Public sentiment surrounding Taiwan's potential acquisition of Rafale fighter jets is mixed and deeply divided. While there is support for military modernization in response to perceived threats from China, skepticism about the effectiveness of the Rafale jets and concerns about escalating tensions dominate the discussion. Commenters frequently express doubts regarding Taiwan’s options, highlighting logistical issues and the comparative effectiveness of different military aircraft, particularly against advanced Chinese capabilities.

Taiwan

China

Jedibeeftrix

The [original source](https://youtu.be/nvi6IjuyJKg?t=2507) in french that is not mentionned about those statements.

Taiwan has a total of 60 mirage 2000 but lost some and grounded the fleet at times.

SraminiElMejorBeaver

That’s a complicated sale. But after all the propaganda of the Rafale being inferior to old Chinese designs it shouldn’t be an issue, should it? 

To make it fun, just give India a re export license!

bukowsky01

EU-Best-Thing-Ever

I don't understand. According to Chinese/Pakistani propaganda they shot 343 Rafales and the Rafale is supposed to be inferior to Chinese tech. Why now India is willing to buy 114 new Rafales and Taiwan is now considering replacing their Mirage 2000 with Rafale? Was it just low level propaganda that everybody was recently buying on this sub?

/s 😏

Bagheera29200

&gt;India, Qatar, Egypt, Greece, and the United Arab Emirates all share the intention of replacing the Mirage 2000s deployed by their respective air forces with Rafales. This was indeed what Éric Trappier, CEO of Dassault Aviation, reiterated during a hearing at the National Assembly on September 24.

&gt;"The Mirage 2000 is at the end of its life. It is still flying in France, but it will stop because we have to switch to the Rafale. This is also true for all our export customers, who are in the process of switching from the Mirage 2000 to the Rafale," declared Mr. Trappier.

&gt;Finally, this is not the case for all Mirage 2000 customers. Thus, and unless the CEO of Dassault Aviation has caught wind of some indiscretions, Peru should announce, in October, the winner of the call for tenders it issued to procure twenty-four new combat aircraft. The Rafale is in the running, along with the Saab Gripen and the Lockheed Martin F-16 Viper.

&gt;But so far, the rumor has it that Gripen is leading the race. Even better, it has already been declared the winner... even though Lima has not made any decision.

&gt;It's worth noting that last week, Peruvian Defense Minister Walter Astudillo announced the purchase of twelve "subsonic" training aircraft, which are also capable of carrying out missions against drug trafficking. He added that delivery of these aircraft—which are unknown whether they will be new or used—will begin as early as July 2026.

&gt;Since then, there has been no shortage of speculation about the model Lima will acquire. In any case, the South Korean F/A-50 "Golden Eagle" is supersonic, so it is not a priori among the possible candidates. There remain the M345 and M346 from the Italian Leonardo as well as the L-159 Alca from Aero Vodochody. Or perhaps... the Alphajet, the number of aircraft of this type used by the Air &amp; Space Force for training missions having been halved between 2023 and 2024. The sale of 12 examples, in addition to the possible purchase of Rafale, cannot be completely ruled out.

&gt;In addition to Peru, Taiwan intends to keep its Mirage 2000-5s for as long as possible. Acquired in the late 1990s for 20 billion francs at the time, these combat aircraft remain effective. However, with the Taiwanese Air Force under heavy operational pressure from the People's Liberation Army, maintaining them in operational condition is difficult. And it may become even more so in the years to come.

&gt;In January 2024, the Taiwanese press reported that Taipei would release a budget of 300 million euros to procure M53 engine parts from Safran Aircraft Engines and that two other contracts relating to the MCO of the Mirage 2000 had previously been notified in the greatest secrecy.

Taiwan may also be interested in US tech instead.

Yes, I know, muh Trump, black mail, bricked devices, yada yada. The thing is, they need the US to come to their rescue either way. So suspicions of conspiracies around US hardware don't matter that much; If the US leaves them hanging, they will get annexed by China whether they fly Soviet era planes, French Rafale, or a myriad of F35.

ganbaro

Didn't Macron threw Taiwan under the bus when he went to China and said that [Europe shouldn't necessarily follow the US (in defending Taiwan)](https://www.reuters.com/world/macron-says-europe-should-not-follow-us-or-chinese-policy-over-taiwan-2023-04-09/)? In that same trip, he also sold China [several Airbus planes](https://www.reuters.com/business/aerospace-defense/china-signs-mou-with-airbus-deepen-aviation-cooperation-state-media-says-2024-05-07/). In either case, I don't see France selling Taiwan Rafale in any significant number.

TheoryOfDevolution

Anything is better than American garbage which come with conditions. And threats. And blackmail. And coercion.

Toolatethehero3

Oh wow weird why would Taiwan want to buy the sticky smelly French planes that got #ultrarekt!!!! by Epic best country Pakistan

A_Birde

[deleted]

Suddenly everyone has an opinion on this shit. Fuck war pigs

deadheffer

For the price of one Rafale, you can get 3-4 F-16s in return. Having multiple jets means you can run a rotation with less downtime. Sure Rafale outperforms but highly unlikely 1 Rafale can take on 3 F-16s at the same time.

ChilledNanners

https://preview.redd.it/l5x9gssbvvkf1.png?width=512&amp;format=png&amp;auto=webp&amp;s=da24a3d5184f5f41c389ce2cef09d2dfbb969c66

Just remembered the old newspaper ad for the Rafale back during Najib days. Turns out don't have the money for it thanks to 1MDB lol. Still not enough money anyway till now.

seatux

Why are we still talking about fighter jets when the more pressing matter is we have no AWACS at all?

krossfire42

Was the Rafale young enough for Gen 4.5? I thought it was a Gen 4 from how old it is. Not considering the fact that the Gen thing was actually LM marketing gone viral.

Nightowl11111

Rafale gotta be on sale now after Pakistan shot them down during recent skirmish lmao

karlkry

I think we should stick with the other asian manufacturer - South Korea. 

Our upcoming FA-50 should make it a good advancement to the KF-21. Another gen 4.5. 

Also this article really sound like a paid piece by Rafale.

memeranglaut

There's probably a reason rafale exports haven't been very successful. It's not as though the airplane is new either. Also someone got blowed up the last time Malaysia got into a huge military contract with the french.

SomeMalaysian

Why not just run the f18 legacy hornets until we can get cheap low mileage 4.5 gen aircrafts.

kennerd12004

A bit miffed that Northrop stopped developing the F-20 Tigershark which would’ve been a formidable Gen 4.5 jet based on the beloved F-5. I still think that the F-5 was our best investment yet.

Nafeels

How would the Swedish Gripen aircraft compare?

Main_Cartographer_64

Better spend the money on drones and missiles. JV with Turkey, Iran, China to learn how to build, maintain and operate them. Much more bang for buck than buying old tech that we can barely maintain, and where engines can hilang.

sumplookinggai

Nice. How much is it for a full strength squadron, including future maintenance and upgrade?

...

Nevermind. We keep using our 7 legacy hornet then.

PcGoDz_v2

Omnirole? That's straight away from the brochure. Fancy name for multirole.

pcboss00

I like the Dassault jets

Got to experience the Dassault Falcon flight deck and I love it

https://preview.redd.it/r80zvdkm6ykf1.jpeg?width=3024&amp;format=pjpg&amp;auto=webp&amp;s=30e28448a6514fc5d74371751eef85fa766e8b20

I heard from the test pilot that a lot of their tech is similar to their fighters so it should be interesting to see

Seanwys

Issues with Jet procurement is that it's tied not just politically but as a system, you can't just field the jets anymore, you gotta look at the parts, servicing, the AEWCs, the missile that you will be guiding it with. Who is going to develop the data link for us?

If we're looking at jets alone I'd say we're better off with the KF21 from the ROK. If we were richer maybe participation in the KANN programme from Turkey.

Priximus

xenidee

if we not in conflict with china at the south china sea.. china jets will be the best choice  
next best thing for us will be gripen compare to above  
get gripen and awacs

Namatiada

Rafales are breakfast for PLA. Already proven to be not effective against lower tier chinese fighters. Let alone 5th gen. But the most feasible jet for Msia nonetheless. Beggars cant be choosers.

piggylord1234

graynoize8

Didn’t Rafale got shot down by China J10?

No-Resort164

Apparentmendacity

the same jet that got shot down by cheap outdated Chinese J10s 😂

calrin

just get f16 motherfuckers. they are combat proven, they have flown over 13 millions sorties worldwide, over 4500 units built, plenty of spare parts, plenty of upgrades, and integratable with most western tech/armaments from US/EU/Turkey and they are easy (therefore cheap) to maintain.

Then supplement them with drones. Develop native capabilites so we can upgrade the fighters ourselves, just like Turkey, Japan, Israel where 50% of their f16s use their own indigenously developed parts, therefore cutting reliance/dependance on foreign powers.

Meanwhile partner up with other countries like Japan, Korea, UK, Turkey that are developing their own 5.5/6th gen fighters. But partnership is only possible if you are equals in technology/wealth/capability but you fuckers want to rempit, rasuah, romen underage kids so there is no hope for you. stay mundur forever.

gudfrid

chartry0

InternationalSir5510

Some nonsense especially for the f-35 which was recently denied alongside kf-21 and very most likely with India direct knowledge on the su-57 this one being totally out of the question too.

But otherwise the transfer for the whole assembly line would happen with the purchase of the 114 rafale and could also help to both boost the main one and give the possibility to eventually have the indian one make rafale for customers.

&gt;The Indian Air Force (IAF) is actively pushing for a government-to-government agreement with France to acquire additional Rafale fighter jets under the long-pending [Multi-Role Fighter Aircraft](https://economictimes.indiatimes.com/topic/multi-role-fighter-aircraft) (MRFA) programme, reported TOI on Monday.

&gt;The project envisions procuring 114 jets, most of which are intended to be manufactured domestically through foreign collaboration.

&gt;According to TOI defence sources, the IAF plans to submit the MRFA case for the initial Acceptance of Necessity (AoN)—the first crucial step in the procurement process—to the Defence Acquisition Council (DAC) headed by Defence Minister Rajnath Singh within the next one to two months.

&gt;"Government will take the final decision when the MRFA case comes to DAC. But yes, IAF has projected an urgent need for additional Rafales to stem the depletion in the number of its fighter squadrons," a source told the news outlet.

&gt;While the final decision rests with the government once the case reaches the DAC, the reported noted that the IAF has stressed the urgent requirement for more Rafales to address the decline in its fighter squadron strength.

&gt;**Strategic &amp; logistical advantages**

&gt;The IAF also projects a need for two to three squadrons of fifth-generation fighters—considering options like Russia’s Sukhoi-57 and America’s F-35—until the indigenous Advanced Medium Combat Aircraft (AMCA) becomes production-ready by 2035.

&gt;However, no formal discussions have yet begun with either Russia or the US, TOI further reported.

&gt;Officials argue that acquiring additional Rafales via a government-to-government route under the MRFA scheme would be economically and logistically more sensible and faster than launching a global tender.

&gt;The existing infrastructure at the Ambala and Hasimara air bases, which currently house 36 Rafales procured under a Rs 59,000 crore inter-governmental deal signed in September 2016, can accommodate at least one more squadron each.

&gt;"Both air bases already have the infrastructure and storage capacity to base at least one more Rafale squadron each," the source told TOI.

&gt;Additionally, the report states that the Indian Navy is slated to receive 26 Rafale-Marine jets for operations from the INS Vikrant between 2028 and 2030 under a separate Rs 63,887 crore contract with France signed in April.

&gt;Expanding the Rafale fleet would promote platform commonality and simplify logistics across the armed forces.

&gt;This push aligns with a recent high-level committee report led by Defence Secretary Rajesh Kumar Singh, which outlined a comprehensive plan to accelerate the IAF’s capability enhancement through increased private sector involvement alongside DRDO and defence public sector units.

Argh that website freaking sucks. Good for Dassault though; that'd be the first local assembly deal for Rafale right?

I wonder what India's assessment of the chances of Pakistan getting J-35 are...it's somewhat difficult to see them seeing Rafale as an acceptable counter, so perhaps this push suggests an expectation that they'll at least get AMCA into service before J-35 arrives in the Pakistani Air Force's service.

tree_boom

Good news for Paris.
In last news, I think that the supply of American fighter jets can be ruled out.
I would also rule out the Russian Su-57, as it is now exclusively for the Russian Air Force due to its new engine.
The Russians have a fully developed project similar to the F-35, called the Su-75, but no one knows the real protype
As for potential competitors to the French Rafale, I would consider the South Korean KF-21, but South Korea is heavily influenced by the United States, making a deal with them risky.

Any-Original-6113

Off topic, but Is there still no final word on the result of the brief air battle?

PandaCheese2016

Trump is not exactly helping US arms manufacturers. India is apparently opting for the French Rafale instead of the F-35. Thailand is apparently opting for the Swedish Gripen instead of the US F-16. Apparently, Narendra Modi and India have decided that the US under Donald Trump is not a reliable strategic partner nor trade partner. Apparently, Thailand also decided that Trump is not a dependable military ally and that Trump's US is not a reliable trade partner. What a surprise!

Ancient_Ship2980

Ilovekerosine

Sexy.

The Bloxk 70/72 are a pretty good value option for former F-16 operators, I gotta say.

DROP-TABLE-Username

I'm calling it now. We're gonna see 4.9 ++++ jets flying around in 2100. They're basically 5th gen minus stealth at this point, so for nations with little to no risk of combat, why not?

Berlin_GBD

superdookietoiletexp

YJeezy

The_Best_Yak_Ever

I look at this, and feel like its the equivalent of F-16chan looking at fat amy, and wanting to get butt implants to compete.

Wait...this isn't /r/NonCredibleDefense

Gimlz

How long have they been waiting for deliveries again?

SlavaCocaini

Ok-Witness-8801

I like that they gave the model a realistic loadout and not some massive A-G load that's technically possible but would never actually happen.

KickFacemouth

Hi, listen buddy, you go fight the j36 and I will attack the j-20, we both have a bright future!

Solid-Sort5950

Why does Taiwan need conformal tanks?  Greater loiter time or for attacking mainland targets?

bezelbubba

Some procurement guy in the ROC Air Force is on stand by, waiting for orders from his PLA military intelligence handler (likely a sexy hunny) on what information he needs to deliver regarding this jet.

Diligent_Bit3336

Now make it thrust vector, because we can and I wana see just how much torture the human body can take

ElbowTight

JAS0NDUDE

caseythedog345

It looks like a Viper, who has hit the gym.

Nekeia

Clay pigeons for the J-20s in the near future

b00st3d

I would like dibs on that model once the convention is over. I mean, do you guys really want to have to pack that and haul it away? I can take it off your hands... three fiddy... I'll throw in a case of Hey Song Sarsapirilla

luv2ctheworld

I know the source is kinda sketchy but at the same time it directly quotes the Dassault CEO, which is why it may be at least a little bit credible.

Otherwise_Young52201

This seems like a good example of a fairly pointless but expensive military investment from Taiwan, at best an attempt to purchase good will from France and Europe?

James_NY

bigGoatCoin

On one hand, the obvious response to European fighter sales to Taiwan is Chinese fighter sales to Russia. PLAAF still operates ~200 Russian Flankers (Su-35, Su-30MKK, Su-27UBK), not counting the ~450 direct derivatives in J-11 variants (too many to list). In the absence of political obstacles, China could probably find a handsome profit reselling old airframes to a Russia who needs them a lot more than China does. Not even counting stuff like J-16, which is better than anything Russia has ever produced. Shenyang is still running that line at low capacity too, but no chance in hell they get approval to export those. 

On the other hand, Rafales in Taiwan are so negligble that even if the sale goes through, I wonder if Beijing would bother making anything more than a token protest.

teethgrindingaches

Taiwan is exploring acquiring Rafale fighter jets to bolster its air defenses amid rising tensions with China.

Taiwan considering Rafale fighter jet acquisition

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