Public sentiment is predominantly negative, with many homebuyers expressing feelings of betrayal, helplessness, and anger towards builders and banks. There is a strong call for accountability from the judiciary and government, highlighting deep disillusionment with the legal system and fears of systemic issues in consumer protection. Despite some support for the Supreme Court's directive to pursue fraud cases, skepticism remains regarding effective follow-through and recovery of losses.

Builders

Banks

Judiciary

Government

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&gt; my friend was now involved in an active investigation for fraud...  but I do remember that it was very believable... 

In an "FBI Agent" called me and told me that I'm now an undercover FBI Agent, I'd chuckle and hang up.

BaneChipmunk

They told him to lie to the bank to withdraw money. That didn’t stop him and reveal it was a scam? 

No he wasn’t tired. He was overconfident. A very common reason why obvious scams work.

tsdguy

&gt; After discussing what seemed like legitmate verification information (last transaction amount, etc.) 

Was the caller providing it, or your friend? Because if your friend was, he should have opened with "and how do I know you're my bank?"

stoatsoup

Hey there.  This sucks and I am glad your friend was spared the loss of his money.

Unfortunately I am reading this post because a friend of mine just got scammed and lost the money.  They worked him for weeks, and his initial descriptions sounded like routing account fraud that the bank had handled.  But it turns out that was not the case.  They were slow rolling him until they made the final hit today and robbed him blind.

My friend is a 75 year old Vietnam Veteran with PTSD and seems to have his wits about him.  Like I stated, when he told me this originally, it sounded legit and we even discussed making sure that it was really the bank he was speaking with.  He assured me it was, and therefore I didn’t intervene.  He works, does online shopping, buys audiobooks, and is fairly internet savvy, so myself and our co-workers mad the wrong assumption about him having the situation under control.  Now it’s too late.

What recourse does he have to get his money back?  At this moment he is reporting this to the police, and there’s not much more that he can do tonight, but I am desperate to get him the correct help that he needs. 

Any advice is greatly appreciated.  Thanks.

HerculesQRockefeller

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Smart, sounds like they are using scripts from actual banks now

NobodyLikedThat1

I've gotten similar calls and texts but Wells Fargo. I just laugh because I don't even have a bank account with any big bank

gramma1964

Your bank should already know your account and credit card numbers, no need to tell them anything.  If your bank ever calls you, hang up and call the bank's real number.

Smooth_Security4607

I would have any "Card Not Present" or "Card Present" transaction emails in my inbox well before anyone thought to call me about them.

DesertStorm480

[deleted]

They tried me a few months ago. They had all my information too.

Mr-Nozzles

I got a text from my issuer, telling me to call regarding a possibly fraudulent transaction. I was doing well up to the time the rep asked me for my PIN. I would not give it. I feared it was a scam. I went to the website, and found out it wasn't, so I went through the rigamarole of cancelling the card.

USAA should know better than to use the same scripts as the scammers do.

VitruvianDude

I was the other poster a similar thing happened to. Curious if your bank might be based out of Spain and whether the caller had a Spanish accent (I want to say the guy said his name was Diego). I also have to wonder whether they have X amount of information on certain people that they’ve collected from various breaches and they’re just trying to piece together whatever else they need to get what they want. Seems they might have more info on me than they have on you, so at least that’s something I guess 🤷‍♀️🫠

halfbakedcupcake

Gunnsmoke2055

I would always hang up calls from the "bank" and call actual number on the back of the card to verify, if it is real fraud department they should be fine to be hang up and being called back after

DanikFishken

ConsiderationLow2067

I got the same call yesterday, it legitimately sounded like the real US bank. I started getting suspicious, then the real us bank sent me a text message code and he was asking for that code. But in that text message it says “don’t share this code with anyone trying to contact you” and instantly I knew and hung up. He tried calling me like another 4-5 times, I know the real us bank wouldn’t do that. I literally told him “goodbye I’m calling the real US bank” he started screaming saying “you’re just going to talk to me again if you call them”. These scams are starting to get good I won’t lie. I’m ashamed I gave him my last 4 digits of social and spelled my name for him.

AnxiousTileInstaller

I would give him some random numbers and see what will happen next.

OverallBoot4148

Never say yes to any suspect caller, they record it for uses, call the actual number of the company.

Jumpy_Childhood7548

If you were paying to the builder this means you were contracted with the Builder. 

You have fulfilled your part of the contract.

If the Builder is not paying his Subbies - you are not liable.

If Builder has gone into liquidation make sure you are listed as a creditor with the liquidator - that’s the only hope you have to recover anything

WarpFactorNin9

At face value it sounds like your contract is with the builder and the sub contractors contract is with the builder. 
It’s not your responsibility to pay them. There will be a liquidation process that they will need to engage with to get any possible payment. 
Chat to the liquidator who has been appointed as they will likely be interested to hear about what you have paid the builder to date.

kilbixy

Were the subs contracted under you or the builder?

TupperwareNinja

You should not be “out of pocket” as you had a contract with progress payments. That usually means paying when completion of some work can be verified at the end of a stage when it’s complete (I.e.slab down, frame-up, roof on, windows in, gib done, plumbing in, ect.)

You do not owe the subbies anything else, it was their risk to subcontract to the main builder. 

Even if there is additional progress beyond the last process payment the liquidator will expect to collect that as part of the liquidation. 

If the subbies are unwilling to complete the works from now on under a direct contract with you, unfortunately you might need to secure the site and trespass them from site. I’ve heard of cases where subbies have not just removed materials delivered to site ready for install, but have ripped out things already installed as they see that as recovering something from the builder.  

You will then have to get someone else to finish the works.  This will be much easier if you have insured the works against non-completion. 

A director be personally liable if they deliberately flouted their responsibilities, such as trading while insolvent with no hope of recovery, and they took money or assets out of the business knowing collapse was imminent - like transferring property to a spouse or moving cash to a personal account. It will be up to the liquidator to look at the conduct leading up to the liquidation. Taking it further would mean a civil action which is (usually) prohibitively expensive.

chtheirony

The only claim against the director with a real prospect of success would have to be brought in the High Court and would be quite complex and expensive. 

The Disputes Tribunal has a jurisdiction to hear claims in contract and tort: [Disputes Tribunal Act 1988 No 110 (as at 05 April 2025), Public Act 10 Jurisdiction of Tribunal – New Zealand Legislation](https://www.legislation.govt.nz/act/public/1988/0110/latest/DLM133638.html)

The best claim would be for breaches of the director's duties under the Companies Act.  Usually the liquidator must bring those claims.  However, in some cases, a creditor can claim directly for compensation under section 301.  See a recent case that dealt with a similar situation:

[Beyond the corporate veil: Directors' duties in construction](https://richmondchambers.co.nz/directors-duties-construction-sector-malarao-interview/) 

[workspace\_\_\_SpacesStore\_6c7da61d\_d6c7\_493f\_ac37\_f254e14865a4.pdf](https://www.justice.govt.nz/jdo_documents/workspace___SpacesStore_6c7da61d_d6c7_493f_ac37_f254e14865a4.pdf)

In that case, two customers sued the director for deposits of $115,000 and $172,500. 

Unfortunately, it will likely not be economical to engage a lawyer to bring a complex claim over $30,000.

Virtual_Injury8982

Don’t waste your time , having gone through this process myself - this is how it when for me. spend money on lawyers , spend money on disputes tribunal, spend more money on lawyers, get a bit of paper that says you are owed money , spend more money on lawyers , have bit of paper entered into court, court can do nothing unless you either spend more money on lawyers and bankrupt the person / company. Alternatively use the courts collection services which is bogged down with people that owe fines ( also if they take money from said persons account and they have fines guess what’s gets paid first ) so yea someone owes you money - spend more money to not get said money. Super.

futurethe

As soon as they are put into liquidation the whole of the companies finances are in the hands of the liquidators. To succeed in a court claim you would have to be able to prove the builder is personally liable for the debt, rather than the builder's company.

nzrailmaps


Kia ora, welcome. Information offered here is not provided by lawyers. For advice from a lawyer, or other helpful sources, check out our [mega thread of legal resources](https://www.reddit.com/r/LegalAdviceNZ/comments/143pv58/megathread_legal_resources/?utm_source=share&amp;utm_medium=web2x&amp;context=3) 

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[Disputes Tribunal: For disputes under $30,000](https://www.disputestribunal.govt.nz/)

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If the builder contracted the subs then they need to pursue him/his insolvency nominee for payment. Assuming you are only contracted with the builder, their arrangement is between them and you are not liable for the builder not paying them.

GoblinLoblaw

You don't pay the subcontractors because you were dealing with the main builder. Only thing is nothing else will be done. 
I use to be in that line of work and got the same treatment with the subcontractors.

abdias02

As others have said it sounds like your contract was with the builder and same with the subbies. So they don’t have to complete their contracts for the builder now they aren’t being paid. BUT- make sure you get your subbies to complete certifications for the works they have done so far as they are required to do so incase you end up using other subbies and they might not be happy to sign off other peoples works.

Upsidedownintheditch

And that is why I refer to people with law degrees as "attack librarians"

Keycuk

Very nice, but I am way too petty and you can bet your ass I would have forgotten to let my bank know I'd been refunded 

herbertbeard

Can you please name and shame this individual and the false identities to the find a trader site.

Top work for causing him to have a very bad week.

Worldly_Let6134

You're very nice letting your bank know you got the money back. He needs a taste of his own medicine.

Hopefully, knowing banks, they'll still mess him up.

New_Libran

My_Finger_Smells_Why

Well done!! You not only got your money back but then had his account flagged for fraud, possibly with a CIFAS mark on his credit report meaning it’ll be impossible for him to take out a phone contract, let alone a mortgage or vehicle finance!

carl0071

Brilliant! These people need kicks like this to know people won’t put up with their nonsense

Ninjakoalabear

Johns-Sunflower

Cracking little read for a Sunday morning. Good job!

leeksausage

Yeah Ben, fuck you and your brand new Transit custom with extra lights and all the stick on bits you think makes you think it looks cool.

HiFiSi

Awesome but never pay for a job before it’s been completed, small deposit is fine if it’s a big job. Easiest way to avoid being scammed

Simonm16

Good job - have to agree that I'd have ghosted him the same way that he did to you.

buttonman1969

Mystrasun

Cholsonic

Delicious. Thanks for such a positive start to the day!

sloppy_gas

Would have been a shame if you forgot to ask your bank to remove the restriction

__Charlie93

Love ya mb.   Fuck you Ben, and the horse you rode in on..

Jonny2Fingers666

Nicely done. I had a similar situation with a guy who was meant to do fencing work for me. Ended up getting a CCJ against him which he didn't make any payments on, sent enforcement officers but he hid from them. Little bastard sent his pregnant girlfriend to answer the door. 

I contacted Action Fraud and they asked if I'd spoken to my bank about it. They said I had to have done so within 3 months of the event (this was INACCURATE). 

Honestly, I hadn't - I felt stupid, especially at how long it had taken me to realise I'd been scammed. We'd been bereaved, we had a small baby, and I had so much else on my plate. (And the scammer knew about these things too so I'm giving him extra bastard points). 

I was looking at my banks TOS for another reason when I saw that the three month limit Action Fraud had advised me of was entirely incorrect. 

So I spoke to my bank, nearly a year after he took my money, and they gave me a kind lesson on not being taken in by fraudsters, and refunded me the full amount. Yes I'd lost out on the small amount of money it took to get the CCJ, but he's now stuck with the CCJ on his record and I've got my money.

Let me add to your "fuck you, Ben", a hearty *fuck you, Billy*.

QueenSashimi

Icy-Individual8637

secretdojo

bread9411

Fantastic work and well done you. Thanks for making my Sunday. 
Love the description of your qualities. 
British success at its finest.

noramiao11

I applaud your resolve. May Ben never be able to get the cash out of his account for the foreseeable.

TheMightySwordfish

R0B0T_jones

wakehurst2

JustMrChops

Well done. I think you’re ‘lucky’ that he used fake details - otherwise it would have been tricky for the bank to act.

Sussex-Ryder

Legitimate-Whole1760

PiSciFiSquared

Brisball


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If nothing else works, I would probably ask a mate or relative to call the man in to quote a piece of work, and insist on an estimate on company paper.

Wando64

You could get a Norwich pharmacal order against bank for his address https://www.pinsentmasons.com/out-law/guides/disclosure-guide-seeking-norwich-pharmacal-orders

Pleasant-Plane-6340

Do you know what his vehicle/van looks like, or do you have the registration? If you have the reg you could go through the DVLA with a V999 form. 

If you know what his vehicle looks like and his postcode, can you go on Street View and see if you can spot it? Maybe that'll give you a clue to his address.

stewieatb

Have you tried the Companies House website? If he's registered (past or present), you may find his address there:

[https://www.gov.uk/get-information-about-a-company](https://www.gov.uk/get-information-about-a-company)

MineExplorer

If you have the postcode you will have the street, go to a local library and ask to see the electoral roll.

Ecstatic_Food1982

You can sue him individually as a sole trader.. Doesn't need a company.

That means you need to track him down. Various services like 192.com are paid for but may have these records. What does a Google search provide? 

Do you have a written quote or terms of service he's provided. Did that provide an address or even a guarantee or warantee on service? 

Aside from that I think you'll have an uphill battle with this one. There are rarely any regulations broken in terms landscaping and you'll likely have to prove he didn't provide the service with reasonable skill and care as a judge can't tell and there's no standards.

tarkinlarson

If not many numbers in postcode you could buy deeds for each to see if he owns any (£5-8 each?)

Think about how you're going to enforce this. He doesn't sound like the kind of person who is just going to go "oh shit, a court order, here's your money".

Every stage of the court process will cost you money which you'll only get back if he's traceable and has assets that can be seized.

Legitimate_Finger_69

If you have his postcode (and presumably know what he looks like) could you just not tap that into your gps and hang out there for a few hours. You should see the van and hopefully the guy!

MrKatUK

Give the court the details you have, explain you cannot get a postal address and he has responded to pre action correspondence by WhatsApp and apply for an order for substituted service by WhatsApp 

Simple.

In theory, you could serve court proceedings on him through an alternative method - i.e. email, but I would assume it may be possible to do it via WhatsApp. It would involve issuing the claim and then making an application for permission to serve through alternative means - from memory I think it's CPR Part 6. It's a little complex, so help from a solicitor is probably advisable.

TheSneakyKnobGoblin

Have you tried the phone book. A bit old school but if he has a landline his address might be listed (seeing as you know his postcode you can use the Royal Mail postcode finder to work out the road he lives on).

If not in the phone book you could always do your own surveillance, park up on his road and watch the cars/vans come and go, hopefully see which house he goes to.

You may also be able to get a friend to arrange for him to come and give a quote, and make a note of his vehicle details, would make identifying the house a lot easier, assuming he takes his work vehicle home with him.

Puzzled-Albatross-86

Go sit in your car on his road and wait and see what door he comes out of

luckybro1

Lloydy_boy

mydogmuppet

You could try a private investigator, not sure if it would break GDPR but worth giving one a ring and seeing if they can help.

or even [192.com](http://192.com) the trick to getting around the costs is to do a phone directory search in the drop down menu, then type in name and area and it should list those matching, then you can take his phone number and see if it matches one of the entries and bingo. if the number you have doesnt match one of those records(for example if you only have his mobile number) you could visit the addresses and see if you can spot him etc

AcademicMistake

Search companies house. This will show the director as well as the business address

Matyb2k

I think you need to keep in mind that even if you’re successful in your claim will you be able to recover any money from him if he doesn’t own a house or have other assets. Are you potentially just spending money with no chance of recovery. 

I’m surprise a tracing agent couldn’t locate him. I’d just get a mate to contact him asking for a quote and when making small talk try ask where about he lives i.e. are you local to here etc. Even if he just gives you a road name you’d be able to drive by one evening and see his vehicle parked up.

simbawasking

Have you tried 192.com? Youve enough info to find him on there

Broad_Operation_4585

Why not type the postcode into google maps and use street view and look for his car/van? If it’s not there look at historic versions

IsYourDogWaffles

Royal Mail address finder will give you a list of addresses for the postcode, Google his first name and street name see if anything comes up and if not just go check out the street in the evening see if you spot a work van.

itsapotatosalad

This may be a long shot, but can you type his name and postcode in to Google and see if the address comes up? I was able to do this with a colleague once to get their address to send them a surprise secretly (random I know).

notanadultyadult

The Supreme Court instructed the CBI to pursue criminal cases against builders and banks involved in defrauding homebuyers.

Builder-Bank Fraud Investigations

Why This Matters

Public Sentiment Summary

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