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More to your point: 

https://preview.redd.it/9u75ku4wxaof1.png?width=518&amp;format=png&amp;auto=webp&amp;s=0ca4086f944ce66ec1bae26c348ab69fe96f5ff7

here2learn_me

That’s the old USDOT Volpe Center (was built for NASA originally but used by DOT since the 60s). They moved into a new building on Binney St. in 2023 (you can see it in the upper right hand corner), which MIT built them in exchange for the old campus. Most if not all of the old buildings are unoccupied and will be demolished in the not too distant future… and yes, it is apparently true that the current administration wants to sell the brand new replacement building.

4000series

 Somewhere in the multiverse the words “Cambridge we have a problem” were transmitted back to Earth

MelBuckpitt

The white building just to the right in your pic is the new one.

LEM1978

They’re building a new one just behind it. But DOGE wants to close it and sell it off.

unionizeordietrying

It is coming down. That building was constructed in the mid-1960 I think? In any event, I’ve been inside it a few times and it was definitely showing its age.

blacklassie

[deleted]

There's a lot of potential reasons (and transportation planners can add better context than I can), however the biggest thing to keep in mind is that "city officials" likely have little or nothing to do with adding lanes anywhere.

This almost always happens on either state highways or interstates, where state and federal governments control everything about the roads from the maintenance to the traffic signals to decisions around lane widening. There's lots of county-maintained roads in rural areas, but no real desire to expand them.

Roadways maintained by a local municipality likely have no room to expand since the right of way will typically go right up to the property line of a privately-owned parcel. A situation where a city would, for instance, use eminent domain to expand the road level of service on a boulevard is so rare it simply doesn't happen anymore.

cruzweb

It doesn't solve traffic but it does increase volume, so more cars can get to a place. Inefficient compared to rail or bus, but I'm not in charge of transportation dollars.

TheAnswerIsAnts

That’s kind of the only thing they have immediate influence over. I struggle to think of a sizable transit agency in the US that’s only run at the city level instead of something like the county/counties, a regional entity or a state. The few that do (like the DC circulator routes) get outcompeted by them and remain small or shut down.

And cities typically rely on state and federal funding for infrastructure projects, which favor road construction over transit expansion.

Kevin7650

Elected official have to please their constituant.

xMercurex

City administration doesn't always know. My manager said that it would be easy to solve traffic congestion on a stroad on our city if we could just add a lane.

I had to explain to them that it doesn't work like that. That they would simply induce demand. I was, according to them way to deep into the matter, over thought it, and it was to wooly for them to enhance pt and bike infrastructure.

I quit. I can't stand the thinking and dumb opinions anymore

Sijosha

It is because it doesn’t seem to match common sense and is anti-intuitive. Public pressure and officials looking to ease short term transportation pressure’s don’t always know or trust planners or transportation engineers when they say this either. It is a constant battle to correct information like this.

justfanclasshole

Most answers are saying that the public demands more roads, so planners and engineers just mindlessly build that. I think there should be more pushback against that mentality.


Within adjacent fields like architecture and civil/structural engineering, there are minimum standards of care. No matter how strongly a client demands a building without proper fire protection, the designers *must* provide it. A city can't just decide their city hall doesn't need wheelchair access, no matter how strongly community members complain that ramps are a waste of money. That stuff costs money, but it's just baked into the cost of construction. 


If a design doesn't include minimum standards, it won't get permits. If it somehow does still get built, the owners and designers open themselves up to legal liability if anyone is harmed as a result. 


Urban planning should take a more similar approach where it's simply unacceptable to build roads that will harm people. Basic safety shouldn't be open to public comment, and intentionally designing streets that will put people in danger shouldn't be the norm. Urban planners and traffic engineers with the expertise and experience, they shouldn't let members of the public bully them into ignoring professional best practices. 

UF0_T0FU

Whenever someone says a policy "will/won't solve XXX", the question should always be "for whom?" More lanes does solve problems for drivers. An individual driver is more likely to get through faster, so much so that it can even induce other drivers to do things they otherwise wouldn't.

Delli-paper

Because it's something actionable that they can do comparatively cheaply and quickly to real solutions, because said real solutions are often unpopular (on paper) when seen by people who don't understand transit (like removing/narrowing lanes seems counterintuitive to the layperson), and because it does \*appear\* to solve the problem temporarily at which time they can pass the buck.

sirkidd2003

Same reason they keep adding more lanes at drive thrus, its what the people want (for some reason)

bga93

Path of least resistance. The only thing a politician wants is to continue being a politician either in that office or a higher office and doing the the easy thing that's likely to have the least opposition almost guarantees you a reelection

RazzmatazzEastern786

It's popular and it's what grant money will pay for.

TuggsBrohe

By and large, they do not know this. Induced demand has been known for decades but the traffic engineering profession does not include this in their planning for the most part. It varies state by state and person to person of course. Most engineers are afraid of going to court and so they don't question why the manuals/guides are written the way they are. Only a few are involved in TRB committees to actively discuss this stuff to include in the manual updates. 

more_butts_on_bikes

Citynerd came out with a video on this recently

Particular_Quiet_435

It can often solve traffic issues over certain time horizons and if traffic remains the same you've increased throughput.

jeffwulf

I’m trained as an urban planner and an as an architect.  I have extensive experience working on transit/rail projects, but that was big city, NYC, and years ago.  I’ve heard the theory of induced demand and I know transit advocates love to throw it out there, but I experience the real world debunking of that theory often as my family lives on one side of the Potomac west of DC and two of our family has work or school on the other side.  I get plenty of time to think about how wrong induced demand theory is, for like an hour at a time when sitting on the 4 lanes of the beltway, with no other options, as the only route connecting 2 suburban counties with over a million people each.  The road hasn’t widened in a meaningful way since the 1960s when it was built.   It’s mostly a factor of the bottleneck at the American legion bridge over the Potomac.  As a rail project experienced person, and long time transit user… rail options (or worse, bus) are ludicrous.   It takes me 20 minutes without traffic for the route, and while it can be 1.5 hours in horrible traffic, and is often 45-60 in rush hour of idling cars, transit would be over 2 hours door to door. You just can’t solve that in America with transit, but at least people’s strife and all the greenhouse gases of traffic would be mitigated by stopping the over simplistic and unrealistic talk of induced demand.

sjp724

Many progressive city administrations would agree with you, but they either cannot do anything to the roads they want to diet (because they're state/county/federal routes), or there are constituents/stakeholders who will put up too big a stink. Sometimes there can be technical issues but these are usually excuses cooked up by engineers and firefighters who love large vehicles. 

Sabbath isn't 100% right because myriad road diets have been successfully sold to the public or have significant support from some constituents. Additionally, NIMBYs have protested road widenings with success on many occasions. It depends on the specific context; controlled access motorways and big stroads (usually state or county routes) seem to be more susceptible to widening, while many cities have been successfully doing lane reductions left &amp; right on streets they control. Public opposition or buy-in can also be the opposite of what you'd expect - just depends on many factors like local politics and how things are marketed.

tommy_wye

The appearance of problem solving, press, contention jobs, and contracts for their owners, oops,  I mean donors.

Darnocpdx

Because in the short term it does help. For like 3 years. Just long enough to get reelected!

FocoLocoL

JohnCoutu

City officials are often elected. They may not know. They may not care if their constituents say they want more lanes whether they know or not.

It's also possible that they suspect there are some exceptions to the idea. It would fit "common sense" to suspect there might be some situation where adding lanes could reduce traffic congestion. I mean... If population has reached a maximum, and everyone owns a car, and everyone commutes for work. And nobody can afford to take road trips... It would make some sense to assume there's no place more cars could come from to jam up a wider road...  That assumption has been disproven by decades of research, but it would seem to follow "common sense".

Dangerous-Bit-8308

A good example of this is universal healthcare. People are almost always against it when it’s going in. Once they have it, they refuse to give it up.

Dolamite9000

Because most of their voter base is uninformed and think more lies will help. They do it for the easy votes because these people can’t be bothered or don’t care to aknowledge the reality of how wasteful and counter productive “one more lane” is. 

JonathanWisconsin

Because….. their buddy owns the general contracting company that adds lanes that they just so happen to own a stake in.  

Huge coincidence

Primary_Excuse_7183

Adding a lane actually fixed traffic where I used to live. It’s because it was two lanes than went into one lane for 2 kilometres before going back to two lanes for a left turn lane and a straight ahead lane at an intersection. After the second lane ran the whole way the left turning traffic could flow continuously without interruption. Not sure if that counts as adding a lane or is it just technically extending a lane. 

Probably the only time I’ve seen adding a lane actually make a huge difference

Nebs90

The majority is car dependent. Rich and influential people who lobby the government are car dependent. Government officials are car dependent. Federal funds are heavily biased towards building car infrastructure.

vitingo

Upton Sinclair said that “It is difficult to get a man to understand something when his salary depends on his not understanding it.” I feel like this is 1000 times as true for traffic engineers

feedmewifi_

And how many of these cities have some kind of climate action plan and are trying to “go green?” Road widening totally runs counter to those environmental goals. 

Ellaraymusic

Tokyo-MontanaExpress

If you are running for any position of power you get elected by appealing to the voting base and what appeals to the voting base depends largely on the culture and education. 


The idea that more lanes = more traffic is not widely known or believed in the America's yet and we are so car centric that there tends to be a bias against proposed alternatives.  Many people here can't fathom an alternative unless they are privileged enough to travel abroad and see it for themselves. Even if they do, there are some people who, if something conflicts with their ideologies they will ignore facts/statistics/logic to satisfy their beliefs. 

Infinite-Ad359

Car 💃🏻 and Oil 💃🏻 Lobbies 💃🏻💃🏻💃🏻💃🏻

WitchKingofBangmar

Public demands it. They are elected to hell and high water

Unfair_Tonight_9797

It appeases the masses even though they’ve been through god knows how many briefings and presentations on how road widening doesn’t work and is just more expensive in the long run

Jessintheend

Traffic issues couldn't be "solved" it is just the fundamental reality with limited resources and space constraints even with trains, transit or whatever Musk is dreaming in his head. 

Adding 1 lane is the easiest, fastest and has the least resistance. We also have a selection criteria, methods and knowledge that biases on adding one more lane.

zooweemama8

I haven’t known a city to “add” lanes anywhere TBH. Cities have moved to subtracting lanes.

UCanDoNEthing4_30sec

If I had the chance to have more than one Nathan Lane, I wouldn't hesitate regardless of his effects on traffic

Mr3k

I remember, when I was a teenager, probably 2000 or so, the Roanoke Times published a proposed plan that would have built car-only and truck-only lanes on 81. I was so excited because I thought it was actually being put into action. My dad had to inform me that it was probably never going to happen.

Now that I regularly drive up and down 81 with my kids in the car, I'm even MORE disappointed.

charugan

nyuhokie

VA State Police are a big part of the problem 

It would be nice if the state police ever enforced anything on truckers. I travel 81 from Roanoke to Winchester on a regular, I've seen some crazy shit done by truckers and never see trucks pulled over. 

Sitting on the median doesn't solve anything!

Suspicious_Push_9432

h3fabio

Damn guys… just use US11 as God intended.

Edit:  Have you even travelled through the Harrisonburg/Dayton/Mt. Crawford Metroplex?

RiskyMFer

Best we can do is put up signs that say “Rough Road Next 50 miles”.

theTrozen1

A lot of people are confusing the issue with interstates in major metropolitan areas where people hop in cars and clog the roads on their 10 mile commute to work and back.

I-81 is not jammed from commuters. It is jammed with trucks. Adding passenger rail service won't take the trucks off the road. And the sad reality is that the federal government has allowed freight rail monopolies to only  serve the largest of clients at dedicated terminals. Not to mention that any solution that involves moving freight onto rails has to include multiple states since it would be extremely impractical to just have a rail terminal in Winchester and one on Bristol.

I know there is such thing as induced demand. But again, that only applies to metropolitan areas where it would incentivize people to move out to the suburbs. But this is an interstate through a primarily rural area and only a few small-medium cities.

So yes, I do think an extra lane is the solution. Specifically, the far left lane would only be for cars, no trucks, no busses. And this is because even when trucks try to pass while going the speed limit, as soon as they start going up a hill, they slow down.

eaglescout1984

I81 is simply too small for the volume of traffic, despite what the foolish state officials say. It was too small more than a decade ago. 
77 through Carrol county is like that too. 
Virginia is a state with good funding, but their highways are a big problem they refuse to do anything about. 
They’ll do a study about it for a few years, declare that tolls or widening the highway in a few places around congested areas is the only thing needed,  that will be their answer for a few years at which point new people will be in charge and a newer study is needed that will take years. The only solution is it being a 3 lane highway throughout or diverting truck traffic which isn’t an option. Virginia simply won’t commit to doing what they have to about it.
The traffic will only get worse till the point it causes a transportation crisis at which point the state won’t be able to do anything.

swvacatguy

Never forget that Gov McConnell tried to push state dollars towards a new 460 before adding a new lane to 81.

Successful-Trash-409

Good luck, especially looking at those in charge of the state and federal government currently!

Ambitious_Pool_8290

It needs to be 6 lanes from Christiansburg to the West Virginia state line so trucks can use the middle lane to pass

NoahSmith2009

Virginia is horrible at road infrastructure.  They've been talking about a mythical minimum 6 lane 81 from border to border since I can remember back in the 90's on an probably before then.  

They gave up on upgrading rt 29 an 220

95 is a shit show to.

AdLiving1435

Successful-Engine623

Couldn’t agree more. I drive to Lexington from Baltimore and have to do 100+ miles of it every time. Going either way on 81 is a nonstop interaction with semis in both of the two lanes.

VariableVeritas

The last time I was on it, I was sandwiched in between 2 18 wheelers, front and back, and then another bozo on my right. Completely trapped. Worse still, I watched the one behind me eventually dust up into the median to avoid squishing me. They all drive like they’re Honda civics.

Blackberryy

I81 needs a 3rd lane, both directions, length of VA.

And Zero fkn trucks except far right lane.

NOW!

RdtRanger6969

It's the most trafficked interstate in the USA on the East Coast too.

Prestigious-Buy2365

I just need to know why theirs always an accident at Toms Brook/Strasburg. And south of Harrisonburg always has an accident by a bridge

xcmike189

This post would've been as accurate in 1995 as it is today.

qedpoe

Marylander here, just gonna chime in to say don't count on it 😅 You've clearly noticed how VDOT only cares about NOVA. The Hampton Roads area is much more populated than the areas served by 81, and they get no love. I find it so bizarre how NOVA gets endless highway expansions, like that will EVER solve the traffic, and other areas can't even get basic maintenance and upgrades.

Ambitious-Intern-928

I think 95% of ppl driving on 81 actually don’t realize there’s a left lane law ( only for passing ) if your not passing get the fck over

Jas_will96

Rich_Jacket_3213

f8Negative

I agree with you BUT, in order to fully expand 81 to the extent that it needs to be, expect 81 to become a toll road in order to offset the construction costs. There was an effort a few years ago to toll 81 for commercial vehicles only, but that never made it anywhere and was killed. In Virginia, the priorities are interstates 95 and 64 because of the absolute huge amount of people that use them. Hate to say it, but 81 is often forgotten about. Having grown up in Pa and moving to the Richmond area a few years ago, trust me, I've spend many many days and hours traveling interstate 81 and it's a major artery in Virginia that's been neglected for far too long. But I have a feeling that they're won't be any large scale improvement done over there without tolls being implemented, and people will wage a holy war against it, so, it sits as it is.

svemt5731

Simple solution. Get rid of DC. Then they all take 95.

Tricky_Big_8774

From what I’ve seen/heard in my area, 66 to Staunton is getting expanded to start

wowmomcooldad

ITT: People who understand traffic, induced demand, and thinking about infrastructure problems in a time scale of decades vs car brains asking if people who disagree with more highway lanes to solve every problem if they can read or not.

sleevieb

I grew up commuting between SW VA and Nova. 
We only ever took 81 in extreme circumstances, like family emergencies.  This goes back to the nineteen eighties for me, knowing how dangerous and scary having to drive it was.

SeeCopperpot

They need to expand 81 to 3 lanes from 66 to Roanoke (or even beyond those points), and restrict trucks to the right lane only.

bkhamze

I may the odd one out here but, I prefer 81 to 95. I realize they go two different directions. I prefer two lanes moving to three. On 95 there’s the passing lane, the traveling lane then the crazy driver passing lane on the right.

Eye-Can-Fix-It

I don't know if you have been on 81 lately, but there are MANY different parts of it south of Harrisonburg to Roanoke that currently being expanded. Like, maybe parts of it on the north end aren't, cause I haven't been up near Winchester in a bit,  but the main descriptor I would use for 81 right now is 'under construction'.

Myndsync

If it is not affordable passenger rail then it will not help. Expanding highways is demonstrably not the solution.  We will only gain population and the highway can only hold so many people regardless of how wide you make them because of choke points at bridges and interchanges. Diversity of transportation options is the only answer if we actually want to allow people to move about our country efficiently.

Wolfalanche

KevinJ424

The Shenandoah Parallelogram. 

Guaranteed to have an accident immediately after you check gps to see if the route is clear, both north AND south at exit 235, and a tractor trailer fire while a family of ghosts watches from the shoulder where their wagon burned on that same exact spot 200 years ago.

Somehow made even worse by Buc-ees opening at 240, and let’s not forget the congestion caused by Schrodinger’s bridge at 247. Which lane is open? Which has stop signs? Which has a newly erupted metal sculpture that bisects your lane right before your turn, which may or may not exist anymore? Will a driver with Maryland tags sharply cut in front of you to turn only to then immediately cut back in front of you while Dukes of Hazzard’ing through the grass after realizing their lane won’t get them home?

MandalorianLich

That one section that crests over the mountain in southwest Virginia almost got me killed. Stopped traffic just past it and semi came barreling. Dodged me but jackknifed and smacked a whole buncha other folks.

derganove

All you need is a beach at one end, and VDOT will expand it. One day 64 from Richmond to tidewater will be 6 to 8 lanes. Only catch is there are no mountains, and tidewater has military and money.

beardad61

Needs to be 4 lanes instead of 2.  Don't even stop at 3 lanes go ahead and get it done.  Could also use traffic lights that control getting onto the highway.

Top-Figure7252

Caverns (exit 269) south bound on ramp is all I got to say about RT81. If you want to die thats the ramp that is more than willing to oblige.

NoMoreViolins2025

The 81 fix is decade’s too late. VDOT has been slow to react and put sections out to bid. Even then most of the active work is only going to 3 lanes. Outdated before it’s even finished.

You do know they have been working on widening it for years now, right? 

Fixing it isn't going to happen overnight.

WolfSilverOak

Vdot is having community meetings about 81 up and down the corridor soon. One here in the valley is at blue ridge community college. I urge everyone to attend a meeting.

SimplySustainabl-e

But they got a Buc-ee’s, didn’t that fix most of the problems?

polyarmory80pct

I81 between I66 and I64 has always been a menace. Suck it up buttercup..

Hooliken

Its gonna get worse here soon when us48 is finished due to it being a toll-free direct route to dc from the great lakes

Complex_Pudding6138

I can’t in good conscience support highway expansion. It never pans out and the solution is alternatives like trains.

Cars will never scale like the alternatives can. We need to divest.

Gergi_247

They can't even do that on Afton Mountain.

Maleficent-System-31

I find it amazing the North Carolina can have all kinds of interstate highways built in no time and Virginia is still scratching its ass about what to do with 81!

Fyrfyter03

I moved to Natural Bridge in 1991. We lived near 81. The ratio of trucks to cars began to change. Then in less than a decade, a large number of accidents on the stretch from Buchanan to Lexington occurred. Horrible deaths. 
I do everything thing in my power to not drive on that road. I have family who live in Rockbridge County who refused to ever drive that interstate. 
I now live in South Central Virginia, no where near an interstate ❤️

Traditional-Ad-4654

It might be a shitty road but the scenery from Lexington to Bristol is gorgeous.

PacklineDefense

https://www.natso.com/anti-tolling-coalition-pushes-back-against-va-plans-to-toll-i-81/

Road construction is expensive. The state doesn’t budget for things like that because people don’t like paying taxes. There was a plan to do an express lanes option, but the people in that part of the state didn’t want it. The people in NOVA don’t like paying $30 to get to work either on toll roads at peak times, but the option was get the private developer to do it for toll revenue or not do it. In a perfect world we would manage infrastructure better, but we live in the real world, and when folks vote for a government that wants to cut things, I don’t see how we can expect to get good public infrastructure or services. 

Virginia is in a tough spot and doesn’t have the density of the Northeast outside of a few counties, and doesn’t have the manufacturing that’s popping up across the south. It has a huge port, a navy base, proximity to the federal government, which isn’t particularly reliable right now as a source of employment or economic activity, some limited agriculture, and a few nice college towns.

randomguyoninternet3

I have driven the part between 66 and 40 a few times in a car and it's not a good time. I don't mind the trucks taking a while to pass each other. For me the biggest annoyance is the cars hanging out in the left lane refusing to move over with a line of cars behind them.

photoblues

Interstate 81 in Virginia is a concern, especially two accidents in the last three days now, and so many accidents that take place on that stretch of highway, mostly trucks, hear about it every day. It’s better known as “death road”. Tolls would help, just like Ohio, West Virginia, and Pennsylvania that have turnpikes and fewer fatalities because they have to pay to use it. 

Literally working on it now,  what more do y'all want.

LetJesusFuckU

This post is an example of why some people need ChatGPT.

Soft_Secret_1920

Wife and I live off I-81 in Shenandoah County.  I personally stay off I-81 unless I absolutely have to drive it.  We drove home from NY yesterday and we did Rt 15 and eventually got on 81 in Harrisburg.  Absolutely horrible truck traffic from there into VA.  Not blaming the trucks as the need for them continues to grow and grow but the road is a hot mess mixing all of these trucks and cars together.  But when they eventually start the fixes by adding lanes I cannot wait to hear the bitching and moaning coming from us all due to the horrible backups and delays.

Gregorygregory888888

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