Public sentiment is divided with significant concern over potential job losses in the Indian IT sector due to the US HIRE Act. While some express cautious optimism about the opportunity for India to bolster its domestic tech capabilities and innovate, many fear that the act will fail to prevent offshoring, leading to economic repercussions for India. The overall atmosphere reflects a cautious blend of anxiety and hope, mainly focused on the future of the IT workforce in India amidst shifting employment landscapes.

US Government

Indian IT Companies

Indian Tech Workforce

American Corporations

I agree, they need to tax/disincentivize companies from offshoring American jobs. These foreign workers don’t pay American taxes, it’s just corporate greed by c suite executives so they can buy a 4th vacation house

SweetLemonKetchup

My guess, look at who controls media and who dominates the news currently.


Trump target h1b is good, but he is also in the pockets of these big companies.


I dont expect him to mention nor push it, though I would like him to, despite my hate for him.


I also dont expect most dems or righties to push it as most of them are also in their pockets. Only a select few.


I also do not expect much coverage around it unless the people make the noise.


I expect to come and die on the floor. Its more profitable to businesses that way.


That's why you dont hear much about it.

Same_West4940

OP- I agree. If an organization is making 80% revenue in USA then it must have at least 40% jobs in USA. USA is not just a cash cow. Otherwise why anybody should live in USA any more? This BS talk that "hey we will do something more rewarding like space exploration, arms etc"...is all BS...not everybody can do that. I am paying $60 per month of internet while Global capability center(GCC) based employee(India based) just pays around INR 800(less than $10) per month. I pay $50 for cell phone while he pays only less than $5. My home insurance is around $3000 while there is no home insurance in India. Only thing i pay less is gas which is around 30% less compared to India. At the same time, GCC based employee has servants and driver for him to help him out.

HIRE act should come as soon as possible.

Icy_Outcome_1996

T-Mobile is opening new Dev Centers as we speak in Hyderabad and Pune to circumvent this law

Silver-Bumblebee5837

With how polarized American politics are, people can't admit a good policy if it comes from the other side. The HIRE act from how you described sounds reasonable

SlickRick941

How would the bill handle foreign companies, or U.S. companies that set up abroad for tax reasons? A lot of U.S. tech firms serve customers in other countries without being taxed there. So should the U.S. also tax foreign companies that build software outside the country but sell virtual services here?

Dsm02

Companies will just move their headquarters to other countries, and the US locations will become the "subsidiaries".

Gaajizard

Curious if these companies would then do exactly what cruise companies in the US do. Serve American people but have a foreign flag so they don’t have to employ US people and pay their wages.

Future_Equipment_215

It may not be getting talked about much yet because it hasn’t advanced to committee or Senate votes yet.

p001b0y

I agreed with that. Those company should tax 1000% if they move job other countries. Also beside that company CEO who are moving American job to other countries should be jailed because they are stealing American job to others country (special CEO origin country). If you see Microsoft, Google, IBM etc who CEO are Indian, are moving most of American job to India.  I know there are well qualified American in USA but because of cheap labor those companies are moving to other countries.

kid04690

As some have pointed out, the 25% tax isn't enough to push companies away from off snoring. It's more like a way for the government to get their share while companies continue off shoring.

Skaar1222

That ohio senator will commit "suicide" later

plsdontlewdlolis

Can you tell me how this offshoring works in your previous company. Do companies are shifting their locations or they are remote hiring or on H1B

Resilient-Calm

25% isn’t going to do much when they are 1/5 to 1/10 the cost overseas.

Revolutionary-Area-8

I don’t think that act will work because foreign workers can be difficult to track.  

A better solution is state and federal licensing for any positions that affect financial and information security.  Mandate they be located in the US, US citizens, etc. required testing, continuing education, etc.  

This can be done for accounting, finance, banking, customer service for sensitive info,  IT Security, etc.

The justification can be that US based workers can be prosecuted under U.S. law for violating US privacy laws, selling personal data, etc.  That would be impossible to do abroad.  

And some desperate, indebted guy in a poor nation would have no problem taking a $5k bribe to sell American data to Russia, China, etc - with zero consequences.

LilLebowskiAchiever

I think I'm missing something. Let's say I'm MegaCorp and I want to cut my IT costs. I could lay off my US employees and hire a bunch of people in India. That would run afoul of the HIRE Act. Instead. I'll lay off my US employees and hire a company in India to provide those services. Now I'm safe. Unless we're going to make it illegal to hire foreign service companies. In that case, I sell MegaCorp as a subsidiary to IrelandMegaCorp. In that case, IrelandMegaCorp, not bound by the HIRE Act, hires the service company in India. And if you try to make that illegal, I'm going to have a hard time competing with GermanUltraCorp who doesn't face the same restrictions and now has much lower costs than MegaCorp.

At the end of the day, the answer "stop competition" doesn't work. The answer always has to be "provide the best value." Otherwise, people have a huge incentive to work around your rules to get the best value. Ironically, India was the poster-child for decades for trying to block foreign competition to local industry. It's a big part of why they are so poor today.

musing_codger

Agreed. Even if it "hurts the economy some" it'll be worth it. What's the point of a booming economy if that wealth is just being hoarded at the top and we're all unemployed? 

If those people want our jobs they need boots on the ground over here. Let them suffer through our shitty cost of living.


Regarding why its not being talked about: It will obviously never happen. The billionaires don't want it, and there'd be a lot of red tape and lawsuits filed if it did get passed -- as well as difficulties from the Trump backed Supreme Court.

I feel like it would have populist support though. So it really goes to show you the disconnect between the politicians and the voters.

Trackmaster15

I hate to sound so pessimistic but it’s because the actual business owners don’t want this.

No capitalist company is going to voluntarily sign up for more regulations.

Unfortunately, depending on who is proposing that bill, it may be political theater.

Lastly, we actually should want highly successful people from other countries immigrating here to the US. We should prob adopt standards in other countries as an example to only have a “genius visa” instead of a basic worker H1B visa.

imdatingurdadben

well, how would you track that? like how can you track in software engineering jobs where the code is written from as government? do it wont work i guess

[deleted]

WeWuzGondor

Curious how that would work. Can a US company has subsidiaries and local offices in other countries? Can they hire foreign companies to work? Can US companies work on foreign contracts?

ishtar_the_move

I agree with the intent, but how would enforcement actually work? Would the government need to micromanage every company and investigate every vendor relationship? Mid-sized companies often outsource to foreign vendors or use domestic firms that rely on foreign labor, sometimes working directly on-site. For example, I worked at a company that outsourced POS QA to a third-party vendor. Not a single person we dealt with from that vendor was a U.S. citizen. These were basic jobs, pressing buttons and documenting results, that Americans could easily do. But from a tax or audit perspective, it just looked like Company A paid Company B for a service. No one’s digging into which individuals did the work or where they were located. The same goes for outsourced helpdesks and development teams. American Company A sends a check to Indian Company B, and that’s it. It’s a clean transaction on the books. 

Then you have global companies like Verizon. They’re technically an American company, but most of their support is handled overseas. Who is going to show up from the IRS to figure out which functions are performed in which country? Who gets to decide that Verizon must diversify its teams or shift its helpdesk back to the U.S., especially when they also operate retail and support centers around the world?

It’s a noble idea, but without clear, enforceable guidelines and the resources to audit this stuff properly, it’s just a feel good policy with no real teeth.

spcbl1

I never gave this any credence. He only floats threats to make deals for his personal (not the U.S.) gains. Have you noticed, not of it passes the float test... follow the money.

Deadlinesglow

ab216

Actually. I've been working with my state senator's staff on this.  We spoke last week and they liked Senator Bernie Moreno's bill at a high level but felt it lacked certain requirements.  They promised me they were going to do an outreach to Bernie's staff and try to tweak it and move it through the senate with bipartisan support.  I won't mention my state or our senator in fear he will come under fire from companies that outsource.  I will keep this board updated as things progress.

Ps.  The moderators for some reason banned me for talking about the hire act.  They are probably offshore resources who don't like me discussing it.

Also, contact your congressman and senators on this.  The more pressure you put on them the better the chance of seeing this bill happen

Pure_Piccolo_7754

We are repeating the mistakes of the past allowing companies to offshore their labor while continuing to benefit from the US market. Call and email your representatives as often as you can expressing the need to support a large tax on companies for each employee they hire out of the country. [https://www.congress.gov/members/find-your-member](https://www.congress.gov/members/find-your-member)

Act4Climate

25% excessive tax + no tax deduction sounds great to be honest

That would balance things

This administration loves tariffs, I don't understand how there are 250% tariffs in dairy products from Canada, which has been our closest ally and milk is a basic need product... And at the same time just in IT half the workforce is offshore, that's about 1.8 million IT jobs... Billions of dollars not circulating in the US and not being taxed

Caballep

I don’t think taxes or tariffs are going to work. They will always slip shit into other bills later to “fix” it. For certain government roles you have to be a citizen. We need regulations on our data here and who accesses it. Massive criminal charges for violating it. Not just for jobs, but the government has over regulated everything for decades except our information and data. I’m so tired of hearing all of this orange man bad and I’m for red or blue team crap. The entire government is against us. The Trump admin has done some things or tried to do some things I’ve been wanting for a long time. Trump’s problem is he over promises and under delivers. He has gotten better at picking people but it’s still a big problem. NOTHING will stop this. They can’t even pass a clean bill to fund the government. Congress won’t be passing ANYTHING that is in a citizen’s best interest. This cabal in Washington and central banking are the biggest criminal enterprise history has ever known.

lheckler77

This kind of legislation is the wrong answer. High value jobs are not being offshored. If they were kept domestically they would go away as well and likely more quickly. 

Nobody should be afraid of India, this doesn’t make any sense. A country that has massive mountains preventing it from being connected by land, extreme poverty, a lack of natural resources and virtually no domestic energy supply is only going as far as the US allows it.

sicknutz

CEO spoke to my team yesterday and touched on how we'll need to start using offshore resources in a year or 2 to bring costs down. I remember that at my last company I built a team of 10 designers, and after I left and the initial product was built and released they were all gradually let go. "Thanks, we got this from here." The group is now a director in the US with all but one team member located in India.  And in my experience: Paying half the cost, but getting half the quality and taking at least 3x as long.

GhostOfDino

I’ve said this for awhile. But after being laid of a year ago with 200 colleagues and our jobs outsourced to El Salvador I’ve become a strong advocate. My former company did a repeat layoff in July outsourcing more jobs with almost 500 US jobs lost on that round. The kicker was the mass email the day before we got cut thanking us for our help in exceeding sales goals and increasing the overall profit margin.

AccomplishedMenu2418

Tax it and pay more into social services for unplaced workers

BaconSlayer24

ChildhoodOdd2922

We need to fiber optic cable going to India, been saying it for years

Tall_Side_8556

Guess what? I open a wholly owned subsidiary that's based in that country and do the work I want them to do for that low low price and get the results here. Taxes bypassed.

Sharaku_US

They will replace you with a shitty AI before paying you a decent wage

Sweet_Bear_290

It's not offshoring if the company has an office in other country.

KookyPurchase5622

ATX-Hook

No one is talking about it because it is being deliberately suppressed. The more people talk about it, the more public pressure there is to actually pass it. Although, it seems like public opinion means very little these days; they'll pass and kill bills based purely on which corporate interest pays the most. What the people want doesn't even factor into the equation anymore. So even though they don't really have to suppress it, they still will. Old habits, I guess.

kryotheory

The US is a service economy now, this tariff on foreign labor is what's needed to protect US workers.  

The US isn't a manufacturing economy anymore, tariffs on goods do nothing to protect US manufacturing.

flatulating_ninja

I’ve heard the mods here ban people for talking about the HIRE act or participating in a specific other sub, but maybe that is hearsay.

DataWhiskers

My company has a bunch of entities in different countries. They pay royalty and fees to each other or something like that.

I doubt hire act would make a difference.

Besides.... I don't even know all this would hold up. After all the west was the one that forced globalisation down everyone's throat. If it wasn't so uncertain and tragic I would be curious how Other countries will react.

worried_etng

When the tech bros like Peter Thiel have their hands in alternative media (joe rogan) and mainstream media….

You likely wont see none of this covered 

Excellent-Benefit124

Do the Democrats give good reason to block this bill? Do they want to increase it from 25% to more or they suddenly become pro corporate? I can't see anyone who isn't a corporate executive wouldn't be in favorite of this bill.

Medical_Key4804

Aggressive-One-8885

I think this this is overhyped. Let's say a US company hires an Indian at $30,000 - 27LPA. 27LPA is a great salary by Indian IT standards. Now - if this tax is passed they would have to pay 25% extra - which is $6000. That's a total of $36000 for one Indian, which is far less than average American salary, let alone an American software developer salary.

damn_69_son

Well if it is not targetted towards india, it will still be worth it for companies to pay that tarrifs and continue with india, as even with the 25% indian workforce will be more inexpensive than a US based employee salary. And since it is not targetted at India, it doesn't make us any worse than before compared to other countries.

tribelord

Its simple to understand hundred thousand bills like these get put forward. The road to it getting passed is extremely long its not that easy.

RiseProfessional9792

Has this already passed, or is it just a resolution that needs to be passed?

FUCK_YOU_02

Our currency will continue to devalue and absorb some of this. For the rest since this is not targeted at India there is still no better alternative worldwide for PBC GCCs. I'd be more worried for folks in London or Zurich.

MammayKaiseHain

Looks like wages are about to decrease in USA or the profitability of the US corporations. Take a pick what happens.

lokiheed

The HIRE Act is more dangerous than tariffs because a flat 25% of tax is being imposed on any kind of outsourcing, and there is a lot of support behind it too in the US, especially from the local citizens.

If this bill is passed, it would have a drastic impact on not just SBC MNCs but also GCCs and PBCs.  
Lots of people who are just starting out or have less experience in the IT/Software industry and are yet to make their money, will not be able to earn properly and climb the latter of social mobility.

It may also wreck havoc on potentially millions of jobs of Indian employees, regardless of SBCs, PBCs, GCCs, MNCs, startups or remote jobs. Let's collectively hope and pray that this bill does not get passed.

W1v2u3q4e5

So how does this work for a large international company?

Suppose a company is headquartered in the US. They develop software and have offices in the US, UK, India, Canada, Europe, Japan, Singapore, etc. Development work happens in many of these countries, including US and you have tech-adjacent teams globally too (Sales, Client Services, Product Management, Marketing, etc.) The product is developed globally and is sold globally too. The company has clients in the UK, India, Japan, etc. The company isn’t theoretically  “outsourcing” the jobs abroad since they have formed sister companies in other countries (e.g., “Company (India) Pvt Ltd” and “Company (UK) Pvt Ltd”). 

So then, if this bill is passed, do their US sales get charged 25% tariffs? 

What if it is a Germany-based company which sells their products in the US and has teams globally? Do those US sales get charged tariffs? 

And this is a very realistic scenario. You see JP Morgan, Morgan Stanley, Goldman Sachs, etc., having their offshore offices (in India and other countries) which are their own separate entities. They are not “outsourcing” per se to an external vendor.

the_running_stache

That might as well be the end of US tech dominance of the world. Upto 1990s japan used to be number one tech giant with majority of semiconductor tech companies of the world. In order to compete and outsmart japan the US started large scale H1B, STEM OPT etc and with its global workforce they outsmarted japan and now majority of the semiconductor companies are from US. If the US does that China within 5 years will dominate tech. Of course AI impact is a wildcard here. Without massive investments in semiconductor Manufacturing India will stare at poverty again cause that is the foundation of everything digital

Careful-Round-5560

I am concerned and confused about this, too. I feel it is most likely not going to pass in Congress, and it's brought to scare India. I am in a similar position too, but I feel its still cost-effective to pay 25% extra for an Indian employee, but I am not sure how they will justify european salaries.

Long back in 2018 there was hiring pause for Ukraine workers for American companies, so at that time my company brought in a contracting company and rehired people, I know this is different case but mostly you will see some middle man coming in between to absorb the shock and things will move normally till American companies find a way out.
Also, I feel many small enterprises will move out of US. 
If this happens, there will be 2 years of uncertainty in Indian IT market, so be prepared for it.

upbeatgun3r

This seems positive for india. US companies will reduce hiring in EU, Japan. India will still remain highly cost efficient.

SnooMachines725

Its simple as trade war intensified against India by one man (POTUS). It is against globalisation which paved industrial revolution in America/ Europe countries while India contributed to Information revolution. We have to wait till next election to stabilise our relations as he is beyond cure

MidLifeCrisis_1994

I don't think corporate leaders will allow this . This would be more like a threat to make Indians agree to the tariff terms

Just_Athlete8938

Will the companies based in the US not have to quote a higher price to the client? Compared to a company based in India which can do the work for cheaper?

V413H4V_T99

Unless this directly targets India, we will still be the cheaper option.

Evil4139

Serves us right for relying on US provided jobs for too long and not manufacturing jobs within country . Nothing lasts too long and had to end soon

play3xxx1

There is no way to do this unless you impose a service tax on every country which is again not so easy.

microwaved_fully

The bill is so expansive that it'll affect every industry in the US, since literally any payment outside is a "foreign payment". This includes tricks like incorporating in Dublin (something done by Apple, Google etc). 

I'm pretty sure lobbies will work on overdrive and this will die in commitee.

unpopularredditor

US Companies will shift their base else they will be overtaken by European and Chinese Companies

oneaffidavit1

Good that this money will be used to upskill. US citizens will get better opportunities and be able to compete again. Indians can come back and help grow India. We don't need to serve but be masters at home.

venkatramanans

Coments are getting deleted as politics is involved better discuss in some other sub

My assumption :
That 25% plus salaries of foreign workers will still be less than what they would have to pay in US, the way things are.

arya0002

This bill won’t be passed as it requires 60 votes in Senate and Republicans don’t have majority but if it passes then expect mass layoffs, hiring freeze and less hikes in WITCH and other consulting firms. This won’t impact companies that have their offices in India as it is still cheaper to hire someone in India than US. Companies that have business operations in India will have the least impact and could actually end up benefiting from this policy.

redditor_1886777

If there was ever a law without loopholes, we’d already be living in a perfect world. Companies aren’t going to just swallow a 25% outsourcing penaltyy they’ll restructure, relocate, or reroute payments. No CEO is giving up their luxury cars and golf trips just to “do the right thing.” Capitalism and Socialism don’t go hand in hand.

Who actually feels the heat? Mostly fresh grads in the U.S. The wage gap between a fresher in India and a fresher in the U.S. isn’t huge anymore, so companies might lean toward local juniors. But for senior developers and management, nothing really changes. The cost advantage offshore is still too big to ignore.

So the bill looks tough on paper, but in reality outsourcing won’t die it’ll just change shape. All this if the bill is passed, I expect a strong lobby pushback coming in soon. 

Don’t loose sleep over this guys remember TACO

fluffyNotNice

Relax. No way this is getting passed. IIRC, non-budget bills require 60 votes to pass the filibuster. Republicans don't have that.

Pale_Check_6597

All of this for what? Just because we can't stop buying russian oil which not even providing benefits to us? Reliance is sucking the profits, Gadkari's son sucking the profits by adding ethanol, we are at risk ko compromising a well established sector just because government and it's capitalist friends are making money and they don't wanna stop. If we say something they'll tag us anti nationals. I don't know why but this forgien policy of this government is so bad to part with china for what? They're our direct competition, I know america is an ass at times but they uplifted more Indians than Russian combined couldn't able to do it for us.

why2chose

No need to panic. It's impossible to replace cheap Chinese electronics and Cheap Indian labours. Salary of 1 US IT employee is equal to 10 + Salary of Indian employees.

Capable-Sun8548

Whether it gets passed or not, it is high time for Indian industries and government to aggressively and rapidly build own technologies including social media, AI, datacenters, cloud, semiconductors and also sell it around the world. Even if the initial quality of these product won't be competitive, Godi media can exploit nationalist sentiment to promote Indian services and products. If not today, tomorrow something else will come which will kill India's cheap labour arbitrage based businesses. No more time to left for excuses of funding, corruption etc. Do or Die!

Ok_Profit5536

The companies would rather move their HQ out of US.

abi_hawkeye

With this ACT US companies will hire more Indians than other foreigners specially from developed countries. Some high paying outsourcing will vanish but mid to low will atill be there.
Indian companies should have created product based model till now. Their margins won't be affected anyhow.
I think it's good that India will realise over reliance on one country and will diversify.

om252345

Now that I have strated to look for international jobs so such a thing has started

Excellent_Tie_5604

Maybe just pray that dems win the midterms so shit like this never happens

ArnoldShivajinagarr

Term outsource is quite nuanced. Projects which have core development in usa because of country restrictions but are worked in other countries fall under outsourced. Projects which are completely executed in a different country falls into service export/import and not as outsourced. 

So, Projects related to govt, defense, medical, USA finance will mostly fall into the outsourced category.

And-Seven

Only this will promote Indians to build something in India rather than slaving to the west!

Ryzen_bolt

Yeah I suppose I'd be more worried about countries in the Middle Income Group like Poland, Baltic States and MENA Countries. If this bill is passed, we'd be the ones getting benefitted if not unimpacted. Paying a 25% tariff on an Indian Salary would still put the US Companies on a 3x - 4x profit margin for an average IT Employee over one sitting in Miami or LA. On the other hand, nothing would justify paying $25,000+ an additional 25% tariff to an average Joe sitting in Warsaw.

All of this is sitting behind a HUGE Curtain of IF. IF the bill gets passed on the both the houses. Not to mention a HUGE Lobby of Silicon Valley Investors who won't just sit and watch their margins vanish into uncle sam's pocket.

hriddhii

The cumulative effect of the tariff and the tax non-deductibility is somewhat around 50%. That means, every outsourced engineer is now 50% more expensive for the client with all that extra money going in govt's pocket. This will result in depression of the wages in India's IT sector for sure.

Adventurous_Ad7185

What if India also applied a retaliatory tarrif on all American products including the software.

baibhav_122003

Capitalism always wins. I'm not worried at all. In this increasingly global and interconnected world, isolation is a joke

We are in an age where you can get your salary streamed per minute on-chain and the orange man thinks services can be tariffed so easily

anor_wondo

What if they remove onshore people of America from projects to compensate those loss

Character_Two827

Bro what if they remove On Shore employee from USA and replace them with off Shore employee

Ok so many things happening in IT 🤣🤣 and corruption is india will not let u start anything of your own . We need to start dancing on tiktok

These-Bus2332

The drop of economic mobility in the United States, risk of US recession, which is on the horizon, will only accelerate when US businesses can no longer rely on available labor pools globally like the rest of the entire world, no longer able to compete, and have to hire and compete with McDonalds hiring US college grads. 

There is no readily available pool in America that can stand talking to complaining Americans. They unfortunately already shoot at each other when they disagree politically.

bravegoon

There seems to be a lot of people in this thread who are in favor of companies exploiting cheap labor as opposed to paying domestic employees.  It's really weird to see.

Denny_Thray

Is it true that if US companies hire in India before the bill goes in effect the new act won't apply?

Green-Ask-3059

And we can simply ban their companies and remove access to our market :)

twelveparsec

But why shouldn’t American companies hire Americans first. My friends and I have seen layoffs and outsourcing take our jobs. Why shouldn’t these companies be forced to hire citizens and PR holders first?

sharbarcaramel

Wait would that mean that many US MNC will become SNC -Single National Company?

strng_lurk

The current U S A  govt i can't trust They can pass

I think this would effect more for the service based companies than GCC.

National-Power3073

What if American companies list the Indian subsidiary in Indian stock market and get some revenue as fee similar to what Uniliver does?

Jolly_Librarian2610

This is scary shit ! 😮 Some people are saying this bill won't pass but we can't be sure it's very unpredictable and unstable times due to him being in power 

Crazy-Ad9266

This not just affect Indians. It affects the entire IT world. India just happens to be in the cross fire because our dependants is larger, plus our workers are more too. 

And companies wont be able to replace workers asap. They need skills, and all. So, it is better to wait and watch.

I hope this threat opens up the eyes of all the dinosaurs who were more focused on saying "Yes Madam/Sir" to the client and start their own product/service or at least divest.

pure_cipher

For once i hope this act passes and gets implemented. Indian IT needs a jolt to rejig themselves. We have become way too comfortable with what we got, refuse to innovate or produce products that can be scaled at global levels. 

All the brainpower is getting exported, just because the old school middle/senior management refuses to mend their ways.

Yes in the short term it will be a disaster but long term, indian IT is very capable to find their feet and grow exponentially from there. A blessing in disguise would be that hopefully chaos will result in change in political/bureaucratic establishments as well.

gumnamaadmi

How does this work? What happens when companies set up companies in other countries? Would they be still considered American?

TokkiJK

The proposed US Halting International Relocation of Employment (HIRE) Act aims to impose severe taxation on outsourcing, affecting India’s economic landscape significantly.

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