Public sentiment toward the COP30 Climate Summit is overwhelmingly critical, with widespread frustration regarding the perceived hypocrisy of climate leaders and the event's logistical shortcomings. Users feel that the summit serves more as a public relations exercise than a platform for genuine climate action, exacerbated by concerns over its environmental impact and inadequate infrastructure in Belém. This has led to a general sense of cynicism and disappointment regarding political intentions in tackling climate change.

Climate Leaders

Brazilian Government

Fossil Fuel Entities

Lol .. is anyone delusional enough to believe COPs are anything but dog and pony PR show where the rich goes to show off their private jets?

NyriasNeo

It's all part of the 'something is being done' illusion they sell people.

I imagine COP30 with end the way most COPs end - with a watered down package that won't go nearly as far as needed, will be recognised as such, but be shrugged off as 'better than nothing I guess'.

For a long time now COP has just become a place for fossil fuels companies to meet and swap contracts. I imagine there is probably lots of cigars being smoked, and cocaine snorted off hookers lower backs going on as well. All the while the people that actually want change are ignored while outside protesting because they're not welcome inside.

BlackMassSmoker

Hahahaha clearing parts of the world's largest carbon sink. I love that irony.

And by the way sorry to be the bearer of bad news, but it has turned into a net emitter.

VenusbyTuesdayTV

Bored_shitless123

I haven't checked if an oil minister is running the meeting this year. This is COP 30 and all of the previous COP meetings have amounted to very little meaningful action. The people that worked so hard at previous meetings years ago have all just been told NO to their proposals and recently Trump has just stood up at the UN meeting and told the world that climate change is the "New Green Scam" with little blow back in the US.

The fact that the UN let oil ministers run two COP meetings illustrates how ridiculous the whole charade has become. I feel sorry for all the hard working people that contribute to these meetings but they must also be frustrated as hell.

So what's the answer? May as well travel and party on the taxpayers dime and enjoy the ride. Not a lot of taxpayers in North America believed in climate change during the early COP meetings because they were so cleverly conned by the fossil fuel entities including the over 140 organizations associated with the Kochtopus network that were very well funded to lie to them.

There would probably not be a lot of guilt felt by people that organize and attend these meetings because they have not been successful due to the dirty, corrupt playing field and the fact that most people just didn't care in the critical early COP years when change needed to start happening.

May as well have some good times after 29 years of being ignored.

extinction6

NoseyMinotaur69

remember when they had to tear down trees to build a road through the Amazon for the summit…Real winners

Scienceman_Taco125

Because it was absolute, total BS and hypocrisy. They bulldozed and paved over 8+ miles of rainforest to host something that supposedly promoted the environment.

Fotoman54

Because the only reason a consensus was reached last time was that the industrialised world lied. They accepted the 1.5 degree target with no intention of even pursuing it.

TheDungen

Because there is a constant wave of detractors and disruptors trying to undo any positive work being done for the environment. No matter how badly it's going for the planet, the failures and the fear will always sell more.

We've reached a point where environmental action has majority support and human caused climate change is apparent in every continent. Those needing to protect their anti-environmental interests are going to batter any and all positive messages that they can.

actualinsomnia531

According to the article it's because it basically is broken. Not designed to deliver action, and partly taken over by fossil fuel interests.

SallyStranger

Like unprecedented heat dome of over plus 40 in NW Canada? Unprecedented wild fires in Canada? Atmospheric river flooding western Canada? These were all supposed to events far in the future, and we witnessed them all over the last 5 years. Not only that, but after these events our “Liberal” government has rolled back most pro climate policies in favor of job/economy stimulus. I don’t really believe that there will be an event that will change anything. It’s always going to be least cost first. Cost of living is the crisis near and dear to the average westerner, and any thing that threatens the cost of living going up is a problem, including climate change mitigation efforts. Yes, I fully understand the paradox this presents, but the average voter in our democracy doesn’t.

squailtaint

Nope. Big climate related disasters in the Global North will just result in further backsliding. Politicians will amp up the denial, claiming they’re natural disasters, and then use them as an excuse: “we can’t possibly meet these climate targets now we have to deal with these tragedies”.
I mean, do you ever see America making progress on gun laws after a mass shooting?

Away-Meal-9313

...and by then it likely will be too late. Wheeeeeeeee

DanoPinyon

rocketstopya

We got the rules based global trade system following the conflict of WW2.


We need a rules based system for climate instead of our ineffective trust based system. 


We won't get that unless we start treating the harm of foreign emissions as an act of aggression that needs to be reduced

Joshau-k

This is pure copium. There is no magical "people of the global south" that people of the global north can just ignore. We just ignore whatever doesn't align with the direction we want to be heading.

These disasters have already occured in the global north, as many point out in these comments, but when things become really bad we'll again divide the planet to the smart and the stupid, AKA the rich and the poor and we'll assume nothing bad will happen to us.

AnotherFuckingSheep

The rich North is much less vulnerable to climate-related disasters, so this is not going to happen.

Economy-Fee5830

Exactly. I remember the very early days of COVID when combating it was a bipartisan affair. Then health authorities started to stress the way it especially impacted the poor and minorities, so conservatives decided it wasn't a problem.

Suibian_ni

On the contrary I fear that climate change becoming more expensive will just lead to even less political will to pay for solutions. And it’s not even as illogical as it seems. Public funding is limited after all. 

That’s why I always try to focus my advocacy on solutions that save money instead of spending it. Or pointing out how measures can pay for themselves in the short term. 

My biggest success so far was when the local high schools gymnasium was renovated and I managed to get a majority for also installing heat insulation at the same time. It saves like 10kg CO2 per student per year. 

That was only possible because there were grants for doing so and I was willing to make the successful application for the grant a conditional for the project to convince the conservatives to vote for it. The opposition voted against out of a principal opposition to everything we were doing even though they should have been ideologically inclined to support that. Politics can be very hard.

nv87

We dealt with it in carters administration. Some people are smarter than others. I’m afraid now the momentum is against us and this might be the moment it becomes too late to recover.

benmillstein

75,000 people died in Europe from heat related deaths in 2003(?). Not much changed. Define disaster..

I mean if half the population dies then I guess emissions will be halved. I’m not sure that’s what you meant.

Xoxrocks

Uh.... much bigger disasters would be more accurate. like multicountry crop and water failure.

HappycamperNZ

It's so sad how environmental pollution is not the biggest ecological problem anymore. Such a shame because if you fix environmental pollution, you indirectly fix climate change as well...

MukiTensei

Well we're all connected so what happens when the other countries we get our food from start to get drouts that never end or monsoons that won't stop, is a food crisis not a disaster?

JP32793

So we are good. Nothing needs to be done.

Narrow_Roof_112

It will take 5-6 figure wet-bulb climate fatalities headlines in multiple countries but by then it will be far too late.

leisurechef

I’ve thought this for a long time, it will take a large number of dead white people for there to be any meaningful push for climate action.

JetFuel12

We will need much more serious disasters than a few forest fires, to make the public care. Currently, global food production is still rising rapidly, the world population still trundle upwards, the death rate is falling, believe it it not, not rising. 

Even the pandemic barely changed these figures. 

So we need serious apocalypse. I'm taking a million Torontonians bursting into flames on Fox News. Mass cannibalism, the purge, total war. If you have eaten anything in the past week, other than boot leather, then we have not reached sufficient doom yet.

ravenjohnt

Environmentalists hoping for a major disaster to bring attention to their cause… 

Sorry guys, the 2025 Atlantic hurricane season turned out to be a fizzle. NOAA predicted above normal hurricane activity, it turned out to be below normal, just five hurricanes instead of the 6-10 predicted (7 is the norm). Despite warmer waters. No hurricane this year made landfall on the United States, for the first time in a decade.

They may have to wait a while for their big disaster, the death and destruction they’re hoping for…

Significant-Ant-2487

What will it take for China to take action?

ObjectPretty

igpila

The white waterfront is a gift from Italy and it’s their repurposed pavilion from the Venice expo. No money of our own spent there.

But you’re preaching to the choir here. Nearly everyone but the organizers knew Belem was unprepared for such event. Only São Paulo, Rio and perhaps Recife have the capacity a global event of (ideally) 50k people.

I said a couple of time they should’ve had the G20, which is much smaller, in Belem and the COP in Rio, instead of the way it happened. That way you still insert Belem into the global stage without stressing it way over its capacity, and also puts the spotlight on the much forgotten Atlantic Rainforest that surrounds Rio de Janeiro. 

% wise, the Atlantic Rainforest lost a fuckton more coverage than the Amazon since it’s been exploited for 5 centuries, but it’s legitimately a unknown success for Brazil, as we are actively restoring it and expanding it in many states.

Belém was once a beautiful city, from the late 18th century when it even attracted Italian baroque artists like Giuseppe Landi, throughout the early 20th century when it was still one of the biggest cities in the country and one of the centerpiece of our belle époque due to the rubber boom. It’s been unfortunately neglected ever since the dictatorship threw all the attention and money into developing Manaus (which is still quite rough) while Belem became decrepit. 

As to why the federal government thought the couple of years until the event would be enough to remove (or at least hide) 6+ decades of mismanagement and neglect, beats me.

bauhausy

The planning of COP30 being a total shitshow has been such a constant on Brazilian news for months that I almost forgot that people coming from outside might have been surprised, haha. 

Sorry for your bad experiences! Hopefully some of the sessions, contacts and discussions will make up for the somewhat miserable experience…

ResettiYeti

Nice. Getting a sample of climate change.

Mundane_Anybody2374

The concept of “international airports” with limited international connections is not limited to Belem. See how many flights Dayton International Airport gets. The prices reflect any major event. This is just like a World Cup or Olympics, capitalists gonna capitalize.

DadCelo

The COP30 being held in Belém has been criticized for at least a year here in the country. Everybody knew it was a bad idea.

Unfortunately, the government was too proud to recognize its mistake until it was too late

DEvil2791

What a bizarre post.

I am at COP30, the aircon is absolutely fine, so no issues with temperature. There is abundant food everywhere,  I don't agree with the card system, but if you go to the "Gastronomic Zone" on the map you will find plenty of bored vendors waiting to help you. 

I have never been to Belem before. The people here are THE NICEST PEOPLE I HAVE EVER MET. I am from the east end of Glasgow, Scotland. I am used to chancers and people ripping you off. Every single person I have met in Belem has tried to help me. 

In terms of infrastructure it has been incredible, easy shuttle buses, cheap taxis. Our Airbnb is in Marambaia, it is lovely. 

I think we need more COPs in places like Belem, at the front line of climate action, and fewer in Dubai and Baku!

mexicanbandits

Maybe the point is to think about those who don't speak English 

but I think the infrastructure should be better

Sad-Cat4690

I am not attending, but based on "tribal knowledge," every Brazilian knew it would be a mess way before it started. The greed behind the massive overpriced hotels and Airbnb's is what piss me off the most tough.

However, I entirely disagree with you on one point. Your complaint about lack of English speaking people in the host city. In 2025, we've got enough technology to break any language barrier at least to deal with the basics. Using even Google Translate requires minimum effort. 

You have to remember that most people impacted by climate change are exactly the ones from what some call (disrespectfully) third world. OBVIOUSLY, they are not likely to speak your language. Complaining they don't speak English with you sounds very arrogant and inconsiderate. A sense of entitlement that doesn't fit COP'S ultimate purposes.

I'm a well travelled person, and from my experience, the language barrier is overrated. What happens is attitude and behaviour barriers. I had to deal with plenty of situations, without any technical helping, easily overcome by peoples kindness.

No-Bodybuilder-8648

I know many people who are at COP and describe exactly the opposite of what you said. They are loving it, especially a friend from Belgium and two friends who came from the UK.

AugustoPius

Well, yeah it’s hot, that’s what climate change is doing.
As for flights, it’s a small town and there’s very little demand for direct international flights, layovers are bound to happen

4n_nork

You’re not gonna thrive in the coming years as the climate crisis worsens with this attitude

misobutter3

We knew it, but couldn't say anything because that would be deemed alarmistic, anti patriotic or worse, a paid job for a right wing financier.

On the better side, it's an opportunity for reflection and to fix what's wrong about it. Maybe the Brazilian North will get better after it - and that takes both sides learning from the experience.

carribeiro

this person is lying. the ac works everywhere, speacially the blue zone (it gets cold) there are benches, water coolers and food stand every 10 meters or so. there are also plenty of toilets.

Certain-Brief-5214

It was already a given that Belém would be unprepared to host an event of this magnitude. And I love Pará, my mom is from there and grew up in Belém, but the truth is that the city is impoverished and disorganized (even by Brazilian standards) and is suffering from urban decay - the Belém metro is not even the richest part of the state. It’s like hosting a major event in the US and selecting Detroit or St. Louis as the host city. I’m sure that would not go well.

Hosting the COP30 in Belém was a political choice. The Brazilian government wanted to host the event in the Amazon, and the governor of Pará is Lula’s closest ally in the region. Manaus, which has a better infrastructure to host international events (given its status as a host city for the World Cup and the Olympics), was not selected because the governor of Amazonas is part of the opposition. And to be frank, I don’t think even Manaus would be up for the task.

joaovitorxc

We know it is a shit show

But come on, there's nothing really useful coming from there right

Elegant_Creme_9506

Sadly sums up much of the climate movement: well-intentioned people with no practical sense making bad decisions and getting in the way of their own good intentions.

Senior-Rip4551

Y'all they on Pará's throat this year! 😂

coolvideonerd

All the criticism on internal Brazilian politics aside: I know that some countries or international organizations have spoken up about the fact that the location might not have been ideal for this kind of event.

But couldn’t the international part of the organization have spoken up a bit more? Like: “hey let’s decide where we are going to do COP”. Responsible from Brazil: “I think Belém might be nice”. International: “say what now? No no, let’s do it in Rio, SP. We can do a smaller summit in the rainforest, just to make a statement”. Simple as that. (And in that statement lies the problem)

But no: bunch of internationals want to look like climate warriors while flying in on a bunch of airplanes, expecting x amounts of new construction (look at climate impact of that), fully equipped with airco (I am sure that doesn’t have any impact - sarcastic), ice cold water (where does that come from? An energy consuming foreignly created fridge) and some top class food (of which most of it is probably also not locally sourced).

Sorry, maybe the irony lays in your post. 

Wants to do a climate summit in the freaking rain forest but expects the accommodation and climate of Paris under the pretense of saving the climate (and rainforest they had had to chop down so you could have your gathering).

carrotcakeofipanema

Honestly? COP shouldn’t even have AC. You should have to sit there in the Amazonian heat and face the reality everyone who lives there does.

Sorbet_Witty

to be fair the first point is related to the objective of "addressing climate change". lol

most people here live without AC no matter how hot and humid is.

rainhadobaile

You're getting a hint of what the climate change feels like with the infrastructure of developing country.

victorhausen

Maybe not from the virtue signalling people on top but I genuinely believe the students, attendees from different non-profits and scientists from around the world actually want the conference to do well and bring a positive change. 
Unlike the rest of us these people still haven’t given up on climate.

savagesir

Água coca latão água coca lotão


Pra gringo é mais caro! 

mesinha_de_lata

Well, the airport is international because of the direct flights to Suriname and I guess one of the Guyanas.

Aggressive_Stick4107

Belém is not prepared for big events. BH, São Paulo, Rio, Brasília, Recife and maybe a few more would have been fine tho imo

PompeiiStone

Everyone knows that they held this overpriced COP in the state of Pará so that local politicians could embezzle public funds, as they always have with funds for education, infrastructure, basic sanitation, and health. They just didn't do it in Manaus because the governor of Amazonas is right-wing, a political faction different from the current president of the Republic. There, it wouldn't be possible for everyone to steal together.

Life_Fee_9163

futebinho

Yeah, I’ve seen a few people saying the same thing. It sounds like the organization really underestimated the logistics of hosting something that big in Belém. The idea of highlighting the Amazon was great in theory, but the lack of infrastructure, translation, and basic amenities kind of defeats the purpose. Hopefully this ends up being a wake-up call for future COP events to balance symbolism with practicality.

FarInvestigator9194

I am looking for some pot or wape in belem, ım here for cop, can anyone help?

Silver-Homework-7835

This post would make a great “First World Problems” meme… dude chooses to travel close to the Amazon forest and complain about being too hot and humid 🙄, also maybe the “povos originários” should have been more prepared before the event and learn some English lol

Additional_Big_5165

I'll just repeat here what I've said in another thread, for balance.

My wife is there now. She says it's fine, I told her I'd seen a few people complaining online, she disagrees with. I saw somebody complaining about lack of toilets, and water I think.  She says both are plentiful.       She also thinks that as a city, Belem is more representative of average cities around the world. She really likes the place, actually says she fell in love with it! She said it feels like it has a nice culture, absolutely lovely people.

The only slight negatives were that she mentioned were the heat/humidity, everybody is going around with a 'glow'. And the hotel she's at, she says the staff, although lovely, just don't seem to know how to deal with working in such a busy hotel. And they don't help themselves, for example she put the sign on the door saying she didn't want the room cleaning etc. But they went in and did it anyway.

All in all though, a good experience, and she felt it needed to be held somewhere like Belem, rather than Rio or Sao Paulo. She's from Rio originally, but we now live in Campinas after spending 12 years living together in the UK.

SleepShowz

I experienced the same issues last year during G20 in Brazil. They had recurring events every other months for different ministries from February until November, but problems that bogged down the events were never resolved until the last round in November when the head of states came in November. The administrative processes never improved throughout the year. With all the experience and practice. Still amazes me and makes me wonder how it can happen.

sampazinha

Oh yeah the sweet taste of vengeance, Brasil always a champion.

VomitoParasita

All COPS were ineffective in tackling climate change anyway. Even if this one was perfect, it would not deliver any meaningful result. It is a waste of money and resources since no genuine solution will come from green capitalism.

Brunno_vfc

Amazon forest felled to build road for climate summit

https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/c9vy191rgn1o

kjkjkj2

I'm one of the volunteers, working at one of the hotels. Overall the guests describe positive experiences but i do know the event has issues. 


You see, here, locally, i had the impression the initial planning was impacted by in-fight between the city government (the previous administration) and the state government. Then there's the muddled state of affairs at a federal level in which the desire for industrialization clashes with the environmentalist cause and principles the government says they're worried about.

RobotGunFromBrazil42

Useless conference. All negotiations could be handled through videoconferencing, which would also produce way less CO2. All attendees are just clowns at this point, regardless the event's infrastructure.

TimRenegademaster

It's not just COP30.  When I looked into visiting Belém for Círio de Nazare, all of the lodging was crazy expensive, often 300% above what rates at other times of the year were.

No-Pie-4076

This is like having a huge international conference in Dayton, Ohio.

SnooRevelations979

Sounds like shit. I'm sorry about your experience.

tubainadrunk

Brazilian government spent 100 million dollars in a company to organize and manage the event and it was awful anyway

real_fat_tony

kittysparkles

it actualy makes sense for it to be in a developing region of a developing country. Experience how a lot of the "non western" world is actually dealing with today's capitalism and climate change. Also being in the largest rainforest and most biodiverse region in the world probably counts for something right

Federal-Bus-3830

Don’t leave your house if you don’t have money to spend. It is what it is.

AddendumOdd5496

Oh, but they did spend almost a billion USD for this event. Corruption, plain and simple.  
  
Obviously, it wouldn't fully resolve the infrastructure issues; but a big part of the reason these issues exist in the first place is once more corruption.

At least you got to know some of Brazil with no makeup.

victor-alessandro

I understand but... It's a bit funny to be complaining about the heat at a climate change conference! This is the point! xD

bhmerger

Welcome to Brazil. And... sorry for that experience. This is Brazil...

Certain_Arm_6608

And that there's more Fossil fuel lobbyists than participants? 
https://kickbigpollutersout.org/

Living-Excuse1370

Ainda bem que eu não fui - Belém sempre foi ruim de infra.

liisto

so just uber yourself put to a hotel, everything is affordable anyways...

Haunting_Leg_7409

I don't know where you from but Belem has regular flights to and from Portugal, USA, Guyana, French Guyana and Colombia. An international airport means it can handle customs and immigration.

NefariousnessFit2902

Belém has no place hosting an event like that, the City doesn't have enough infrastructure.

Even we in Brazil know that was a shit idea to host it there in first place. And yes, I understand the appeal to have a climate conference in the Amazon, but Manaus would be a way better choice: way more hotels, bigger city with better infrastructure.

ops_caguei

When opportunists come across opportunists.

CosmoCafe777

Is incredibly frustrating. The toilet doors keep breaking apart. Many pavilions did not even have the walls built they spent over $100,000 on, on day 1 of the conference. Many areas have no AC and it is impossible to be productive. Also it is supposed to be next to the Amazon also to highlight indigenous peoples, yet indigenous Amazonia communities are protesting because they still are not being listened to. What’s the point then? I am so frustrated that the COP presidency was SO STUBBORN. Why could this not have been held in a different city in Brazil used to this amount of people like Rio?

chuusorbit

Corruption, especially in the current administration, and lack of vision and limited mentality of the Brazilian people (majority), keeps Brazil in the dark ages. Belém's airport is a disgrace, especially when you look at the size of the city. It is one of the top 5, if not the top, in the number of favela's in the country. The infrastructure is horrible. And the government, so they could pocket more money, charged trucks, kiosks, and restaurants that were installed at the meeting places, an extraordinary amount of money to operate during COP30, forcing them to really raise their prices to make ends meet. I wasn't there but I already knew it was going to be a disaster.

Lover1966

Unfortunately the Brazilian government is far, far more interested in spectacle than in being practical.

Yes they did it in Belem solely because of the optics, the COP actually functioning be damned.

Manoreded

If you are feeling mess, could you search Baku to Belem, IPCC, Global Stocktake, TFFF on YouTube music or Spotify and feel the vide of Climate Action

Confident_Dare_3380

I absolutely agree - we have to differentiate between the city &amp; people and the COP venue itself. I had an amazing experience in Belem, meeting plenty of locals, experiencing  the local food &amp; visiting the rainforest.

But: the organization of the COP itself was an absolute fuck-up. Aside from the fact that the venue was not finished in time for the event the biggest issues were:

1. The AC - in the entire blue zone only a single Pavillion (the UK one) received proper air conditioning, all smaller Pavillion or Pavillions in the main zone were at around 30°C. Most people did not stay for full days (as it was unbearable) and left either early or just arrived for the few sessions that were actually relevant before heading back to a hotel. 

2. Resting areas / actual furnishing - any cheap conference on the planet does a better job in providing an environment that stimulates conversation than COP - people were just running around aimlessly and crashing at random Pavillions. After a few hours anybody was down to just skipping the day at the hotel. 

3. General organization: finding out what talks are happening when, who is speaking and where was nearly impossible (aside from the fact that agendas was published with nearly no lead time there was no overall structure to it aside from a huge website where you could scroll for years instead of a simple app where you could actually navigat talks by topic, pavillions, time or speaker)

5. Transport: while the bus system worked great (as long as you memorized the stops and monitored it on google maps because there were not announcements or displays) figuring out where it would be possible to grab a cab/uber was as impossible for participants as it was for the drivers themselves - road closures changed daily and it took me sometimes 30m walking from the blue zone until I found a location that worked (people were too late for off-site meetings all the time)

4. A few smaller points (inadequate screens for plenary sessions etc, nobody was actually able to read what was displayed etc)

All in all:

- I had a great time in Belem and made new Brazilian friends
- I am thoroughly disappointed about the conference itself - based on the factors above it was not really a valuable experience that helped made valuable connections

EDIT: I read a little further in the thread - I truly get all the “people should suffer without ac to experience what the locals have to live with” - but: the people attending cop (at least the ones I met) come with good intentions to actually move the needle (even if the actual results are mostly disappointing for a plethora of reasons)

Still: COP is not a “climate change experience event”, its a conference that should be used to work on actual results - and the actual Conference setting did not provide a good work environment

Toud_1

Don't worry, it couldn't possibly get worse!

souleboi

This is an overreaction and I can back up with evidence 

source: at COP30

dominashe

Tell that to the great president Lula 😂 the event is being hosted there so they could orchestrate new corruption schemes while building “infrastructure” for the event. It was very obvious for any Brazilian that the event would be a total failure. Im sorry you’re having a bad experience though.

TallAdhesiveness2240

We ran cop30 on the cheap side of our budget, expending no more than 600 millions dollars so far we made what we could to give everyone the best experience ever.

Ps: Lots of sarcasm in the paragraph above, the whole cop30 is nothing more than a show to give money to some friends of the government and nothing else.

Civil-Assumption-664

Best way to describe it: this is Brazil. Beautiful, rich in resources and natural beauty and charm BUT awful administration. The structure is light years behind the United States.

  
edit: grammar

Visible_Photograph86

sovereigndeveloper01

Not surprising. Conservatives will harm anything for $1 in revenue.

SweaterJaguars3034

And the rest of the world will move on without the US

as they should

Tmon_of_QonoS

I wonder if a handful of blue states can get together and send their own representation?

joshul

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