The public sentiment surrounding India-Pakistan relations is marked by frustration and pride. Many express discontent with India's concessions to Pakistan and call for a stronger approach against terrorism while simultaneously lauding India's assertive stance in recent diplomatic engagements. The discourse reveals a nationalistic fervor juxtaposed with an acknowledgment of complex geopolitical issues and the plight of ordinary citizens affected by the ongoing conflict.

India

Pakistan

United Nations



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GeoIndModBot

This time, the attack will likely come from either Nepal or Bangladesh, and it'll hit a major city because Pakistan is assuming that it has American blessing. But at the same time, I am sure that there'll be very little pressure on India given Trump has already used up all his goodwill and leverage on the trade issue and Saudi Arabia never had enough leverage to deter India, what would be a scarier possibility would be China heating up the border instead.

nergal007

I seriously doubt your hypothesis. Missiles going in on the airbase is one thing, but we sent in missiles straight into terrorist’s homes. Won’t dare to do it again. 

geodude84

Slightly off topic but I'm questioning what Suadi is gaining by partnering with Pak? Could it be that they want another nuclear state by their side as USA slips down the list of dependable friends?

SabAccountBanKarDiye

Completely agree with your opinion 
But I feel this time the stakes are too high for Pakistan and it's adversaries

Outrageous_Gas6684

Because now he is busy dealing with America. The biggest negotiating point of pakistan is not that they will go nuclear. It is that they will turn into Iran. 
While dealing with Saudi and America is on, pakistan is not in a corner. He has to play ball.

He can not send his agents across the border while dealing with other countries.

He equated pakistan to a dump truck, and now that truck is carrying valuable payload. He can not risk jeopardising that for the sake of irritating india. 
There is no upside for the next attack.

Equivalent-Fee-5897

I agree with everything you wrote. But,  
  
Did you expect the destruction of terrorist airbases at no cost at all without SEAD ? And if so, do you genuinely believe they would not have evacuated said terrorist sites with the assistance of pakistan military within minutes ?

Rare_Turnover_420

Wait you think India caved under pressure for a ceasefire? I thought it was Pakistan that reached out to India for a ceasefire? There was also widely reported tension between India and the US because the Indian government rejected Trump's suggestion that he pressured them into a ceasefire. Do you feel the Indian government was lying about this and that it got pressured into a ceasefire with Pakistan?

G20DoesPlenty

Right now I think Pakistan will focus more on bringing in other countries into their defence setup, especially strengthening ties with Saudi Arabia and maybe even USA. That will give them more backing and confidence for such moves.

LibranduMan

US knows how to use pak army and saudi money against India better than anyone else in the world

Pure_Garlic_7454

It will be a huge blunder from Pak if it happens soon. They have already let their 'Trump' card exposed and I don't think that India will feel any major 'Trump' effect this time. Muneer will have to look for more viable option to play in the backdrop of the skirmish. Recently India has sent a message to US that they would reduce the import of Russia Oil only if sanctions are lifted from Venezuelan and Iranian Oil (Source - Global Eye News on X). So, it won't be easy for Pak to get Trump along in it anytime soon.

Playful_Umpire_8066

I agree with your point but I don't think we didn't cause enough of a strategic deterrent. From Uri to Balakot and recently Pahalgam we have been raising the bar with our responses... And the amount of damage our missiles did in Op Sindoor was just too much. The sat pics literally reveal how insane it was for them alone. 

So yeah I do agree that pak will do what it does again and India can be diplomatically isolated but again we have China under who Pak pays it's allegiance too and china doesn't want the conflict so let's see

SeventyCents

2017-19? Like a decade before that we had much crazier designs. Gear knobs, slider, flip, slide qwerty, music keys, twist. Nokia, Sony Ericsson etc. were pumping out truly quirky funny designs. Now it's all blocks.

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Pakistanis don't want to believe that they are the bad guys. They are brought up with the idea that they are a country created by God and everyone else especially 2 countries are the bad guys who have always been jealous of them. In this scheme of things, they handle terrorism in the most hypocritical way possible. They try to justify terrorism anywhere else in the world by calling them mujahid or freedom fighters and the terrorism which affects Pakistanis are called khawarij or the real terrorists. This idea that some militia is good and other is bad is the real problem here and pakistani psyche can't make the difference because his or her identity is built around that idea

Animeshkatyayan

[deleted]

Pakistani here.

We know there is a terrorism problem. But the army controls our government. And the army is owned by the USA. The US/CIA even founded Pakistans ISI.

The Pakistani population (except a few) don't care about Muslims/Hindu bs, nor India. 

You have to realise only the elite wealthy and corrupt are protected. Most of the population doesn't have tens of millions to buy the Pak army's services.

In short, we are aware. Some areas in Karachi where my family is from have vigilante groups to fight terrorism.

But you can't expect the civilian population to go up against the army.

It's like telling your everyday Indian chai wala and everyone below middle class to fight the Indian army.

ahk786

It's pretty simple and has nothing to do with the people of Pakistan but with how Pakistan is run, The Army controls the government and also sponsors terrorists. How can the people of Pakistan fight or even vote against terrorist behavior when the army sponsors them? The army isn't voted in they control elections etc. The people of Pakistan have no power over their Army and ISI.   
  
All this is irrespective of who you blame for the recent attacks and is established internationally this is how Pakistan is run.

EngineeredVersion

When I was in Lahore on a business visit, some one and a half decades back, normal people never shied away from acknowledging terrorism. They openly had shown me the spot whete SL cricket team was assaulted, like a tourist spot. They had a fidayen attack atleast once a week during those days. One or the other. Shia-sunni to anything. 

I think today it is part and parcel of their system, and very difficult to even differentiate. It has been too much of a shame, that now it seems like "we are like this, do want you want to do".

no-regrets-approach

lets just say they are good at this propaganda stuff, we have noticed it every time it happens, they are always the first to save their image online, spread fake news and this is not random but coordinated. as of recent it was revealed that a shit ton of indian subreddits are moderated by them. now imagine all of this propaganda but you can also restrict real news, the citizens have about as enough relevant information as north koreans.

comment_eater

To truly understand them, you have to look at their whole situation. They never EVER had democracy. Pak military operates behind the scenes and plays the drama of elections, when they feel like it and directly take control in the form of dictatorship, whenever possible. Imran khan licked army boots and became PM, started to rebel in a small way and go against the army, so they picked the opposition party, who are eager to lick army boots. Even Imran is still writing love letters to the army, saying that he is ready to lick army's boots again and be a good boi. That is the most popular politician in Pakistan. The average Pakistani still believes that Imran khan is their only hope and if he gets out, he will somehow rescue their country from the clutches of the army.

So, in short, the Pakistani public is powerless, but they don't know that. All these years, they were forced to believe in the fairytale that their vote even matters. The only way the army MIGHT let go is when the people launch an all out revolt. But that will never happen because the army will just poke neighbors until they retaliate and then unite the country. Even if such a revolt happens, they might just decide to crush it brutally and go back to military rule.

In such an atmosphere, what does a person do? They just have to cope by playing along the political drama of democracy that the army is playing for them, believing or pretending to believe whatever they see. The reality is too horrifying and bleak. When Pakistanis discover the truth, they mostly stay silent and don't correct the blissfully ignorant ones.  Some courageous people do speak the truth, but they get constant death threats.

ManofTheNightsWatch

What we call terrorism, is jihad fi sabilillah for them. Simple explanation.

Viracus

They do. They have more bombings in 2 weeks than India in a year.

shriand

There is one major difference between Palestine and Pakistan. And that will be your answer 

Palestine when attacked portrays a sorry picture of itself. We are innocents, pure souls, helpless against a tyrant, hungry poor civilians etc 

Pakistan on the other hand has this huge superiority complex. Specially against India. For most of them India is a beggar country and accepting that India is superior is a shame. That is why despite us attacking them in 2019, they said some trees and crows were killed. Us attacking them now they claim they shot down our jets and they shot down our drones and they killed our soldiers. Like they just won’t accept that India can be superior 

Same goes for terrorists. Accepting that they have terrorists proves India right. I see some on Twitter now finally waking up that they get fooled by army but mostly it’s this superiority complex and their claim to have a superior moral stake too.

sapan_auth

Most people are probably busy just trying to survive and get by in their busy lives. Most probably don’t have access to or an interest in good quality political journalism that would communicate things like this. The political class should know this, but acknowledging it (and being impotent to address it) makes the government look weak, so they pretend it’s not a thing.

SuperannuationLawyer

The problem is, people do acknowledge all this here (except for hardcore right wing mindset). But does a common man have a choice? All these decisions or gimmicks from both sides are diversion tactics by politicians in your case and by military in our case.   
  
People here condemned attacks and were hurtful but the moment warmongering started against Pakistanis from Indian side. People got fed up from the insults or negative behavior.   
It's like you throw an insult and I will do same thing. And this circle just never ends.

Silver_Implement_331

My Pakistani friend says that there are only 5% of Pakistanis that support their army and government. The rest 95% of Pakistanis themselves feel trapped by their government while their army loots, rapes, and kills civilians. 

In the last elections Imran Khan won the majority, and he had a strong stance against the Pakistani army. They put him in jail for that. 

India should really destroy their army and guide them in forming a government and a constitution as strong as ours.

001000110000111

They certainly do have a terrorism problem. But this sort of behavior is nothing new. Most Indians fail to recognize that we have a Hindu-Conservative Extremism problem as well.

RightDelay3503

Deep down, they don't consider these actions terroristic. Imran Khan is on record saying that Osama Bin Laden was a martyr. And that is one of their more liberal Prime Ministers.

You're asking the right questions and I'm sure common Pakistani people are sick of things and ask these questions too and condemn it but they cannot speak out against their government. If it was so easy to untangle terrorism from pure religion, politics and society, we would have done it by now. The whole thing is full of generational corruption and trauma and there is no simple solution.

No_Pomelo1534

They have delulu system in place. Ostrich who bury his head so that nothing can be answered as he can't see but knows everything.

CurIns9211

Since childhood all they have learnt is propaganda

Big-Cancel-9195

The ones who are smart enough to realize that somehow got educated and migrated elsewhere. The ones who are left in that $h1th0le as mainly those who do not have much options in life.

Appropriate_Page_824

Cuz they are mentally incapable to do so, Brainwashed by their fascist regime !!

Man what you want us to do??? We chose our leader in last elections and they cnaged the results overnight.
Btw it is not like every street has a training camp. What do you think it looks like here. I have never seen any suspicious activity in my country my whole life. India harbors terrorists as well just like any other country for their own interest. USA created Taliban with help of Pakistan to counter USSR in Afghanistan. Pakistan created Mujahideen in Kashmir. Indian has BLA in Pakistan

akki-purplehaze420

From what I've seen online, the average Pakistani has been completely brainrotted by their country's "good terrorist bad terrorist" narrative. 

For most people, in India and around the world, when a Pak-based terror group has committed a crime, we know that the entire terror infrastructure is to blame directly or indirectly. There's no confusion there.

But the Pakis want "proof" because they want to cross verify whether it was one of their "good terrorists" who did it or if it was the "bad terrorists" before they decide whether they condemn the atrocity or not.

Sensitive_Algae1138

I’m Pakistani and would love to find some logical common ground.

That said - I feel Indians fail to recognize the tyranny they unleash on Kashmir and don’t understand that there is an active freedom movement is Kashmir.

When I talk to my Indian friends and point to UN reports they refuse to believe me. In fact my friend recently told me that Kashmiris in Pakistan wanted to be a part of India!! Meanwhile we have regularly vacationed in Kashmir while Indian Kashmir is on constant lockdown.

At a bare minimum shouldn’t the Indian government provide proof that the attackers came from Pakistan?

And please answer my questions. Don’t whatabout me. As a Pakistani I condemn 26/11 and the Pahalgam attacks. Killing innocents has no place in any religion. I also think on 26/11 Pakistan’s non response was unacceptable.

Btw - does any Indian ever wonder why India blocks all media from Pakistan but Pakistan does not? I can still go to India Today and Times of India and see the horrific beating of war drums - like it is a sports contest and not real lives at stake.

makisgenius

Actually Pakistani people do. Atleast the majority of them in Gulf here accept it. 

They are unable to do anything about it.

Left_Athlete_2619

Pakistan also belives thant 9/11 and October 7 are also false flag operations, but the moment they are stable they say how proud of these they are.

Same reason Palestinian do not accept that they have hamas' porblem. For them, its resistance

randomnogeneratorz

I don’t think it’s terrorism for them. They call it military.

Zepployd

2013bspoke

Dude it is simple that their country is built on theology and they don't have any identity other than that now you are telling them that this is terrorism how come they going to believe it. Every pak is equally invested in it and wears it a badge of honour. It is a war of theology. Army is just one institute left to pushing or gaurdian of that.

LeekAppropriate3285

As a Pakistani, I do believe we have a terrorism problem and a lot of people around me seem to think that too. I wouldn't be surprised if there's a link between Pakistan and this attack but the problem is there's no evidence being provided that Pakistan is linked to it. If this continues, India can blame literally any attack on Pakistan without evidence and get away with it.

Quacknt

Because if they accept it they have to find a solution. Itna bada kaam nahi hoga bhai, their core capabilities lie elsewhere.

Direct-Stretch7853

The country was born from brainwashing. The citizens are brainwashed from their childhood to believe India is bad and whatever is needed to destroy India should be done. After jinnah ..they were  ruled by dictators and the army. Fed religion  way too much to its people. Their army knew they can't fight us in numbers and hence they started proxy wars. Fringe elements became militant and then terrorists. Now the people can't fight them because their own money is feeding those terrorists and can turn against them if they raise their voices. They call themselves victim of terrorism but in fact they breed them.

Temporary_Tip9027

Their Holy Champak doesn’t allow them to accept

Dry-Feeling-6797

Broadly, desi culture asks of their people to be very defensive and to not iteratively identify and improve suboptimal elements. I see this frequently among the pauper class pakis and indians.

But you all are likely shielded from these types as the massive gulf between haves and have nots in India and Pakistan likely will not commingle on Reddit.

Two types of desis in America. Illegal and legal immigrants. The ones qualified to be here have zero issue with having a growth mindset and being honest w themselves. The illegals (unqualified, which is majority of them anyway) are holding back their community.

Until India and Pakistan figures out how to uplift their impoverished slum people, their countries will always have a concerning foundation.

TheKleenexBandit

The world isn’t as black and white as we wish it was. During the US-USSR the US government through the ISI supported the extremists in Afghanistan. The more extreme, the better. When the war was over those same extremists attacked Pakistani. Pakistan has lost close to 90,000 people in war against those terrorists. Pakistan faced a suicide bomb almost every week. The people have lost all hope, they know that their image is down the drain, they have no money, they have no exports, they have nothing. They are irrelevant in the global stage and all they’re trying to do is stay alive. They looked at the world mocking them repeatedly and they didn’t care. It’s like beating a dead horse. They don’t know anything about any terrorist attack other than from the news, although they feel ashamed, they can’t do anything about it. They’re powerless and they know it.

The army owns the country and the armed was extremely unpopular in Pakistan. But because of the recent threats from India, I’m meeting with Pakistani and it feels like they’ve revived from the dead. They’ve become extremely pro army and patriotic.

No_Aerie1632

 'Ummah' and 'Al-taqqiya' it's the same reason muslims of India support Pakistan as well. They will never accept their illogical theories of '72 hoors or river of honey, Jihad' If we have a civil debate I can provide facts and prove why they are called Cancers of the world.

aurenthesaviour

Read LeT's foundational document, you will understand what justification they provide for waging jihad against India. This is also taught in most of the madrassas of Pakistan. This document and it's teachings are widely circulated in Pakistan which leads to brainwashing of people there. 

https://christinefair.net/pubs/Why%20We%20Are%20Waging%20Jihad.pdf

krazy-gopalan

Our own fart doesn't affect us much but other people fart  will make us run, that's how it is.

Even we have serious problems with religion, casteism and even language now but it's our internal problems so we aren't much bothered with it but people from other countries are surprised with it that we are killing each other in the name of religion and languages.

The same thing is there, our terrorists are freedom fighters for them and they still believe Kashmir is rightfully there and they will have it one day.

For them even now Osama bin Laden is a hero.

Educational-Bag4684

Asif muneer is chutiya and he is basically trying to force this war on Pakistan and India. Honestly I doubt shareef wants this war or his cabinet. But let’s see #PKMKB

When a religion causes its followers(not all) to become extremely blinded, they will have justification for their every action even if they are doing the wrong thing. These people are the most stubborn people in the entire world. They will not accept and tolerate any other point of view or even try to accept and tolerate.
They are so arrogant that they think only they are saying the truth and others are saying lies. It is better not to waste time and energy to make them understand your point of view, otherwise your life and that of your family is in danger.
Pakistan and its citizens are not in a position to accept the superiority of India at any cost. Even the Pakistan army wants to win over the support of its citizens by attacking Indian civilians even after 'Operation Sindoor'. They will not back down easily unless sufficient force is used against them. The nuclear facilities of countries with a bad mindset like Pakistan, Iran and North Korea are a threat to the entire world.
Pakistan and its citizens cannot accept that they have been easily defeated by India twice after 1947. They don't want to accept reality and take revenge against India by supporting terrorists to cause damage in Kashmir and cause problems of every kind in India.

OnlyArmadillo5923

It’s not only Pakistan. It’s the entire Muslim world

Why can't Indians stop making such ridiculous thread titles and introspect for two seconds over why it is that their news channels are the only ines in the world who will literally use headlines like HOW MANY DAYS IT WILL TAKE TO INVADE PAKISTAN??!? You are literally so cartoonishly brainwashed that your media accounts for it in its over the top rhetoric lol

Most of terrorism in South Asia, actual terrorism mind you whereby civilians are targeted as a primary objective and not stuff like Kashmiris taking up arms because they're sick of your brutal occupation, has happened in Pakistan, against Pakistan, and fought by Pakistan.

Meanwhile, Hindutva which has executed actual terror attacks within India is not only mainstream and normal, but forms the actual Indian government.

It's you that has a terrorism problems. We do too but you are the ones that self delude

Zendigo__

The moral superiority is so real for Pakis. Especially online. Just over the past few weeks since the attack has happened, there's all types of people coming out of the woodworks. 
1. They're being hella racist for someone whose 4th generation ancestor was from the same land. Waiting for diaspora to come in and claim ethnic Hindu culture and fight saying "it's south asian bby" not Indian. We share a culture lol. 
2. The incessant need to be a victim when their country funded so many incidents across India and it's our people who are dead. It is obvious who has terrorists and intent to ruin India. 
3. False propaganda but also somehow laughing at us that we are brainwashed by Indian media. I'm sitting in the US, I have access to all news sources unbiased. Whatever claims Pakistan has made only exists on Pakistani news outlets. Nowhere else can these claims be verified. So many Pakis being delusional that their media is free from propaganda lol. Mahira Khan had the audacity to say IN A COUNTRY WHERE MY VOICE IS NOT SILENCED BY FEAR- sure, I think that's why Malala does what she does from the UK. 
4. They do not want Indians to participate in their subs and ban them. They even refuse to accept Pakis and contribute to our subs. Someone sent screenshots of Pakis contributing to all other Indian subs and they were heavily downvoted. It wasn't even an opinion! A simple straightforward screenshot that showed Paki contribution on Indian subs. 
Take this thread for example, they're being allowed to contribute, having given an opportunity to present their argument without being disrespectful or bullying (as unpopular and disgraceful their opinion might be AKA the martyr guy above lol). 
5. A child was killed- ok, have we received a real time photo of the deceased? Or is it doctored like most of their news? What about our 4 kids dead in Pakistani shelling across LOC? Your problem is with children dying or just your kids dying? 
6. Their superiority complex on reddit and horrible jingoism on tiktok. Illiterate folks coming on there writing Pakistan Zindabad under a video talking about our dead people. 
7. Them saying we're obsessed with them meanwhile their subs look like r india sub but with a Paki flag. We're neighbors at war, yeah it's going to occupy both our minds. Isme bhi ohohoho ye endians toh obsessed hai, hum toh chill kar rahe hai bas endians ko ban kar k unko gali deke hamare subreddit pe. 

If you're a Paki reading this, God, stop with this moral superiority on how you're better because nobody is buying that shit. Posting it on critical thinking sub because we acknowledge that there are idiotic, problematic and bigotry filled people in both countries. The world knows our countries are both fucked in their own ways. It's a sorry situation that terrorism has such a strong foothold on your army. Your army's very brave, correct? Have them fight terrorism inside and finish it from roots. I'll agree with how brave your army is.

SmexxyTaco

They named their country Pakistan. Literal translation is Land of the Pure. How can they do anything wrong?
Best example if misleading advertising.

NaturalPlace007

Leading a virtuous life is a goal set by almost every human on earth, Muslims very much included! But...

All religion demand one thing and only one thing - obedience!!!

All religion promises one thing we crave so much(yet its very very subtly about it) - righteousness!!!

Humans crave the emotions of righteousness!!! See how both Hinduism and Islam do evil things, I have mentioned evils of Hinduism because most of you can relate; from that, evils of Islam would be easier to understand.

\- After doing sandhyavandana and saying gayathri mantra 3 times a day I pledge my fervent obedience to god, I also eat only vegetarian food and observe fast on ekhadasi and I feel righteous to sit at the top of hierarchy of the caste system. If this obedience wasn't enough my manusmriti tells it is righteous for me to sit at the heights of hierarchy based on deeds in the past janma(a unproven concept) and hence I was birthed Brahmin and deserve to judge/prejudice upon others.

\- After doing namaz for 5 times a day, and observing fast on Ramdan, and if that wasn't enough Quran let me know that Allah gives me righteousness to kill someone for not believing in tawhid!

And that is how righteousness makes you delusional.

The repercussions being delusional as a follower of Islam is huge because the "rules of Islam are eccentric"!!! There is no place for 'Rationalism' in all religions. 'You do, then feel righteous' is how people roll these days. 'You think, then do' is non-existent.

Deep down,

we all want to feel righteous!

we all want others to be wrong!

but,

we all hate to be vulnerable!

We all hate to introspect.

We all hate to be accountable.

Most importantly,

we all hate to live with integrity.

This is why religion has survived this long!!!

Yes Pakistan is bad, but look at us Indians, we also have so many problems.

What are we doing deep down?

PS: If you made it through all of what I said here, kudos, I SUCK at writing! I bow before your patience!

No_you_don_t_

Some of them do. While their own propaganda machinery doesn't let their majority believe it. 
Like ours, we also refuse to accept so many problems that we have because we are shown otherwise.

iAmWhoDoYouKnow

Why white flag owners want to accept that they have security issues

Personal_Space_1548

Are you talking about the government, they're obviously hypocrites.

mental_hygeine

mephistttoooo

Both countries have IT pros. 
Difference of what T stands for!!

flreddit12

Has it ever occurred to you that it’s very much possible that Pak didn’t do Pehlgam attacks?
Why can’t all these chest thumping indians in all these threads think rationally for once?
Before posting all that gibberish, you should try to learn some non biased history of indian aggressions towards Pak since day one after independence from British. Refusal of handing over pre agreed fair share of wealth and resources, illegally occupying Kashmir, Junagadh and Manavadar, Dakkan etc. facts of which you are never exposed to.
A lot of the indians especially current hindutwadi generation think Pak has been doing terrorism without ever realising or acknowledging that India has been doing same with Pak since independence.
No matter what you blame Pak for, India has done equally bad things to Pak if not worse.
Still there is no where near as much hate in Pak for indians than what a lot of indians show for Pakistanis.
Regularly lynching your own countrymen on suspicions of supporting Pak. I have never seen or heard of that in Pak &amp; yes there’s people in Pak who are always praising india.
Most disgusting thing is the pretend superiority complex &amp; language some indians are always using (you’ll definitely be able to see in response to this comment)
No rationality, mentally unstable war mongering hysteria, never thinking that there are people on both sides who have nothing to do with attacks, terrorism, war etc.

_shy_1

It's not a problem for them but a special feature

sniffer28

It's the same mental mechanics that hindutva sympathizers use to deny that they are part of a growing problem. Its called in group bias and can cause a sort of collective denial that can cause these groups to morally disengage and find ways to justify what they themselves or someone from their community is doing, no matter how bad it is

stony_tarkk

Kyunki ho sab nalle berozgar aur suvar ki liya paida hue na isliya

iblis_66

The problem with living in a country like pak is, they can be either too patriotic or nothing at all.

Lost-Remove-6540

You should watch the new Karan Thapar interview with Najal sethi

fobfor8yrs

If you want a straight answer its called propaganda 
We dot  know bomb india when balochi militants kill Pakistanis even though your PM has past supported them and RAW agents with deputed military men are caught red-handed 

Now guess ban me from thread but you wanted a hoenst straight answer

zeey1

There's no concept of terrorists to them, they are jihadists, which ain't wrong in islam. 
Which is why u will see the UN recognised terrorists being wrapped in porki flag. 

We might have killed UN recognised terrorists, but for them they were their civilians. 

Which is why i hate even the civilians of Pakistan.

Centauri8008

60 percent of them marry their own cousins. You can imagine the intelligence levels of the products of such unions.

arkady321

It largely comes down to the same issue that divided this subcontinent — religion. They’re aware that their land harbours terrorism, but as long as those terrorists are targeting their enemies, they’re no longer seen as terrorists — maybe even as freedom fighters. At the core of it all is religion. I may be an atheist and a liberal, but I can’t ignore the fact that, to them, we’re not even seen as human beings.

Qetesh69

Most Pakistanis accept. The government accepts it. The army accepts it. What else do you want them to do? If there are 100 terrorists, you can disable/neutralize 95 or maybe 98. What about the other 2? 

Indias anger is justified but it wants to frame Pakistan as actively promoting and plotting this at state level which isn’t true and wants to break up and destroy whole of Pakistan. Thats not the solution.

Tnotbssoass

Why can't hindjians believe they are behnchods?

daliah123

Your Hindutvas are killing Muslims and Christians in India. Solve your own problems first.

Broad-Simple-8089

I'll try to break this down from the perspective of an Indian Muslim from the UK, who speaks to a lot of Indians and Pakistanis.

Firstly, there is a problem in Kashmir. The situation goes from calm to horrendous regularly and this is the main factor in cross border and local terrorism. People in Pakistan identify with Kashmiris, and Kashmiris in Pakistan identify strongly with Kashmiris in India. 

The people in Kashmir are oppressed. Now this is a chicken and egg situation. Indian government will say "stop the resistance and we will end the oppression". Kashmiris will say "stop the oppression and we'll end the resistance". 

Things that happen in Kashmir don't stay unfortunately inside Kashmir. After terrorists/insurgents/whatever you want to call them, after they lose family, they will attack in Kashmir, and a few will blame the central government and attack soft targets. 

Now Pakistanis generally know they have a terrorism problem. But it's internal with the military doing that to the civilians and then groups fighting back. Think how the Naxalites are in India? Pakistan has a lot of that. But the military controls the country and they cause all those problems. The average Pakistani doesn't hate India. Nor support terrorism. S/he will feel sympathy for the Kashmiri suffering (think how Kashmir Files made most Indians feel). 

Imran Khan was breaking the military and working towards peace. With all neighbours. But again, the military took him out.

MedicalDeparture6318

You're talking about a country which was formed for only one purpose ie. Gazwa-e-hind.

That country teaches their children that India got separated from Pakistan, that's their level of IQ.

No-Cold6

Oh my god, dear. Do you know that the victims are mostly kids and women? 

How do you want those women to live away from the families? Or kids to live away.

See dear, there is a reason why I am not engaging with this argument of yours—because IT IS NOT CONNECTED TO REALITY AT ALL. 

Please, talk about something else, because the basis of your argument is flawed, from the very beginning.

AbdullahJanSays

Some Pakistanis accept, some don't. The social critic &amp; Political scientist like Syed Muzammil Shah has argued how the insurgency and terrorism always existed in Pakistan resulting from historic grievances, territorial disputes, political ideological reasons and keeps affecting the masses up to this day. The destruction caused by this terrorism to Pakistan is more than that caused to India. I have been researching on this for over a year. 


‎Consider example of TTP terror organization. It originated to impose strict interpretation of sharia in Pakistan, oppose Pakistan's relations with the west, and take revenge for Pakistan's involvement in USA war on terror that started in 2001. Similarly, Al-qaeda originated with similar goal - oppose non-islamist or secular governments &amp; laws in Muslim countries (&amp; impose sharia). Some terror organizations like Lashkr-e-Taiba, and BLA were created as a result of territorial disputes &amp; historic grievances. Lashkr-etaiba opposes India's occupation of Kashmir and want to integrate the land with Pakistan. 


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‎These organizations develop due to certain geo-political reasons such as restoring control over certain land (territorial disputes) and such are beyond immediate control of even government and military to handle. Pakistan has done military ops in Balochistan to eliminate insurgency, and ended killing thousands of Baloch civilians along with terrorists (which caused more resentment and continued insurgency). According to indians, solution might be straightforward as they idealize it (use better surveillance, counter terror ops and eliminate all terrorists), it's comes with severe risks. Counter terror ops, causes loss of infrastructure and lives, which induces resentment and more grievances and cycle of revenge will undeniably continue. 
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‎Some social critics (like Syed Muzammil) argue for the need of complete re-education for the masses to prevent radicalization, extremist Political ideologies. But in Pakistan's context, throughout history, such was never feasible investment, as multiple other obstacles prevent that. 

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‎Secondly, the political idea that "terrorism originates &amp; continues from civilizations' conformity to it, and tendency to achieve extremist Political goals (which the west believes to be Islamic Political goals) seems to overlook the underlying dynamics that actually cause terrorism. 


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‎Historic legacies has always been the primary fuel to all extremism. The British divide &amp; rule tactic in the subcontinent gave roots to institutionalized religious divisions, laying structural and ideological foundation for all extremist organizations. Though, terror organizations that now plague Pakistan, and also indian Kashmir, have resulted from combination of historical legacy (British divide &amp; rule), and post-independence developments such as Islamization movement by Zia-ul-haq (1970-1980) and US and Pakistan-backed jihad against Soviet union (1980). Later, certain extremist organizations that were once supported by Pakistani military to aid in the wars of 1948, 1965, later turned against Pakistan, (internal extremism) and some of them keep resisting India's occupation of Kashmir, although they are no longer supported by Pakistani government and military. 


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‎Take example of all conflicts between pak military/government and BLA &amp; TTP. The public sentiment has always been against terrorism, and never it become part of national will (political ideology). In the past, when Pakistani government did support militant proxies, it was due to geopolitical/tactical reasons, for example, opposing Soviet's occupation of Afghanistan (1980). Never the support for those proxies become part of our ideological goals. Often times, the sectarian, ethnic, and ideological divisions within Pakistan, has caused some militant groups to fk each other (shia vs sunni militias). And the militancy never integrated as unified force in our national identity. Hence, it would wrong to say, Pakistan intends to export terrorism. The APS Peshawar massacre (2014), has resulted in the National Action Plan (NAP), which aimed to comprehensively tackle militancy and this indeed shows broad political consensus against terrorism.
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‎Eliminating this extremism is beyond the control of our government, and our military, as that has been embedded deeply in our society, partly resulting from British divide &amp; rule tactic, and Zia-ul-Haq Islamization policies. 
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‎Taking into account the entirety of these circumstances that have been always beyond our feasible political capacity to handle, it's seem unreasonable to put the burden of accountability on whole Pakistan, and on our people. We have suffered, are still suffering from this extremism, far more than India suffered from Kashmir attacks. I do not deny some part of accountability that some Pakistani governments and leaders hold in sustaining the radicalization and extremism. 
‎

Atourist09

I'm a pakistani
 While this may not accurately answer your question, there are a few points of context to consider.

1) military had historically brainwashed most of the population and hid its flaws. It is only recently that they have lost popular support, following clashes with civilians among other things I'm not going to bother mentioning here

2) Pakistan sincerely believed india has a hand in funding militants on our side of the border so its more of a blame game going on than anything. 

3) People have silently started to accept our use of militant groups for whatever purpose the army deems necessary. I personally believe they have done this in the past at least. A lot of times, pakistan has fallen victim to these same militant groups that they use themselves. See historical attacks throughout pakistan in the 1990s and 2000s. For the pahlgam attacks however, I don't personally see any reason why the army would go out of the way to do it considering pakistan has recently been very vulnerable recently and surely knew of retaliation from india's end cannot be dealt with easily 

4) you have to understand that the rhetoric in the general pakistani population is not of hate towards hindus or indians. We are not actively war mongering during peace times, speaking of citizens here only. However, what the leadership of the country states or what the army states is beyond our control. The last election here in Pakistan was widely believed to be rigged by the military so you can't really say we chose the people in power

5) historically, we have noted relationships with india go down near time of elections which could point towards political motivations

And lastly, you have to understand that a foreign country, especially one with bad blood like between us two, means that any attack whether its targetting terrorists or what not, is seen as a threat to a nations sovereignty which is why a lot of people believe pakistan has to retaliate ( i dont want us to, personally).

leastracistpaki

Why cant you accept it qould be easier to catch 6 losers from Pehalgam than killing 26 civilians?

higuys2345

So some odd 500 people who have never been to Pakistan are explaining in detail the geopolitical and historical issues of Pakistan aswell as the Pakistani public sentiment. Cool, wish I had this power 😔😔😔

throwaway98yh

I'm a Pakistani. I can say this on behalf of a lot of pakistani voices that never reach you - we genuinely feel for you. The lives lost in attacks like Mumbai, Uri, and Pahalgam were a collective tragedy. I understand why there’s anger and hurt in India. The evidence debate is unfair. That attack on us made sense - it was building up over time. 

I do have some questions though. 

1. What’s happening in Kashmir? How is it that Indians can feel the pain of terror attacks on their soil - but not the suffering of the Kashmiri people, who have lived under trauma for decades? After the media fiasco your country experienced just yesterday, do you still believe the state narrative about Kashmir? Your government censors almost everything now. You don't ever wonder why? Your mainstream media has become a global punchline. Your state doesn't even let other voices or thought spaces reach you. 

2. I don’t understand your alignment with Israel. Why did India send them aid? Why is Israel the only country openly supporting you while most of the world is urging a ceasefire? What do you think that says about your state? Also, there's a growing belief Israel is using India to denuclearize Pakistan - the only Muslim nuclear power. 

3. Why is India involved in terrorism in Pakistan? There are serious allegations - even from leaked UAE diplomatic cables - that point to Indian support for terrorist activity inside Pakistan. Why is that not part of your national conversation? [https://wikileaks.org/plusd/cables/09ABUDHABI981\_a.html](https://wikileaks.org/plusd/cables/09ABUDHABI981_a.html) If this is true, it adds a complex and unsettling layer to the broader narrative of terrorism given out by india. This isn’t new - it's the same proxy strategy the U.S. used in Afghanistan, now widely acknowledged as fact. 

Both the U.S. and India benefit from **plausible deniability**. They can claim to be eradicating terrorism while secretly supporting or turning a blind eye to militants if they serve a greater geopolitical goal. It’s a tactic of using destabilization against adversaries while maintaining a facade of morality and security concern.

One_Peanut_996

It’s because it doesn’t affect them - they attack india and not Pakistan

Sensitive-Feedback77

A Pakistani here. We do know that there is a terrorism problem; hell, our own chosen leader has been put in jail. Before these attacks carried out by India, virtually no one was in support of the army, and by that I mean it had gone to the extent that they weren't able to show face in public (at least the infantry and lower ranking people )  the illusion of them being saviours was wearing off. This operation Sandoor attack, however, has completely changed the narrative in Pakistan. 

People are now very vocal about supporting the army. Now, a lot of you have echoed that it's only a strike on terrorists, which could be true, I have my own biases, but there was collateral damage, including a child who had nothing to do with this. People were outraged, and indians on Twitter and other social media platforms sensationalizing the death of the child made everything worse. 

In my personal opinion, this operation could've been done in a more precise manner. At the end of the day, the Pakistani people see that you've killed one of our children, but not the terrorist responsible for the attack, so there is outrage and your government has put its hands fully back in the hands of the army, now they're in power with the people's support!

I'm just trying to communicate the Pakistani side of things, and I hope I don't mean to hurt anyone's sentiments. I would also want to say that no Pakistani, except a few radicalised maulvis, ever stands by any  Pakistani military involvement in India. Peace and love!

cause they don’t think it is a problem. they think they are doing their religious duty by killing kaafirs and it will earn them a place in paradise. not kidding. we Indians (esp Hindus) have not idea how they think. We think they are like us - want peace progress etc. having known many Pakis - nope - religion above everything.

kata-kaal-2567

We've a terrorism problem but we can't do anything about it. 

We've mainly three groups of terrorists, 

first kashmiri terrorists/freedom fighters. They're backed by ISI because kashmir is the golden spoon and everyone wants it. India controls its major part while Pakistan and china have some part of it. 

Second is BLA, hard enemy of Pakistan and army. They got influence after the killing of prominent Baloch nationalists by Army. 

Third are afghans/TTP, some governments/NATO supported them in the past but now they're headache. A lot of suicide bombings are linked to TTP. Army is cutting their losses and deporting them. 

2nd and 3rd problems are created by Marshal Law dictators, they was on a power trip.

SnooCupcakes4131

Listed to this speech by Pakistan Army Cheif. It will answer the question.

https://youtu.be/12oFh0dni0E?si=Obpm_kb86EXH6Ufw

Dinstl

The same way Indians do not accept their failure to safeguard their own people. Your politicians will wage war instead of investigating the culprit behind the attack. News media lies on your face and no one seems to punish them.

irtiq7

Pakistani here!

I am disappointed in Indians. You guys believe we are bad guys because your media, movies and government tell you that? Why don't you people understand that it's the government of the two countries that engage in dirty games, not the people! 

Also, you guys never accept your wrongdoings either. Indian state has been fuelling Balochistan insurgencies for such a long time (as we've been told by the Government). Kalboshan even got caught and is an evidence supporting our claims but we never speak ill of Indians! We don't say "Indins are evil and are supporting terrorism in Pakistan" because we know its not the people that are bad, it's the governments!

Now you may go on quoting Kargil and other misadventures but again have you ever given the slightest thought to the fact that Pakistani government has zero control over the military? Why is it the people that get accused always!

finite_vector

During the recent UN General Assembly, India's External Affairs Minister S. Jaishankar criticized Pakistan for its longstanding ties to terrorism, emphasizing India's rights to defend against cross-border threats.

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