There is significant public support for the implementation of CCTV monitoring in police stations, with many commenters believing it will enhance police accountability and protect citizens' rights. However, there are ongoing concerns regarding the effective implementation of such systems, the potential for privacy violations, and the management of access to footage, pointing to a cautious optimism regarding the measure.

Supreme Court

Police Departments

Civil Rights Organizations

Youll have to move an appropriate application before the concerned magistrate. RTI wont cover that.

chromepanda37

chaooooo17

Not through RTI, but through the lower courts of appropriate jurisdiction, usually the Magistrate's court.

AkshaySanilLaw

I love how this is played out in movies and TV, seen it 100 times and its always the same: 

Clerk: You got a warrant? 

Offficer: Convinces them ( a girl is in danger, how about I tell vice about the weed you were smoking earlier, etc ). 

  
They never do it the proper way. What is that anyway?

Mowo5

Officers can ask, but they ultimately do not have a legal RIGHT to security footage.  If it comes to it, the police just need a warrant - but as long as they can present reasonable justifications to any judge they're extremely unlikely to be denied that warrant.  And they wouldn't even require that much time to get the warrant and the footage requested.  They will, however, get REALLY pissy about having to go out of their way to actually follow the law and respect rights rather than just be OBEYED in unlimited expectation of compliance.

duanelvp

Officers can politely ask, and some people will let them. They will need a search warrant to compel anyone to give them access. Most corporations would ask for a warrant and case number to let the officer leave with a certified copy.

An officer in their regular patrol area would probably visit a small business they know personally and ask the owner.

SheepherderAware4766

Most places are just asking.

Some places are weird about it.  Like,.one thing I found strange is the local Walmart will let LEOs view footage for a crime unrelated to their business, but they will need a warrant or court subpoena to leave with a copy.

Special-Estimate-165

The strictest case is that they need a warrant. To use a video game metaphor, that's playing on hard mode.

Easy mode is, the camera owner just gives them the footage immediately on being asked.

In between those extremes might be, for example, going through a third party, like with a Ring doorbell camera.

Kelli217

Alita-Gunnm

As someone who works in private security, the one rule we have is if the cops show up and ask for footage they get it. Im the boss of my site and that is one rule I have hammered into my guards. Police ask for anything with our cameras they get it.

And funny enough it has happened twice in the year I've been head of my site.

randomthoughts56789

Unaffiliated business or affected business will usually just hand it over without questioning. 


If a business refuses, the police will just get a warrant and take the footage anyways

Normal_Candle499

I work IT for an industry. We have cameras everywhere and I manage them. From time to time the police will come to us to ask for footage for incidents that don't involve our company. We pretty much always just give it to them. I have to review it to make sure nothing is on there we don't want in the public record (a component we make being in frame that we can't let the public see or something like that). In general we never refuse the request or have a problem giving them the footage. 

Usually they will give me details like, "On September 8 at 1:00 PM a red Ford Truck with Ohio plates may have gone down Factory Road. He likely had 2 cop cars chasing him. Could you send us any footage from that day with that truck in it?" 

Once they asked for all the footage for 1 day. It was a pain in the ass but we delivered that too. Has to watch the whole thing at 32x speed in my living room that night before I could sign off on it. They didn't give me any details other than they was a crime. Rumor was it was for some drug trafficking or something and they wanted the plates of every car that went down our road. 

Residential cameras are a tougher thing. We keep our videos for 60 days, a home may only have them for a week or a few days. In residential situations, ask nicely. 

In both cases the company and the private residence don't have any obligation to give you footage, but most will. If it solves a crime and get something bad out of your neighborhood, why wouldn't you cooperate. If the cops really need it and the business or resident aren't cooperative the police can get a warrant.

ThatCrossDresser

If the owner of the camera refuses to share you need basically a warrant from a judge to force them to surrender the footage. This might be very easy or difficult to obtain depending on how you can plead your case to the judge and show the need for the footage . For murder it should be very easy.

mightymite88

These days, some businesses have cameras in the parking lot that have announcements on loop like "This is for your safety" and they sometimes also say "The police have access to this footage."

From what I gather, this is probably a post COVID thing and relates to businesses generally not being open at night and neighborhoods being more dangerous due to lack of foot traffic. A lot of 24/7 establishments, including Walmart, stopped being open all the time and a lot of late night stuff just went away.

So potentially: They just access it without asking anyone.

DoreenMichele

Depends on how forthcoming the owner of the security camera is, and whether or not they have probable cause to get a  warrant to obtain the security footage.

The latter is usually pretty trivial if the cops have even a whiff of a case.

hackingdreams

Something that people are leaving out. In many cases, even if the person who owns the camera doesn't give consent, the company that made the camera will give the police access to the recordings. Ring in particular.

nerdywhitemale

I’m a cop.

Either the property owner (or representative) consents and willingly gives them the footage or the police get a warrant/subpoena.

Financial_Month_3475

I don't live in Chicago or even the states. Sometimes cooperating with cops is not the smartest thing to do. Having the cops handcuff everyone at the drug house next door and search the place then come to your door and tell you in person that everything is fixed now... its not helpful you know. That shit gets people killed. Some cops are as smart as a bag of hammers. That's what phones are for. 

Even if official policy says not until a warrant, unofficial social engineering may be successful. Sometimes people will cooperate to maintain the neighborhood. Showing up late at night with hot coffee and doughnuts might be a good way to approach the night security guard and ask nicely. Might just need to watch through half an hour of tape, and not need a copy.   
  
Being a dick about it will probably need a warrant though.   
A lot of it depends on reputation, experiences and relationships. Does the security guard have a good relationship with the cops? Did their brother in law have his car ripped apart during a search on the side of the road last week for not much reason? Have they participated in their community? Do they talk to the people and understand them?

civil_peace2022

Clarification: There actually was a homicide, or at least a dead person due to demons?

The security crew for the different businesses are characters too, so their decisions are under your control. How on-page is the process going to be?

And thank you for identifying the location and who your main characters are.

csl512

Well, there are two aspects to this investigation, an officer's professional procedures to collect evidence for use in a prosecution, and actually getting access to camera footage.

I point this out because of the case of Ray Rice, a NFL player which partly started the MeToo movement.  He was at a casino hotel with his fiancee and as they walk to an elevator, they are arguing.  When they are in the privacy of the elevator, he slugs her and knocks her out.  The entire incident was recorded by several security cams.

I believe TMZ acquired this footage, and I was curious how they did it.  It was obvious they paid a security person, which I assume only a handful of casino employees had direct access so it would be easy for their employer to track down who did it.  However, the casino was closing, and I assume the employee who leaked it didn't care about keeping their job since they were out of a job anyway.  And since this was TMZ not a criminal investigation, how the footage was acquired did not matter.

During a criminal investigation, someone can grant the police permission to search their premises and view footage of their cameras.  All evidence of a crime can be used in court.  Obviously, people hiding evidence won't grant permission so then a warrant is required to perform a search.

A business who isn't committing any crimes will probably consent to the police looking at their camera footage.  The cops don't need to give them a reason or be honest: all they need is consent.  If evidence isn't being collected, illegal methods like threats and bribes should work and of course be part of your story.

sanjuro_kurosawa

There was a theft across the street from me and the LAPD was asking our neighbors if anybody had any camera footage (e.g., a Ring camera or whatever). Sometimes people or businesses will simply allow the police access to their camera footage because they want to help solve a crime.

sneaky_imp

Depends on how much the MC cares about whether or not the punishments need to be legal.

Does she want the perp locked up in prison? She needs a warrant or permission.

Is she just going to kill the perp and hide the body? Or something else I'm not thinking of but that's still off the books? She can bully her way into the office, threaten to arrest anyone who stops her, go over the footage, then carry on about her day. If she tries to use the video as evidence for a case it will absolutely be thrown out because she didn't obtain it legally. But if she doesn't care about that the only consequences are if the owners/employees file a report. She can intimidate them or persuade them out of that, and if she can't it only matters if her bosses decide it's worth punishing her over.

Kajin-Strife

They either need a search warrant, or the permission of the rightful owner of the footage.

There are some other ways to conduct a legal search, like probable cause (if the camera was in a criminals possession while they commited a crime, or something), or abandoned property (if the camera and it's drive was thrown away) and a few others, but in the case of security cameras all of these are incredibly unlikely.

-Random_Lurker-

I know this is not the answer you want, but: it depends. 

You mention industrial district, so it's possible whoever owns the warehouses would be like, "Yeah sure, of course Officer!" and voluntarily hand over footage from private security cameras, BUT otherwise it requires a warrant. It isn't likely she could get a warrant without good reason. A judge wouldn't sign off on a warrant for private property (security footage) of a civilian without a clearly defined reason proving that it was indeed necessary to solve an active official police case. 

So basically, if you have a friendly warehouse owner, she can get them easy peasy. But through legal channels, it's gonna be unlikely. (or she could go door 3 and steal the footage.)

Turbulent-Parsley619

Run a local nvr that has no direct outbound access to internet.  

VPN into your network to see the cameras

vha23

There's nothing safe about any cloud system. 

Whack-a-Moole

Reolink cameras, and firewall them so they can't talk to the Internet.

Cloud crap is optional, nobody can force you to allow it.

Kahless_2K

UniFi may solve your issue if you are more interested in paying for ease of use and convenience and don't want to go full on DYI - [https://store.ui.com/us/en/products/unvr](https://store.ui.com/us/en/products/unvr) \-- its a local camera recorder so you own and control all of it at all times but it's also easy to access remotely, export files/events to cloud storage and otherwise use as needed without a lot of DIY and network/VPN/tunnel hacking

The major downside is that real security systems use hardwired lines (*ethernet POE which means a single network cable powers the camera and delivers the data back to the NVR*)  as wireless cameras have weak bandwidth and can be jammed with simple gear, something that is happening more often in some burglary scenarios.  The other downside is that UniFi gets better if you are all in on their ecosystem -- POE switches to plug everything in to etc. etc.

I'm all in on UniFi except for firewalls and use them for switching, cameras, NVR and all my wireless access points. Have three different sites each with a dedicated NVR and maybe 30+ cameras.  

I can't over stress the value of real POE wired cameras when footage, resolution and clarity matters.  And the edge-AI detection is getting better and better at automatically tagging humans, animals, cars and "loitering" -- although they will still generate false alerts all night when a spider starts spinning a web in front of the lens

One of my setups in  Boston has attracted police attention twice and both times I cooperated because the detective knocking at our door was polite, made it clear I had no obligation to act and both times they were looking for footage that could help  them solve violent crimes. Both times they let me pull the footage myself and send them what I thought would be helpful.  Had they been more confrontational or seeking full access to my recordings my response would have been far different, heh.

dghah

I had the same issue. Plus, I wanted to avoid subscription fees. So the answer is a bit more up front because the storage isn't a subscription fee that subsidize the hardware. 

For Ring type devices I went with Eufy. I have a few outdoor cameras I added solar power to, and their wired doorbell. The recordings are stored on their base unit that lives next to my router. There is an Internet connection so I can see and respond to any visitors while I'm away, but all video is stored on my home network where a warrant would be required. 

I also added a legacy style security DVR system from Swann. These come with six or eight cameras and a recording DVR that you add a hard drive to. Mine are wired with BNC connectors. The main difference between the least expensive systems and the better ones is the software. It takes a if configuration to make it accessible over the Internet so I didn't bother with that  This system's job is just to record. 

I wanted to set up a monitor with the can images on it full time, like security in a store. But I guess only the wired systems do that due to power requirements. I do have the Swann cameras set up with an app on a monitor in our living room so we can see those 8 cameras at a glance.

fshagan

Exactly why I don't use them in the traditional sense. I have my own system that has a app there are plenty just make sure like others said you are running it into your own DVR. Another option would be go with like reolink system but again don't use their cloud services only run it into a private NVR. Your gonna be hard pressed to find a company that won't give up your data with no fight.

Thenascarguy2017

I have an Eufy system that allows me local storage with remote access but it doesn’t store anything into a cloud or external service.

darkdevman

The few cameras I've owned/used over the years, have had SD storage option that I chose over the cloud

burghfan3

Get cameras that record to an nvr you have in your house.

OKCsparrow

As others have said, you can always have a system that isn’t tied to a subscription based service and just to your NVR. We install axis cameras and it allows our clients to retrieve recorded footage from either memory cards or their NVR (through port forwarding) bypassing any cloud requirements.

One thing that I will add that I actually learned very recently, is that some law enforcement agencies offer just “registering” your camera systems with them. Meaning, if there is a crime in your area, they would have information regarding your location and that you might have cameras that could have caught any nefarious activity. They do NOT automatically pull any footage, they leave the onus on you to provide if you desire. It’s merely a tool for them to reach out to see if you can assist. 

Ring, actually discontinued their “request for assistance” tool last year.  

https://www.pbs.org/newshour/politics/ring-will-no-longer-allow-police-to-request-doorbell-camera-footage-from-users

Ockittykat23

You can use a monitoring service, but do not use their cameras.

Then run your own cameras to an NVR as someone else just suggested.

Vuelhering

Go to YouTube and search:

"FUTO a guide to a self managed life" parts 1 and 2

Justifiers

Ubiquiti or a similar local-only service. More upfront hardware cost, no cloud subscription. And, you can access cameras over internet if you have a full Ubiquiti rig

aut0g3n3r8ed

As mentioned go with a local NVR and you don't have to worry about it.  I went with a middle ground I was comfortable with and went with HomeKit with Aqara cameras.

boomhower1820

#teamsynology.   

I love the system, and camera control is part of that.

Great apps and everything is stored locally, redundant on twin hard drives... allows use of ANY cheap or expensive camera over ethernet and wifi. But that NAS does need hardware ethernet

industrialAutistic

Just store your own videos.  No need for cloud or subscriptions or any of that, and you control security fully.  Local NVR.  Buy or build.  To build, blue iris and frigate are the current go tos.  To buy, reolink makes some decent stuff.  Until you get the NVR running, good cameras will operate stand alone. Hikvision, dahua, reolink, etc. In all cases, block the cameras from the Internet and use VPN for any remote access.

Appropriate-Disk-371

Go with POE cameras and an NVR.
Goes with a better camera system than the Amazon.com stuff.
Uniview,  Speco, Ubiquiti, Wise, are 4 that would give you what you are looking for. 
Nellyssecurity.com sells Uniview and Wise.
The cameras and app that are used can not be accessed by anyone you dont specifically authorize.

winerover-Yak-4822

pueblokc

billm0066

I've been using Synology Surveillance Station for a number of years. All my cameras are Amcrest 4K turret. I do have Ubiquiti gear in my home so maybe one day I'll switch over but for now everything works great.

ArtZTech

Look into Synology Surveillance Station. All local, on your own hardware, but with their app you can remote in and monitor the cameras anywhere you have Internet access.

ehbowen

Go to NewEgg and look for NVR packages with the number of cameras you want. You want at least 2MP cameras to get facial features at a distance, otherwise you can go as high MP as you want to spend money on. Some packages come with ethernet, if the one you want doesn't then buy pre-made CAT5a or CAT6 solid-copper ethernet cables of the lengths you need to run across your attic to each camera. Buy or borrow a fiber glass "fishing pole" for running cables through walls and attics. Then spend a hot and busy weekend running cables through your attic to every camera location on the exterior of your house. Mounting cameras under soffits is really straight forward and protects the camera from the weather which will extend its life. An oscillating cutting tool and/or cordless drill makes life easier for cutting holes in the soffits for the camera cable pass-through. NVR's usually don't support wifi so will need to plug it directly into your home router and NVR setup will require a small amount of networking knowledge, mainly if you want to see your cameras while away from home as mentioned. You will need a dynamic dns solution, there are tons of them out there and most NVR's have their own suggested services for this.

Also note: on the CAT5a, you must avoid CCA cable as it is likely to give you problems since the NVR injects power into the ethernet to power the cameras, if you make your own cables then also get a RJ45 crimper and RJ45 connectors and spend some time practicing how to crimp the ends. It's slow but not that hard.

dosman33

It's unfortunate that the go-to when someone says they value their privacy is to assume they're doing something wrong.

Unfortunately, any time another party has your data, it's at risk of unauthorized (by you) disclosure to third parties. This could be law enforcement with a warrant, they can't really say no... And let's not pretend that warrants are always required, or that law enforcement is the only ones who might gain access to your data.  There are way too many documented examples of camera vendors misusing data, some of which is downright evil.

I'm a huge proponent of owning your own data. I believe that if law enforcement wants access to my recorded video, they should have to ask me for it, and I should have the ability to say no. Cam vendors and cloud providers don't have that ability.

This is a big part of why I'm in the Thingino project. We make a firmware replacement for a bunch of compatible cameras, and you're removed from the vendor's ecosystem entirely. We provide ONVIF and RTSP interfaces to your devices, and you can interface them with basically any NVR application, or use it with its built-in features and your cam's new web interface and wireguard vpn client. We don't have a cloud service, we don't have an app, you don't need to create an account, and our firmware is free. You don't even have to trust us, as an open source project our source code is on Github as well as easy instructions to build it locally.

WLTechBlog

If you're not connected to their cloud service, what's the big deal?  If you're saving to your internal network, you have control over your data.

micahpmtn

I have a Lorex NVR. I still can access it outside of the house, there is no subscription, there is no third party that has access to my NVR.

ejsandstrom

pahoran2

Frontpoint Security always requires a subpoena to work with PD. Otherwise they are told to kick rocks

LeastPlatform5833

CbcITGuy

Jumper_Connect

You don't want Ring anyway. It can't even resolve a license plate from 20 feet.

Striking_Computer834

We have an 8 camera system that has dvd recording. It has an app that is synced to the control box and I can log in to view my cameras from anywhere. There are several companies that make these kits.

Tacos_N_Bourbon

clearcam is good if you've got spare iphones, local AI detection, open source, and E2E encryption (I made it)

carhuntr

Thanks for the info.
1. Would i be able to connect an external chime to the ubiquiti doorbell?
I have a chime I bought 10 yrs ago that has 20 stock chimes and can store a hundred custom chimes.
I have my own stuff for holidays,  Addams family , and freaky music/stuff for Halloween, etc.

One of these days, I'll connect an external speaker to it in the crawlspace. 

2. How quickly does your phone get the video?
More often than not, whoever pops into range is gone long before I can answer via my phone.

Believe it or not, ADT won't share your videos with law enforcement without a warrant

[deleted]

Impressive_Returns

you can buy a security camera system where you have the DVR/NVR at your home connected to a monitor.  You will also have a phone app and you can see your camera activity.  Depending on the size of the DVR will determine how much footage is stored before its over written.  Since its your dvr; its technically not uploaded to the cloud and you do not pay a monthly fee.

My previous house I did that as I did not want to spend the BIG money for a company monitoring so I purchased a Night Owl system from Sam's club and then also purchased battery operated cameras from Lorex. Each system had a dvr which i hooked up to monitors in my home and I could see live feeds and playback to previous recordings.  Also had apps on my phone to see live and recordings.  If anyone wanted footage; the only way they got it is if I was willing to logon and download it.

Educational-Wave-634

Find a local installer for the wires and mounting the cameras and if you’re computer savvy you can do the rest. If you do everything yourself and you have a newer computer you can do a complete system for under $1k at $100 a camera x 6 for Hikvision 12MP hybrids. Software runs about $200-$300 and network poe switch is about $150. External SSD drives are $150-$250

WannaBaCowboy

 They also can trick you into letting them have access. They use special phrases that make you consent without your consent.

Penis-Dance

Any one of the chinese DVR systems,  just don’t connect them to the internet.     cheap reliable and the video if not connected to the net is completely controlled by you

Creative-Dust5701

eleete

fascinatedbydragons

Why is it in that random pattern? How are they supposed to see anything this way?

MajesticNectarine204

MadjLuftwaffe

Jackburton06

Eeeeeeeeehwhatsup

probably ramped up following the massacre in '72

jaslyn__

Cameras watch the staff.. when I worked at Dollarama we’d get pictures of staff on cash with coffee or on their phones asking the manager to do write ups. 
Every-time the police requested video footage our DM just ignored the request to the point our store got fined for not turning over footage.

ReindeerSquare687

stores don't have direct access to their feeds or any way to access the cameras themselves, to get any footage off them they have to go up the management ladder to request it be pulled from head office and that still usually requires a police report or direct request from them. Most of those cameras are also meant to monitor the workers, not customers.

Tenabrus

Also depends on the year, I think it may have changed during 2018-2020 but I could be wrong

Aquarius777_

Cameras are for the employees not to prevent theft. In higher theft areas they simply remove the self checkouts, add barriers to the doors and have security guards on site.

Relative_Ear9464

Hey I actually know this one, I met the guy that has the cctv contact, fairly sure the data is stored offsite but that's as close of an answer I could get. Even if there's a local copy it's now best to move it to a backup so the local store doesn't need as much resources.

throws4k

Other than devising a plan to destroy surveillance after breaking into a store. What purpose would anyone have in even knowing? 🤔

Fuzzy-Ad-8294

Contrary to popular belief, major chain stores don't spend the money to record everything, save it, and then comb through everything. They definitely don't spend the money on AI bullshit either. People who say otherwise are just trying to scare you

chipdanger168

Lol! Are you planning to rob a Dollarama?

CostaBr33ze

I haven't been to a Dollarama that doesn't have a security guard in over a year now.

If your really struggling for money.  
But a cheap lawn mower and go door to door asking people if they need the grass cut for twenty bucks

odanhammer

Tell me you want to steal without telling me you want to steal. 

In all seriousness, it’s an in house security system, I highly doubt they’re all being watched at some central location when it’s a dollar store.

Bardown67

The Supreme Court of India is addressing ongoing issues with non-functional CCTV cameras in police stations, linked to concerns over recent custodial deaths.

CCTV Monitoring in Police Stations

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