Public sentiment is primarily critical towards Air India and Boeing, reflecting outrage over safety concerns, skepticism about accountability, and grief for the victims. While some comments express gratitude for the sole survivor, the overarching tone highlights distrust in aviation safety protocols and calls for rigorous investigations.

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Although this isn’t a 787 setup, the point still stands as the fuel control switches work the same. The designers/engineers make every switch and button with purpose. They make switches that are normal and used frequently very easy to flip. Stuff like fire suppression and fuel control switches they make with detents so they’re not flipped accidentally. Just like the gear system, you have to pull the gear knob out and then up/down to activate it.

__Patrick_Basedman_

This is not a 787 though, but your point still stands and I agree

Aggressive_Let2085

Bro its crazy how mean people are in THIS subreddit, these comments are crazy😭

Neat-Ad8056

apparently the preliminary incident report shows the fuel cutoff was flipped just after rotation with engine 1 then one second later, engine 2.   it was absolutely deliberate.   The other pilot quickly flipped them back on and attempted a restart but by then it was too late.   

The report also mentions a desire to involve psychiatric people in the investigation:  this sure does look like one of the pilots was a complete asshole and suicided himself along with everyone else.

USSSLostTexter

I'm not sure how you accidentally turn the fuel off to both engines on takeoff.

grifinmill

A lot of people are postulating this could be a brain fart or “muscle memory”.

The FO was flying and just lifting off. He’s at his most distracted and isn’t going to reach down and flip off both fuel switches.

The Captain has decades of experience, and many hours in this aircraft type. One of his main jobs would be wheels up - which he doesn’t do and doesn’t even do when they realize they are in trouble (reduce drag or avoid rooftops etc). He doesn’t touch the handle.

So he systematically (and quickly) turns off the fuel switches, at the worst possible moment in time to prevent likelihood of recovery, while the FO is most distracted.

And then - this is the kicker - he’s so lost in this “brain fog” that when the warnings and engine sounds react to the fuel cut off, he doesn’t say a word (like “shit!”) and *immediately* turn them back on. They are off for ten seconds.

And if the FO had turned them off by mistake, would this extremely experienced Captain have ignored that and gone back to reading his magazine? Or would he have immediately turned them back on? 

Not until the FO asks “why did you cut off?” does he react at all, and even then it’s to deny it. Not “oh my God” or any sort of indication he realizes he made a devastating mistake. 

So while the FO is desperately trying to save the plane at the controls, running on RAT power, are both switches turned on quickly? No. They are turned on four seconds apart. Suggesting the poor FO is the one doing it while also trying to prevent the crash. 

The report doesn’t say who did what. But does the above make more sense than someone in this cockpit doing an “oopsie?”.

Relevant_Fuel_9905

Erico360

Those aren’t 787 switches.  The 787 switches are at least 3x bigger than that.  They’re actually more like knobs than typical switches.

Miserable-Lawyer-233

What if there’s a fault in the circuits so the switches never moved but the circuit activated and thus it appears in the logs? Is that even possible? Like liquid or something closing the circuit

FedesMP

What is that a 787 for ants? It’s even harder in the real 787/777. Big solid switches with a heavy duty spring.

Insaneclown271

Welp, it seems we are yet again against another case of pilot suicide

RedFlr

Definitely not an accident, but could have been an unconscious mix-up in procedures (fuel cutoff vs. landing gear retraction). We’ll likely never know the full truth, even with thorough investigations into both pilots. That being said, the full CVR transcript would be helpful. I would anticipate: 

“Positive rate.” “Gear up”. (Sound of two clicks) (sound of Master Caution) (sound of engines spooling down) “Why did you cutoff?” “I didn’t” (sound of two clicks) 

Again, could be a deliberate action, knowing that there is no suitable landing spot of the departure end of the runway, but could be a procedural mix-up.

ltshiroamada

Just thinking as a layman, why would there not be an alarm if this happened?

swalker6622

Desperate_Set_7708

Not a 787 - and it’s important because the 787 has additional metal triangular guards on either side precisely as extra measures to avoid accidental contact with them in addition to the lock and detent

Swisskommando

BodybuilderSalt9807

They said fuel was cut not engine cut, unless Im missing something.

Simple-Sun2608

I would say that it's highly unlikely but not impossible to switch those off by mistake. People do dumb things sometimes, because they're distracted; because they're tired; because they're stressed. See TransAsia flight 235. There, the pilots responded to a failure of the number one engine by shutting down the number two engine. That required some combination of pulling levers and flipping switches, each of which was boneheaded. Different scenario of course, but the point is that people, pilots included, sometimes accidentally do really stupid stuff. Ask any SIM instructor and he or she will tell you some stories...

Which-Addition-267

Why should engine cutoff even work mid-flight?

skillrat

It's not impossible to do this by mistake. It's impossible to accidentally hit them and make them move. But a human being acting on muscle memory could easily switch these if confused or not thinking straight. These are far too easily switched with one hand and too close to main controls. They should have a gate, or a second switch, or be in an awkward place so as not to be accessed so easily.

DifferentTrain2113

Same switches on my 1987 John Deere garden tractor for the 2 ptos

One-War4920

Since the incident i think 67 m8llon of people learned how fuel swithes on Boeing 787 works ...next ,flaperones !

[deleted]

In the initial accident report that was released to the public they found the wreckage of the throttle quadrant the fuel CUT-OFF switches where in the RUN option although later in the report EAFR reported that they where transitioned from RUN to CUT-OFF from both engines where there was exactly 1 sec between both engines transition then they transitioned back from CUT-OFF to RUN.



I ain’t no expert buuutttt

Smooth_Rub7884

So in other words the crash was intentional? 😳

LooseRaccoon85

MD-80-87

Zealousideal_Order_8

The narrative of this tragic crash seems to be getting even more grim.

lewisfairchild

CPG135

Why don't they get a pop up message? "Are you sure you want to unsubscribe from 'fuel' marketing emails?"

jared_number_two

We get it
....... It's been posted 1,000 times. However, this is not the same aircraft. Similar function, totally different aircraft.

Kooky_Aardvark_5965

maybe the board computer should say loud and clear and for three times "engine left/right fuel supply turned off" so it wont go unnoticed

AustriaModerator

AlternativeEdge2725

My understanding is that Honeywell did not originally install detent on those switches. Boeing later advised it be done but Air India, and that plane, did not add detent because it was not required. So this is not how they worked in that particular plane unlike those in American fleets.

Edit: Please disregard. This comment was based on comments made to me by a pilot who stated this info was in the preliminary report.

DanishWhoreHens

Now this will be the military side of me, I realize this is not the same model, but do civilian planes have red guarded switches, I understand the toggle, but military planes have a toggle and a red guarded switch

xen137

It's not literally impossible. They put out a safety bulletin THEMSELVES about the possibility of this switch not fully locking in and becoming dislodged. It was deemed not a risk but perhaps we now have additional investigative data to revisit this issue.

Coreyporter87

When is it my turn to post a video like this? Do I have to take a number

Ok-Refrigerator-9278

Thanks..... I read a description of these switches, but seeing them really adds clarity

zonesaplenty

So was this an intentional act by someone in the cockpit?

highroller886

I'm not a nervous flyer, but whenever I do get a little jitters I remind myself that there's two people flying the thing and their will to live will always mean that they would do everything possible to keep themselves and all of us safe. 

If it's true, what we're all guessing happened, I hope whichever person pulled those switches experiences an eternal hell. I don't even believe in the afterlife in that way, but I hope it's true in this case, if one if them really shut down the engines.

Better-Chest-3414

In India people are spinning off so many conspiracy theories rather than accept the facts of the investigation because apparently an Indian pilot won’t conduct things 

Some are even blaming the CIA, etc 

Some call it Boeing vs India 

All because of hyper nationalism

Brown-Rocket69

Pale_Natural9272

Has anyone said it was a mistake? Clearly all these videos prove is that it was shut off intentionally.

Apprehensive_Ear7309

Why is this fuel cutoff switch needed at such a convenient location on a plane? I mean my car engine needs to be turned on and off from time to time but I don't need the ability to cut off fuel.

sdnomlA

Dumb question: why would there be an option to fuel shutoff when the plane is in motion?

Debt-Cheap

Ok, so is there a way for them to sit in the on position without quite clicking into place?

In this video they lift up and slide from bottom to top, can someone replicate this and see if they will sit close to the top without actually clicking into place or automatically falling back into the off position?

What I’m thinking looking at this action is though human error is they weren’t quite slid all the way up and clicked into the on position then vibrated back into off 3 seconds into take off.

SonicYOUTH79

But you got to do it during the take off though

res0jyyt1

There have been cases of pilots intentionally ceashing planes in the past, people are speculating that this may be a case of that which is very disturbing. I do not think there was any mechanical or electrical failures in this case. Just so sad for the families of the victims and even more disturbing that this was potentially caused by a mental health issue.

Least-Complaint-6566

Of course it wasn’t pilot error, it was pilot intent.

MavenAloft

"If true, this points to a failure in the ground-air logic system, which determines whether the aircraft is airborne. The system will not allow the gear to be retracted if it believes that the aircraft is still on the ground."

If you read the preliminary report it clearly states that the plane entered air mode it didn't have any fault where it thought it was on the ground, it worked perfectly. This is impossible.

"Meanwhile, the most critical aspect, which is FADEC (Full Authority Digital Engine Control), remains conspicuously under-reported."

2 fadec failures within 1 second of eachother with so much redundancy makes this very, very unlikely. Safran FADEC 3 has over 1 billion flight hours across most commercial airliners if you have flown on a airbus or boeing, chances are this sytem is being used. This would have happened before if this was the issue.

"Could the EAFR itself have been compromised? In today’s world of artificial intelligence, even a pilot’s voice can be convincingly mimicked."

Do I even have to say anything...

Having to say the flight data recorder was sabotaged is insane. There is no need to do this. Boeing or GE Aerospace would never do this because this would mean either would have thousands of faulty equipment that they want to cover up and keep flying.

It's pretty obviously intentional.

Immediate-Annual5172

When you have to resort to saying that the pilots' voices could've been AI generated, you lose me. 

I get it. As a member of the flying public, I don't want to believe that pilots will intentionally crash planes. But trying to come up with an elaborate software glitch that caused the engines to shut down (and if I'm reading this guy's article correctly, this software glitch caused non-automated switches to somehow be moved into the cutoff position?) strains credulity. The PF looked over, saw the switches were in cutoff, asked why, and the PM said he didn't do it. So we're to believe the software activated a non-existent automated lever that physically moved the switch?! Not to mention, the movement of the switches is likely to be audible on the CVR. 

Utter nonsense.

InspectorNoName

Glad he’s a FORMER pilot for Air India.

NeedleGunMonkey

Oh for fucks sake.

Scenario 1 - theorises an air/ground issue with the aircraft thinking it's on the ground.

Preliminary report pg 14:

&gt;The aircraft air/ground sensors transitioned to air mode, consistent with liftoff at 08:08:39 UTC.

The aircraft recorded moving to air mode, therefore this scenario does not meet the established facts

Scenario 2 - theorises gear not selected up due to "pilot distraction"

Again, Preliminary report pg 14:

&gt;The aircraft achieved the maximum recorded airspeed of 180 Knots IAS at about 08:08:42 UTC and immediately thereafter, the Engine 1 and Engine 2 fuel cutoff switches transitioned from RUN to CUTOFF position one after another with a time gap of 01 sec. The Engine N1 and N2 began to decrease from their take-off values as the fuel supply to the engines was cut off.

Engine rollback 3 seconds after liftoff is, to put it mildly, one hell of an attention getter.

The whole article is conspiracy pedalling nonsense that misunderstands the purpose of a preliminary report, either wilfully or out of sheer incompetence. 

  
This is on a level with the avherald editorial that was issued yesterday.

Blythyvxr

LOL! Dude. No matter how many discredited Indians express BS opinions about the mass murder of all those poor people on that flight, the facts are indisputable. Just stop with the conspiracy nonsense. This isn't a forum for that shit.

snoromRsdom

Too many former pilots want a piece of the influencer pie. He's a Patrick Smith kind of guy - sounds reasoned but really isn't, they just want a piece of the limelight.

I don't think it's meaningful at this moment to discuss this crash. We all need time to gain perfectly normal perspective that we do not have at this time; in the aftermath of many airline accidents, certain truths are being held back from the public that won't be added back into your knowledge until 10, 20 years later.

upbeatelk2622

Did something like this happen?  
  [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fl1kUudq7Tw](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fl1kUudq7Tw)  
  [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OLxLN3osS1Y](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OLxLN3osS1Y)

NoAardvark5851

Not pilot error it’s murder suicide 20000 percent plane was working fine and fuel switches too

Far-Hunter2057

I'm a mere passenger of commercial aircraft. While I agree that the reference to AI-generated pilot voices seemed to lose credibility at the outset, I would love an explanation in plain language/non-aviation terms that rebuts some of the main points he makes in the article. Is he correct about the 2-second timing of the APU opening? Is there significance to the timing of the RAT (if in fact that's even correct?) What is he trying to say about deceleration? Are those reports he referenced generally part of the investigation? I thought I had understood that what was released so far was quite preliminary. Lastly do you think he really believes this theory or is he just trying to get views. Thank you.

secondtimearound2020

Jesus that's terrifying. It gets barely any momentum at all. Really unnerving the way it just floats back down.

sol_1990

So it looks like it lost power and just didn't have the altitude to do anything at all.

TheManWithTheKrag

PixelCortex

I’m holding judgment until the YouTube crash investigation team comes up with the facts

Basic-Week-9262

Pretty sure flaps are there - it starts climbing fine, but then looks like engines just lose thrust mid flight?

WorkingCalendar2452

Am I correct in thinking there should be enough thrust from 1 engine to reach safe altitude in the event of an engine loss after takeoff?  What are the odds of a dual-engine failure?

SortOfGettingBy

Absolutely insane. Just shouldn't happen at all with so much redundancy.

daveirl

Can you imagine being air traffic control and watching this happen? I feel terrible for all involved.

Bowling4rhinos

[https://www.youtube.com/shorts/1055l0B9dm0](https://www.youtube.com/shorts/1055l0B9dm0) what it should look like to take off. Engine loses thrust couple seconds in. Maybe the first climb is also too slow already? difficult to say...

25tidder

I wonder if it’s a full power failure, and what is that dust smoke as it begins to clime? RIP to those lost.

The_Ghost_of_WWE

I dont hear anyone talking about a loud noise. The lone survivor reported that 30 seconds after take off there was a loud noise and then the crash happened

SignificantSound7904

787 lost both engines simultaneously? Someone fucked up.

SingleDigitVoter

Is the dust cloud just engine thrust or was there a tail strike?

ashypants82

Take offs are the thing I’m most afraid of being when I’m flying, I always think that the plane it’s gonna lose power and fall, this just reinforced my biggest fear. Yikes.

garlic-_-bread69

God, poor bastards barely got off the ground. At least it was probably super quick.

TheCarloHarlo

I guess I"ll wait for the Air Crash Investigations episode to come out

DistractedByCookies

As an airline captain one issue I haven’t seen discussed at all is the landing gear. Nobody is mentioning something so glaringly obvious. Airlines typically retract them within seconds of becoming airborne (positive rate). Especially if you need climb performance.  Gear remained down throughout the entire sequence. 

As a seasoned aviatior I know better than to speculate until authorities have a preliminary report. But the gear tells a huge part of what might’ve occurred. 

jagerma

Those poor people.  And even more sympathy for their surviving family... God dayum...

short_bus_genius

Kind of looks like the flaps aren’t down

My literal night mate, and have thought about that way to many time when watching other planes take off. “What if it doesn’t fly”. Fu•k!

Edit: I’m leaving it, you all know it’s suppose to be; nightmare

FunctionalBoredom

SoupieLC

That 100% looks like a flaps up takeoff 😳

shoksurf

Shidima

This feels like the slowest take off I’ve ever seen. Amazed it got off the ground

ivorybloodsh3d

Hey! I'm an ex air india crew and this was a frequent aircraft that I'd fly. This aircraft has had issues for YEARS. Literally years. The crew, pilots, engineers, literally everyone has always mentioned about it in the log book. But the company didn't have a spare Dreamliner for their most precious Gatwick sector. Which is why we were always, made to fly this aircraft. I've myself had an engine failure on this aircraft. Thankfully we landed back safely. It was a similar case where we took off and immediately landed back without being in air for even 30 mins.
Here, no staff but solely the company is at fault. But the company won't let any staff talk about it on a public channel. They'd rather blame the staff and not take accountability.—- I found this on Instagram

Wonder if the flight computer was programed with the wrong take off data such as the amount of fuel or weight on board and the aircraft responded with lower take off speed or flaps position?

colin8651

Looks like they didn't have flaps deployed. Yikes.

NoRagrets4Me

At what stage do you typically see landing gear starting to retract? I notice that they never move here, but that could be due to the relative short length of the entire sequence.

JPMoney81

Overran the runway, struck runway lighting, lost both engines, and then struggled to maintain altitude?

That cloud of dust after rotation makes me think it was not on a commonly used part of the field...

ArgonWilde

I can't believe someone survived that. Incredible.

soulure

crasher925

That is loss of thrust or loss of lift or loss of a control surface.  I'd bet engine failure, full loss of flaps, or maybe an elevator surface failure.  That is such a gentle loss of controlled elevation while keeping the the thing flat.  It is such a symmetric loss of altitude.

I'm going to bet on tail elevator failure.  I'll put it at 5:1 odds.

skovalen

It looks like for whatever reason they didn't develop enough power and didn't abort the takeoff quick enough. They used every inch of the runway which shows up as the dust cloud at the end and never developed enough speed. 

Probably a combination of flight configuration,  mechanical malfunction and pilot error.

EDIT: Also, looking at the runway, it doesn't have taxiways to the end, so they had to back-taxi to a turnaround point. I'm interested to see if they went to the one at the end of the runway or the one 2,500 ft. further down.

bk553

Looks like they got behind the power curve towards the end there, especially when they raised the nose.

DPC128

Shamrock5

It seems to wobble quite a bit when the pilot starts rotating?

NoFewSatan

kingNero1570

Some are saying that the copilot pulled the wrong lever. Instead of the gear up he retracted the slats . Or something like the Gatwick incident.

fu2nexus6

That video is way too clear. OP needs to play it back on another screen, record that, play that recording on another screen, record that screen, play THAT back on ANOTHER screen and record THAT screen, THEN upload it.

bdfortin

The pilots had time for a mayday call which leads me to believe they were not airborne and past takeoff abort.

Mistake-Choice

An Air India flight faced a significant mid-air incident during landing, triggering safety concerns involving Boeing 787 aircraft.

Air India Boeing 787 Emergency Incident

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