Public sentiment regarding the Gaza conflict is highly polarized, reflecting a mix of outrage over Israel's military actions and calls for Palestinian rights, countered by defenses of Israel's right to self-defense against Hamas. Many commenters express deep frustration with international leaders for perceived complicity in the humanitarian crisis, while others criticize Hamas for its governance and actions leading to violence. The overarching feelings of despair, anger, and skepticism about peace proposals dominate the discourse.

Israeli Government

Hamas

International Leaders

Israel will try to sabotage the plan somehow, and shift the blame on Hamas. Don't know how and when, but guaranteed to happen, unless Trump stops backing Israel.

Confident_Ease5562

i really hope so, but israel is so unreliable you never know what they'll end up doing

newMauveLink

In a week or two, or in a few days or hours, Israel will accuse Hamas of breaking and violating the "agreement." They've done this time and again for years.

TheBalanceandJustice

Give it like 3 days then Israel is gonna bomb some apartment and claim Hamas broke the agreement 

It’s a forever war Israel wants to continue so that they can justify and finish their genocide 

Theres legit 0 peace that can be made with a state like Israel, The only way peace can be made in the region is with the collapse of Israel

PokeM1000

I’m going to stay no. This is like the tenth time since oct 7th a deal has been announced. And like the millionth time since the 1940s

henningknows

Just another recycling of deals. This is only over when Trump stop giving vague statements against Israel so they can abuse it later. When Trump give exact date, time, and consequence to Israel for breaking deal he made then I truly believe it over.

20July

This is just because there's global outrage. They will wait for it to calm down and finish the job

Extension_Maize6048

So, the "war" ends and Netanyahu goes to jail?  Not gonna happen.

In Israel, a ceasefire means refraining from bombing for a couple of days before blaming Hamas for "threatening our security" so they can continue the genocide.

33northconnection

Imagine Hamas announces that the hostages were killed as a result of Israeli attacks, and then Israel uses it as an excuse to continue 😂😭 I wouldn't be surprised ngl. Nothing surprises me anymore

If it's over Bibi is doomed

He cannot allow that to happen, that's the main point here

Paulista666

No
If Netanyahu is onboard, then you know what that means..

woody898

AnonymousZiZ

Another lollipop from crusaders to muslims

nargisi_koftay

I hope so, but I wouldn't count on it. Israel will find some dumb excuse to break it and continue their genocide.

starbucks_red_cup

If Trump says go left, you should go right.
If Trump says he’s not on the Epstein list, he’s definitely on the list.
Now, if trump says that Hamas has agreed to a ceasefire l, what do you think that means. 

TheSleepingMuslim

Trump posted it, so there's a good chance none of this happened.

coolexecs

No the genocide is not over, it's just perpetually in hot-cold phases until western imperialism collapses and Israhell disappears.

TwoOwn5220

Doesnt matter if the deal goes through its literally a declaration of surrender no one should be happy about it and if israel will never fully abide by the agreement similar to what they did in Lebanon. And if the deal doesn’t go through the war will continue. So its a lose lose for the Palestinians, still cant believe the arabs and turkiye would put the Palestinians in such a situation and bless such a humiliating agreement. 
I don’t get how people in this subreddit don’t see that

Successful_Brush6502

They didn't bomb every block in Gaza, for simply to stop and return back to their bases. they want to ethnic cleanse the land. give the ceasefire 1-2 weeks, they get their hostage and start firing again to push all Gazans to Egypt.

Straight_Koala_3444

I never believe a word that comes out of that guys mouth

26_TJ

He's a liar and hypocrite Even His post deliver hidden signals of cunning "stop...so we can get the hostages safely and quickly" and then what return to genocide "this is not about gaza" about what then ? about Iran.

EnvironmentalAge5529

BS! 

I doubt they would issue a statement fully in English and this doesn’t even sound like translated Arabic text.

windycitykids

Trump be pulling the

![gif](giphy|t3KiY9mmAQHJ1pVWos)

znarhasan7101

Useful_Tomato_409

The subjugation offer was unacceptable. It was a full victory for the terrorist colony that removed the possibility of a Palestinian state. It included abominations like Palestinian extremism will be reduced through inter-religious dialog. As if Palestinians were responsible for the barbarity of the terror colony. And it never explicitly protected Palestinian rights and never clarified what would happen if Israel violated the agreement after they got their war prisoners and hostages back. Just vague statements saying it should all be alright. There can be a ceasefire but not on these conditions. And that's exactly what Hamas says on their statement.

platp

عطيتك upvote بس عشان سعودي فوق فوق

Working-Landscape374

Accomplished-Boss351

No, genocide has no pauses and israel will continue it

AJ_Misk

jds_94

there something can't be understanded . Hamas apparently didn't accept all the points , i mean indirectly from denounce of their leaders , they keep insisting only on free hostages and negotiate on others. but their tactic of separating nitanyahu from trump is seemingly succeeded .

One-Instruction-8649

No Iran and Hamas will free Palestine from river to sea for Muslims InshaAllah.

PossibleGazelle519

For those who want to know (as listed by The Times of Israel):

What are the 21 points?

The following are the contents of the plan, which have been paraphrased at the request of the sources who provided it.

1. Gaza will be a de-radicalized, terror-free zone that does not pose a threat to its neighbors.

2. Gaza will be redeveloped for the benefit of its people.

3. If Israel and Hamas agree to the proposal, the war will immediately end, with the IDF halting all operations and gradually withdrawing from the Strip.

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4. Within 48 hours of Israel publicly accepting the deal, all living and deceased hostages will be returned.

5. Once the hostages are returned, Israel will free several hundred Palestinian security prisoners serving life sentences and over 1,000 Gazans arrested since the start of the war, along with the bodies of several hundred Palestinians.

6. Once the hostages are returned, Hamas members who commit to peaceful coexistence will be granted amnesty, while members who wish to leave the Strip will be granted safe passage to receiving countries.

7. Once this agreement is reached, aid will surge into the Strip at rates no lower than the benchmarks set in the January 2025 hostage deal, which included 600 trucks of aid per day, along with the rehabilitation of critical infrastructure and the entry of equipment for removing rubble.

8. Aid will be distributed — without interference from either side — by the United Nations and the Red Crescent, along with other international organizations not associated with either Israel or Hamas.

The text of this clause appears intentionally vague and seemingly leaves an opening for the continued operation of the Gaza Humanitarian Foundation, as it technically is an American organization, even if it was the brainchild of Israelis linked to the government and was crafted to fit the Israeli government’s prosecution of the war.

9. Gaza will be administered by a temporary, transitional government of Palestinian technocrats who will be responsible for providing day-to-day services for the people of the Strip. The committee will be supervised by a new international body established by the US in consultation with Arab and European partners. It will establish a framework for funding the redevelopment of Gaza until the Palestinian Authority has completed its reform program.

This is the US plan’s first mention of the Ramallah-based PA. Israel has ruled out the authority as a potential ruler of Gaza, thereby nixing what has become the key to recruiting Arab assistance in the post-war management of the Strip, given that the international community views unifying the West Bank and Gaza under a single, reformed governing body as essential for long-term stability and peace.

The apparent decision to reserve the PA’s role for an unspecified later date will likely be a difficult pill for Ramallah to swallow, but it also has limited leverage to bear in these discussions.

Point nine appears to borrow heavily from former UK prime minister Tony Blair’s plan for ending the war, which was first revealed by The Times of Israel earlier this month.

Blair and former White House senior adviser Jared Kushner have been working on the Gaza file for months, while advising Witkoff.

10. An economic plan will be created to rebuild Gaza through the convening of experts with experience in constructing modern Middle East cities and through the consideration of existing plans aimed at attracting investments and creating jobs.

11. An economic zone will be established, with reduced tariffs and access rates to be negotiated by participating countries.

12. No one will be forced to leave Gaza, but those who choose to leave will be allowed to return. Moreover, Gazans will be encouraged to remain in the Strip and offered an opportunity to build a better future there.

13. Hamas will have no role in Gaza’s governance whatsoever. There will be a commitment to destroy and stop building any offensive military infrastructure, including tunnels. Gaza’s new leaders will commit to peaceful coexistence with their neighbors.

14. A security guarantee will be provided by regional partners to ensure that Hamas and other Gaza factions comply with their obligations and that Gaza ceases to pose a threat to Israel or its own people.

15. The US will work with Arab and other international partners to develop a temporary international stabilization force that will immediately deploy in Gaza to oversee security in the Strip. The force will develop and train a Palestinian police force, which will serve as a long-term internal security body.

16. Israel will not occupy or annex Gaza, and the IDF will gradually hand over territory it currently occupies, as the replacement security forces establish control and stability in the Strip.

17. If Hamas delays or rejects this proposal, the above points will proceed in terror-free areas, which the IDF will gradually hand over to the international stabilization force.

This is the first mention of the possibility that the deal could be at least partially implemented, even if Hamas doesn’t agree.

18. Israel agrees not to carry out future strikes in Qatar. The US and the international community acknowledge Doha’s important mediating role in the Gaza conflict.

19. A process will be established to de-radicalize the population. This will include an interfaith dialogue aimed at changing mindsets and narratives in Israel and Gaza.

20. When Gaza’s redevelopment has been advanced and the PA reform program has been implemented, the conditions may be in place for a credible pathway to Palestinian statehood, which is recognized as the aspiration of the Palestinian people.

The clause doesn’t provide details regarding the Palestinian reform program and is not definitive regarding when the pathway to statehood can be established.

21. The US will establish a dialogue between Israel and the Palestinians to agree on a political horizon for peaceful coexistence.

paleoBCofnintendo

&gt;1. Gaza will be a de-radicalized, terror-free zone that does not pose a threat to its neighbors.

They will never get past point number 1 lmfao

Cthaeh777

I'm proposing a 1 point plan to end the Gaza conflict

1. Re-establish the Kingdom of Jerusalem

-Gambler-

There should only need to be a 1-point Korea style plan: 



1. Israel on this side of the DMZ, Palestine on that side of the DMZ, and a fuck-ton of third party guns and manpower in between.

CooledDownKane

Step 1: Y'all are both grumpy because you never had a bacon cheeseburger. 20 trillion McDonald's to the Holy Land under the benevolent reign of your new British Mandatory God-Emperor Tony Blair. (Also you must accept Jesus)

Step 2: Eternal Peace

Kooky_March_7289

Trump really do be wanting this Nobel peace prize badly

AnFlaviy

There is no way Hamas is successfully following a 21-point anything unless 18 of the points involve killing Jews.

TijuanaMedicine

And that 21 point plan will be ignored by both Israel and Hamas

Longjumping_Gain_807

Waste of time for everybody involved. Palestine has received way more generous and less restrictive peace offers dozens of times over the last 80 years. They don't want peace because they are under the delusion that they can get more than they would be offered in any peace offer if they keep fighting, especially with international sentiment only continuing to shift towards their side

TouchGrassRedditor

Nothing ever happens obviously….but it would be a pretty cool for Israel and Palestine to have a Good Friday-esque agreement where it all it comes to an end.

Delicious-Food-9132

I'm not sure someone with an SS uniform would oppose Hamas.

jerdle_reddit

https://preview.redd.it/10d5pqih8yrf1.jpeg?width=750&amp;format=pjpg&amp;auto=webp&amp;s=bc2cde5ee491e3313086ccc3857139dbec744a3a

UnahzaalRochabarth

Congrats now reddit liberals will spend a week talking about how they hate trump for proposing exactly what they want, and in the end nothing will change because hamas aren't western bleeding heart liberals they are religious extremists on a crusade backed by the Palestinian people

Honestly this feels like a big fuck you to the far left "like here im offering them exactly what you believe they should want" so after they inevitably decline he can point to that to shut people up about other peaceful solutions that just push the problem off for a generation

SandRush2004

If you saw the interview with the Hamas leader on CNN, you'll realize they won't be getting past point one... 

https://youtu.be/igYQbw7zo2A?si=lP9zZ58MsVfumgw6

If you don't understand Hamas is evil, when they keep telling you who they are, then I'm going to have to assume ill intentions on your part.

PoliticalVtuber

https://preview.redd.it/0u6xbbx1ayrf1.jpeg?width=750&amp;format=pjpg&amp;auto=webp&amp;s=e590b192319cb75983d07b5d60421ea29e18b818

PhilosophicalGoof

yousuckass1122

IF trump could do this and that’s a huge if, then this would be maybe the first thing I agree with him on and I’ll give a kudos. 

However I am far too cynical and this sounds so idealistic. Point 1 especially. It reads like a wish list and it’s ahead of what should be a disastrous midterm also so something like this is very unusual. But again. If he managed it, he would deserve credit and maybe unironically a Nobel prize

recast85

Elephant in the room is left opposing it because it's Trump. 


Also is Lindsey Graham a good representative for auth right? That should be mid right, get far enough auth right and they hate Zionists just as just as lib left does.

Comet_Hero

https://preview.redd.it/okgg52402yrf1.jpeg?width=800&amp;format=pjpg&amp;auto=webp&amp;s=26d64429dcc974e3021cf8ee69cc47aa379afe7c

Th34sa8arty

MyNameIsNotKyle3

Tbh I couldn’t care less if it’s Israel or Palestine

I just don’t like Bibi or Hamas

InternalNo4355

&gt;America proposed a 21-point plan to end the Gaza conflict

Why do we keep wasting our time drawing up peace treaties between two groups that CLEARLY do not want peace. Seems like everyone living in Israel or Palestine is fine fighting to the death and who am I to stop them?

SIPR_Sipper

Hope it works there has been enough death in the world lately.

Mysterious_Bass5724

"Gaza will be a de-radicalized, terror-free zone that does not pose a threat to its neighbors."

Ok...having Hamas stopping any operation would be a thing...but how tf do you block radicalism to develop? Even developed countries fail to do it. And Palestine is like the worst place for it.

"Ok, now you guys have been leveled to the ground, here's the peace plan. Point number 1, no hard opinion about it"...

Did the person who wrote this realize how impossible it would be to apply?

Like, is it a gotcha thing where they submit a stupid plan and play outrage when other people don't follow it? Or is the white house so detached from reality they actually believe it's doable?

Yeah, i'm sure asking every guy who got a family member cut in half to not getting radical will 100% work.

ThroawayJimilyJones

Gaza will only be free if they submit to communism

QuestionablePhysics

There is no way that either side accepts this.

Chimmy_Cheesee

AbrahamLigma

Yitcolved

RYPIIE2006

I gotta wait for Dave Smith's take before forming an opinion

dieno_101

fhjftugfiooojfeyh

Plastic-Ramen

It's beautiful to dream, but no way this gets put into action

J_Strange05

"sunshines and rainbows" typa agreement 🫩

noam-_-

And just like that, Hiltons and Olive Gardens arose from the rubble in the Holy Land (tm)

Rhythm_Flunky

That you have portrayed a Nazi SS officer as a pro Israel voice makes me feel you may have possibly missed some of the finer points of nazi ideology.

BarUpper6457

None of them used the right it’s. Curious.

Outside-Bed5268


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AutoModerator

 Man I am just glad the head of Israel didnt pump money into Hamas. Could you imagine? That would be crazy!! Oh wait….. he did because he didn’t want the more centrist party in power

annacat1331

What do UN members think of this "deal"? Last time they tried to pull this didn't other nations get mad and said they should be part of the discussion? Or was that Ukraine...?

You can bet the first thing built will be a peace project tower right on the beach.

Briefly saw a map of withdrawal lines, and it looked like the permanent one went right down the middle.

Biodiversity1001

Never understood the pro Palestine side and their reluctance to hold Hamas accountable. Do you think any American wants their tax dollars spent to rebuild Gaza if it has to get filtered through a terrorist group?  If you are pro-Palestine you should aggressively call for the destruction of Hamas. The worst thing that could happen is Hamas stays in power , there is a lasting cease fire and Gaza stays hell on earth because no aid gets in or is utilized properly because Hamas controls Gaza.

Organic-Street8063

Peace is impossible when religious extremism is the dominant force in the entire region.

LordSiravant

Duh.  Hamas agrees and surrenders = peace, Hamas refuses and keeps fighting = war.

dbag3o1

Holy shit they made the map with MSPaint LOL

PiperPeriwinkle

geckiri

okay who in trumps cabinet played disco elysium recently cause brother this is just revachol and the moralintern

deathstrukk

In item 6, who are the 'receiving countries' for the Hamas members who want to leave? The countries are not listed, as far as I can read.

Who wants them?

prthomsen

This is dumb as fuck Hamas will never willingly give up their "governance" of Gaza.

Also their temporary government will be a Board of Peace headed by Trump while also including Tony Blair, what the actual fuck am I reading? They'll never agree to any of this shit. 

I thought the UK Royal meeting was about schmoozing Trump to become more pro-Ukraine but it might have also included making Tony Blair the Viceroy of Gaza.

realhotwc

haterofslimes

"Gaza will be a deradicalized terror free zone that does not pose a danger to it's neighbors"

https://preview.redd.it/2c3ejrjqt5sf1.jpeg?width=1076&amp;format=pjpg&amp;auto=webp&amp;s=e087f5e29cd7c51dc975d0265d136f296b09bf65

4-Polytope

Benica11

This is honestly the best resolution hamas/gazans can get. Seems like a decent deal, shame they won't take it.

Disastrous-Ad-9380

Tony Blair? Is this fake? I’ll wait for official confirmation 

Memnarchist

Unless this "ISF" is willing to shed blood to ensure demilitarizarion of Gaza, this won't work.

Metallica1175

*In theory,* it's not a bad plan. The ethnic cleansing of the border is a big concern, but even that could be argued to be justified. But,

1: It makes bold promises of what the neighbours will do, and I don't think they'd be convinced.

2: Hamas are very unlikely to accept it. It's definitely in Palestine's favour, but it basically says "Hamas needs to disband", which the Hamas leadership are not inclined to do, and that's before getting into the lack of mention of what the consequences would be if the IDF get violent again. ...But it is *possible* they accept it, purely since this is obviously the best deal they can get.

3: The same can't be said for the Israeli government. They have no reason to accept this. These conditions are less favourable to them than occupying Gaza, and nothing's stopping them from occupying Gaza but time.

LtLabcoat

lulzzzzz

So this is also the plan for the US too after 28....

thousandfoldthought

Who's ready to gamble and commit sin on the Gaza strip?

cyberphunk2077

I'm sure a lot of Hamas members would take this deal at this point. But what about the portion of remaining members who won't surrender? I can't imagine this will go entirely peaceful.

 Also, who the hell are taking Hamas members into their country???

Southern-Ad1310

It's actually a good plan, shame Hamas won't accept.

True_Ad_3796

How long until the “ISF” is a functional institution to step in and fulfill those aspects of the proposal? This sounds like it would take a decade to accomplish any of this, minimum.

DiscoMothra

My 2 cents, i care very little about bold plans that 1 of the sides didn't negotiate and accepted. like obviously hamas will give a "yes but" reply and most likely Israel will reject the but and then we are back to square 1. 

Hopefully im wrong but thats pretty much how it went so far

90Breeze

That's the best deal Hamas will ever get. They should take it

WinnerSpecialist

Hamas and israel be like “i aint readin allat”

M4ND0_L0R14N

Most reasonable proposal I've seen so far, but looks like a return to the status quo.  I think Stephen had it right before Oct 7 when he joked one side has to leave.  That's the solution.  Everything else just kicks the can down the road.

EDdocIN

/u/World_travelar (OP) has awarded 1 delta(s) in this post.

All comments that earned deltas (from OP or other users) are listed [here](/r/DeltaLog/comments/1mzlqam/deltas_awarded_in_cmv_there_is_no_genocide_in_gaza/), in /r/DeltaLog.

Please note that a change of view doesn't necessarily mean a reversal, or that the conversation has ended.

^[Delta System Explained](https://www.reddit.com/r/changemyview/wiki/deltasystem) ^| ^[Deltaboards](https://www.reddit.com/r/changemyview/wiki/deltaboards)

DeltaBot

The srebrenica genocide, widely recognized, even within your own post, was a massacre that occurred in a single town. At the mercy of the serb forces, the civilian population was segregated into mostly male and female. The women were sent away/allowed to escape while the men were by and large slaughtered.

So, a single settlement had only men killed (and at the time the reasoning was it was only, allegedly, military age men, who could've been fighters in disguise who have previously raided and massacred serb villages in the vicinity. Sound familiar?) yet it was recognized as a genocide. One doesn't have to solely and exclusively pursue the destruction of the group in whole where every action is dedicated towards this goal for something to be recognized as one

The scale is completely irrelevant. One doesn't even have to doggedly pursue only the absolute annihilation of a people to be classified as a genocide. We know Israel, by their own admission ,has a doctrine of treating EVERYONE outside of designated zones as a combatant who they are authorized to kill. They also treat any male over 14 years of age as of "military age" and often use that as authorization to kill.

  
And i want to demonstrate, israel, while trying to at least stay within the bounds of international law, does not really care about preventing Palestinian collateral 

Israel frequently bombs refugee camps and public spaces, even outside of gaza. Recently i believe they targeted a cafe, aiming to kill 1 hamas operative, in which they killed 30 civilians. Was this single operative of such tactical importance that it justified a 1:30 combatant civilian ratio?

Their targeting system Lavander/"Where's daddy" also has been reported to target operatives when they are at home with their families (this we also have seen during their exchanges with iran, where they targeted nuclear scientists within their homes)

Yes, israel could do more, just as the nazis could probably just have went around shooting all the jews in auschiwz instead of detaining them, using them as labor, gassing them etc, but at this point israel has an image to maintain, so they will inflict exactly as much damage to the enemy population as they can get away with

Kimzhal

You can't really look at civilian death counts and infer from that that a genocide is or is not occurring. The central thing you consider, after establishing that the actions associated with genocide are taking place, is whether there is intent to destroy the population in question. If that intent is present, then it's a genocide. Otherwise, it is not. Evaluating that can be a challenge, but the numbers aren't a great guide. After all, even a totally failed attempt at  destroying a listed group by one of the stated methods qualifies as a genocide. There is no such thing as "attempted genocide".

Anyway, the two main things I'd look at in such an evaluation are actions and stated intent. With actions, you want to ask whether a non-genocidal explanation makes sense. You can look, for example, at Israel's decision to cut off access to water. Their massive restriction on aid, up to and including shooting unarmed civilians approaching the aid. The fact that they've attacked so much critical civilian infrastructure, hospitals, schools, refugee camps, generally with some pretense of broader military purpose but usually without much in the way of supporting evidence.

With statements, you can look at [their heritage minister](https://www.jpost.com/israel-news/article-862117),  Amichai Eliyahu, saying that they want to wipe out Gaza and that all of the land will be Jewish. You can look at [Ben Gvir](https://www.sbs.com.au/news/article/who-are-ben-gvir-and-bezalel-smotrich-the-israeli-ministers-sanctioned-by-australia/7c1q8nrzv) saying that all of Gaza will be despairing. You can look at Netanyahu comparing Palestinians to Amalek, saying they plan to permanently occupy the region. There's a lot. Tons.

Take these two piles of evidence in combination, including a variety of things I did not cite, and I think the case for genocide is very strong.

eggynack

The situation in Gaza remains dire as bombardment continues amidst ongoing protests and discussions of a peace plan, with the international community anxiously awaiting a potential truce.

Gaza Conflict

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