you mentioned was a taboo in Silicon Valley(they had but not much) .It was broken by Anduril.Anduril’s huge success will make more talent move towards defence startups

Mommy_Girija

Can't we don't have expertise in electronics , mechanical engineering ( engines) we don't have expertise in aerospace engineering either we don't have expertise in colling technology, chemical engineering , metallurgy, material science, we don't have software engineers who have software for defense systems we don't even have access to simulators , money , raw materials mainly rare earth but also basic stuff like plastics and high end steel nothing is available in India how on earth will a startup even think of working on it and tbh even if everything were available the number of idiot IAS and ilk one has to deal with makes the enterprise impossible.

Alone_Ad6784

The ola of unmanned tanks— lost me here. Next what Byjus of combat training? /s

What we fundamentally need are strong research institutions where people are well-compensated for pursuing foundational research like in materials science and engineering, for instance.

We can’t expect world class research when we offer peanuts in return.

Just compare the salaries of physics graduates or civil/mechanical engineers in India to what software developers earn it highlights the skewed priorities clearly.

no1bullshitguy

We already:fght in -50°C at Siachen (something no US soldier does):-- **not relevant to technical advancements**

Have BrahMos — the fastest cruise missile in the world -- **not alone but jointly with Russia. russians provided the blueprints**

Built our own fighter jet (Tejas), rocket artillery (Pinaka), and SAMs (Akash) tested ASAT weapons and planned hypersonic missiles -- **we dont have engines for tejas, cant even field necessary sqaudrons for ourselves, about 50% of the components are imported. if missiles could win all the wars, russia and iran wouldnt be having that hard of a time right now**

But here’s what will really tip the balance:We need a startup revolution in defence. Not just DRDO or HAL. We need 100s of private companies building: -- **this will never happen. as a software engineer living in europe, i'd rather develop for europe than india. better legal structure, no bribery to get paperwork in order, no politicians running around to let you let them cut the ribbon so they can get some pictures. no phone call saying dekh lijiye merer bhatije k liye koi jagah ho to, cuz if you dont, you know you will pay for it. its our culture. of freeloaders and whiners.**

AI-powered drones -- **LOL**

Battlefield robotics --**LMAO**

Cyber weapons --**we call them regular indians scamming people around the globe. they are our cyber weapons**

Smart helmets, AR glasses -- **can probably copy some off the shelves chinese ones and mass produce those.**

Indigenous chips and critical tech --**thats not gonna happen atleast for the next 40 years. critical tech requires critical infrastructure. vishwagurus cant comprehend that unfortunately.**

Development doesnt come from idea. it doesnt come from the policymakers. it comes from the culture. what you are asking for is what only 10-15% of the nation wants to see. what we have is what the other 85% want. we are a chappri country, with a chappri culture, with chappri parliament and chhapri ideology. dont worry we are number 1 atleast in some aspects. crimes against minors, women and animals, unhygienic living spaces, lack of medical infra, no electricity, no running water, or food to an extremely large percent of population. so dont worry we will be the number 1 gutter the world has ever seen and koi nhi rok skta.

Icy_Ad3564

Never gonna happen.

And wtf is this stupid gpt post of zerodha of this ola of that lol

tera_chachu

Nope. 

  
I don't think you understand or comprehend how much ahead USA is in technology in defense sector compared to the rest of the world. This is the country that had SR-71 and B2 bomber 40 years ago.

Big_Department_9221

No . Definitely not in next 100 years . 

it is not only about manufacturing arms you also need solid defence partnerships with other countries . 

If you see USA has army bases around the world . They have the capability to strike any country within hours .

Relative_Objective42

Let's be real - India is not going to go anywhere fast because of corruption and who you need to know to succeed as well as what caste/religion you're from. 

Once India has a unique identity that people can come together over rather than fight each other for scraps - then it can take that giant leap forward.

No_Independent8195

vishnu_021

Imaginary_Ambition78

You need following:

1. Access to critical raw materials, and its processing tech.
2. A robust supply chain network.
3. Underlying building block of critical tech.
4. Most importantly a large pool of highly skilled, knowledged &amp; motivated and fairly compensated talent.

The item 4 is your main challenges. Indian institutions does not churn enough skilled people which helps you to achieve all the above. The remaining talent is not paid fairly and handsomely to stay motivated over long period of time. You solve the problem 4, and those people will solve other three.

I know an Individual who left for USA after 3 years in Indian Defense firm and switched fields to non-defense firms. In his words, he easily earns enough to afford Starbucks and Dunking Donuts coffee each day after work, so he does not worry about impact of buying same coffee in India at a price that it put depletes his budget. He can enjoy driving Camry in Texas instead of driving Alto and stuck in Jayanagar traffic, and spend little due to high purchasing power of US$.

By the way I used to live in Boston for 6 years, where winter temperatures are often between -15 and -25 in long winters. US has Alaska, Rocky mountain region, Northwestern Mid-West region where temperatures are low and Alaska has both low temperature and high altitudes. It is easy even for most of us to actually get acclimatized to cold dry weather and high altitude lack of oxygen. Most importantly USA has right to bear arms with varying degrees of low to moderate gun controls (or lack thereof) which varies state by state.  Americans are highly motivated, spirited and trained without constraints we have at home.   
  
Note: If I remember correctly India had to buy emergency high altitude equipment and cold weather gear from USA after Galwan for large deployment. India still buys some high altitude equipment for Siachen deployments. This problem can be solved, if we partner with US/Switzerland/Europe to open another line of production here.

My point is there is no reason for India to beat USA in defense industry. Both have different set of security challenges, doctrines and military postures. One is a military, tech and trade(?) hegemon and other is aspiring global power with unresolved regional challenges. I may be biased here for my love of US as a country, its amazing people and there temperament due to my education and early career there, but I am also proud Indian making my humble contribution to ensure that I and my fellow Indian brethren enjoys decent living standard and life.

If India wants big chunk of that defense exports cake, it needs to solve problem #4 within a single decade instead of 3 decades. If #4 is resolved, other three are easy pickings.

Klutzy_Morning_4277

Nope.
With the deplorable state of our education, we absolutely cannot. Add to it, the curse of reservations. We would simply not have the bright minds needed for this.

And the difficulties of doing business in India are simply prohibitive. A simple GST registration process requires bribes. Less than 5% of our startups actually become profitable with actual operational profits. 

80 crore people are dependent on freebies in one form or another. They are not a human resource but a liability. That's more than twice the population of USA. 

And lastly coming to defence itself, our procurement is a joke. After all the hype and hoopla, around we purchased just 2 squadrons of Rafales. (And our squadrons have 18 aircrafts, not 21.) And our government expects technology transfer. Such delusion. And this too was covered on News Channels like a ball-by-ball update of a live cricket match. For comparison, the largest Airforce in the world is US Air Force with 5040 aircrafts. The second largest Airforce in the world is US Navy with 3700 aircrafts. As much as Defence needs technology, defence needs money. Hard money. Because Quantity has a quality of its own. 

What was your question again?

Multi_Badger

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lol america khud alliances se bhaag raha hai aur tu keh rha ki america ke saath alliance krna chahiye

Nice_Voice_9234

[India–Soviet Union relations - Wikipedia](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/India%E2%80%93Soviet_Union_relations)

  
Soviet supported India even though India chose to remain officially Non Aligned in the Cold War era. The US cold-shouldered India for all of the 20th Century. It pumped money into Pakistan to neutralise the Soviets in the 80s.

  
So, considering Russia is our only military superpower ally, we will not go against them - and as long as that is the case, the US will remain cordial without being an ally.

  
Now, seeing how economically and technologically backward Russia has become compared to US and China - we need to step up our game and forge ahead. Sadly, we seem to be happy patting ourselves for the achievements of our ancestors instead of doubling down on logic, rationale, science and technology.

nex815

You need think more deeply.           
It would have been way easier for us if we had aligned with US. As it is it is a powerful country and we have to sometimes accommodate their demands. Now imagine we are fully aligned with them? Are you okay to send our forces to fight their wars? Not attacking Pakistan because we are dependent on their weapons?

goshdagny

You should read about the Cold War, how proxy wars happened and India being Socialist, which led to a natural alliance with communist Russia rather than capitalist US, which itself targeted an alliance with Pakistan as a means to keep India in check.

Coming to the present, US is decreasing it's foreign spend. This is probably the worst time to ally with US. Look at what's happening to Ukraine, which dismantled their nukes at the behest of US.

findMyNudesSomewhere

&gt; India need to align with west.

"West" is built on the principle of "white race". They aren't gonna let India in, even if India wanted in on that club. Can you think of a single non-white majority country that is considered to be "west", except for Japan?

No matter how much we try to align ourselves with the "west", they aren't gonna help us, if push comes to shove.

US especially is a back-stabber of the highest sort. India can allow US to open up military bases in India but US will still be helping Pakistan economically.

Ek_Chutki_Sindoor

align with the west but ask the real questions first

why would west accept us into their security umbrella? what real advantages will be there for the west?

what real advantages are there for india?

The way Trump behaved with Ukraine is clearest sign dont align with them

ElectronicHoneydew86

I think india should be an ally of Europe rather than America, america is unstable as hell because of trump now .. our allied should be EU and UK

Working-Cry-6457

The relations ur speaking about, US hated India from the beginning they have that mentality of "bow down to us u british colonized slaves, how did you achieve growth and development by urself" typical Racist mentality. So speaking of relation, they will betray us within a second as they did to Ukraine once they taste huge trades and benifits with China.

The "West" (also known as the US) abandoned the EU. 

EU!

If Europeans can be abandoned, we browns can be kicked away.

Fuck_Off_Minny

&gt;There was opportunity to acquire f35s. Which US was ready to give.

When did the US offer India F35?

&gt;India need to align with west. 

a) How are you sure that the change in alignment will not end up brining home the war we are trying to avoid? Unlike the US, USSR strategic competition, we share a direct border with China.

b) How do we make sure we are not picking the wrong side this time as well, in the US vs China strategic competition?

PersonNPlusOne

Do you even know what it takes to maintain an F35 - it's the most expensive piece of fighter aircraft that's out there in the market. Multiple countries have evaluated and even burnt their hands acquiring it.
Also America vs France - they are more likely to use it as a weapon against that by not supporting spares, supplies and repairs

Ill_Client_9364

Nope America is one of the biggest terrorists country in the world. Kisi ka saga nahi hai

Would be interesting if india invites Russia for 5th gen Amca program as a partner 

WinterPresentation4

SS: New Delhi/Moscow: India and Russia on Tuesday reaffirmed their long-standing commitment to deepen bilateral defence cooperation, sending a clear message of strategic alignment even as geopolitical tensions and Western pressure mount over India's continued oil trade with Moscow.

The renewed push came during a high-level meeting between Indian Ambassador to Russia, Vinay Kumar, and Russian Deputy Defence Minister Colonel-General Alexander Fomin, who oversees international military partnerships.

The meeting comes at a critical juncture, as US President Donald Trump has recently warned of “harsh sanctions” against India for continuing to import discounted Russian crude — a move that Washington says undermines its efforts to isolate Moscow economically. However, both New Delhi and Moscow appear unshaken in their resolve.

Mundane-Laugh8562

Well, that's not very surprising. in 4 years, Trump will be either gone, or the US well on its way to geoplitical irrelevance.

But don't read too much into this. They are just talking. The first step in such talks is always to reaffirm that they want to talk, that everything is peachy and they love each other. Whether anything comes out of this depends on what the individual countries want to get and want to give. Depending on that, this might be anything between just a "we like each other but we couldn't agree to any collaboration" and a "we are merging our armies". With the former being much more likely than the latter.

NoSuchKotH

It was always burning. No need to reignite.

oldschoolguy77



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GeoIndModBot

u/telephonecompany views? And this book is highly recommended. Do check it out.

AIM-120-AMRAAM

 Apart from the United States' primary motive for aiding India in 1962, to stop the spread of communism and maintain a balance of power in Asia and NAM. 

Haven't read this book, what does the author suggest about the possible reason....

BE_the_competition

No wonder Kenneth Galbraith was awarded the Padma Vibhushan. Possibly in the future should be given Bharat Ratna. It goes to show much the relationship can work if the traditional State Department influenced figures are not in the picture. 

Kennedy's death was more than tragic for India. Because an aggressive Johnson ended up burning all the bridges that Kennedy administration went of their way to create with India.

Choice_Ad2121

This was very interesting. I'm grateful to you, dear OP for showing me a new part of our country's diplomatic history. While we regrettably lost the 1962 war, I always wondered why the Chinese didn't advance further. 
I'll check out the book.

Quantum_feenix

Good stuff. We need more of this to drown out the low quality "1971 Murica bad, Russia good" mentality a lot of Indians have and has plagued discussion on Indian geopolitics and its mentality.

Nomustang

Didn't know US was trying allign with India but Nehru &amp; Menon messed up this badly. 

Great post brother.🙌🏻

Hazy1302

A US delegation is negotiating the sale of six P-8I maritime patrol aircraft to enhance India's military capabilities amid discussions on strengthening defense cooperation.

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